Why is there no proof that Humans and Dinosaurs co-existed?

I read your link! Wow India is so corrupt now! But let me tell you something if anyone lays a hand on that bridge, there is going to be war like the world has never seen before. Dredging the bridge will cause religious upheavel and will lead to a nuclear war definitely. The people will revolt against their governement and there will be massive violence because Rama is one of the main Gods of the Vedic Religion. The people will not let this bridge be harmed because it is a religious symbol and the Bridge Lord Rama built over 2 million years ago. The reason that the rocks float is because He put his name “Rama” on each one. Otherwise they would have sunk. They will not harm the bridge. NASA claims that the bridge is not manmade but Western Civilization is biased. I say that America didn’t go to the Moon and that its all (censored) and they say The Vedas and the Vedic Civilization are false, so whatever. One side there are the atheists such as Nasa and the Western Civilization and then there is the Vedic Civilization which is 100 percent true.

toadly said: “Hamm is much better than Hovind. Although I certainly disagree with him and find his approach horribly flawed, he’s not a horse’s a… donkey like Hovind.”

“… I almost forgot to mention that in addition to being in prison, Hovind’s credentials are also bogus. Hamm is honest in that regard.”

I do not know this Hamm you speak of nor do I care to, especially if his approach is “horribly flawed”

Insulting people on this site is one thing…at least they can defend themselves, but to insult people who are not here and no way to defend themselves is very low.

Give me references to what you claim to be so. I would like to decide for myself if what you say about Dr. Kent Hovind is true or false. Personally, I do not believe it for one second.

I have watched many videos he has made and he is a good Christian man doing what needs to be done for the Lord.

These good Christians who are in the ‘lime-light’ are the ones Satan attacks most. I believe Dr. Kent Hovind is one of these.

FYI, Dr Kent Hovind was accused on trumped up charges of tax evasion, which are completely false.

He is a well-educated Christian man who intimidated many university evolutionist professors , because they just couldn’t prove him wrong. He loved getting invitations to speak to those who bated him on creation vs evolution…he would always win hands down…LOL!

The Bible tells us that in these last days, which we are in now, that many true Christians will be in prison on false charges, and Dr. Kent Hovind is one such Christian.

God has His purpose for allowing this to happen. Maybe it is that Dr Hovind will reach many and give hope to those who are incarcerated with him. And when Jesus Christ’s second coming is here, Dr. Kent Hovind will be with the saints going to heaven. AMEN!

In response to: If, as some people think (mostly Christian), that the earth was created in 7 days, would some one be so kind as to explain why the was and is no evidence of humans and dinosurs co-existing? Also, if there WERE dinosaurs, why did they just not get on Noah’s ark, since god told Noah to gather 2 of EVERY animal, not just some? If there is no such thing as evloution, why do we have elephants today and not still have wolly mammoths, since that is where elephants EVOLVED from?

Fist of there is evidence of Human fossils billions of years old. Read books by a great Scientist named Michael Cremo. The books that might interest you are Forbbiden Archeology, The Hidden History of the Human Race, and Human Devolution. All these books discuss Human fossils found which date billions of years. Another thing is that in most advanced civilizations like the Vedic Civilization the Human body is burned after death, and the ashes are thrown in the ocean. The animals are not burned so you will see fossils. Another thing is that the Vedic Civilization was the only Civilization that existed over 65 million years ago so you won’t see any Human bones, since the Vedic civilization burns the Human body to ashes and throws it in the ocean at death. In fact the Vedic Civilization is the only civilization that has existed until around 4.5 million years ago. The Vedic Civilization is the only existent Human Civilization that existed more than 4.5 million years ago, so you won’t find human fossils more than 4.5 million years old. You should read those books my Michael Cremo. Hope it helped.

The lamb had to be pure white, without spot or defect to be countable as a sacrifice for sins under the old covenant. The old covenant pointed toward Christ’s birth. The new covenant points to the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Jesus was born on earth to show us the way to the Father by His character, love, and teachings. While on earth He healed the crippled, gave sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf. He raised the dead and fed thousands on just a few fish. He worked miracle after miracle all for evidence that He was who He said He was and because of His true love for us; His children.

Jesus knew even before He came here that He’d have to go thru awful torment, pain, and separation from God, but He was willing to do it to save as many as He could from the grips of Satan.

Yes, Jesus knew He would be a sacrifice for us; for our sins He took away and gave all that loves Him eternal life.

Praise You, Lord God Almighty!

arachnid, why do you go about causing trouble for Christian? Do you hate God that bad? Why can’t you just allow people to believe what they do without purposely picking apart every word they say? I stand by my comment.

He ensures His Holy Words in at least one version. The KJV is the best in my “opinion”. I am sure there are others in other languages that may be the same or better than the KJV, but I am American and I speak only one language AND the KJV is English. Now do you understand? It is really pretty simple…

orion: I’m not trying to challenge your belief in god, I’m challenging what you do when it interferes with common sense. Science can prove how old the earth is, and that humans and dinosaurs are not contemporaries beyond a reasonable doubt. Science is not guesswork; it’s only science if it’s testable and can be disproven.

As far as I can tell, the only reason you seek to discredit these things is because the conflict with your religious beliefs. If you don’t want to believe them, fine, I don’t care what you believe, but don’t try and pretend there is credible scientific evidence in your favor.

“arachnid said ‘Logical conclusions require solid evidence to back them up (biblical testimony and feelings don’t count)’

What? you think this is your game? ‘my game, my rules’ I don’t think so. LOL!”

Sure, you can define a ‘logical conclusion’ however you like, but unless it overlaps with what the rest of the world believes that to mean, you’re not going to have a very meaningful conversation. Most of the rest of the world understands that a “logical conclusion” needs something to back it up, not just what you think is the case; otherwise it’s just a belief.

“I’m going to throw out your rules and accept into evidence the holy word of God. It is solid evidence of a Super Intelligence who created our world, us and everything you see and don’t see.”

The problem with that is that your reasoning is circular. God exists because the bible says so. The bible is accurate because god exists. It may convince you, but those of us who aren’t already believers, it’s not very convincing.

arachnid:

Look, it really doesn’t matter to me what you think or believe, that’s between you and God, but as for me and my house we will serve the Lord :)

You see, I don’t have to prove to you God exists. It is up to each one of us to choose our destinations. We either go up or down…I’m going up.

Nobody can prove God to anybody that doesn’t want to know Him. It is impossible. You know why? It is because to believe in God you first have to deeply desire sincerely to know Him. A person has to seek Him diligently. If there is no desire to know Him, don’t worry, you won’t.

Science cannot prove how old the earth is or how long ago a dino walked this earth, or that there was a big bang that created us and our world. It is pretty much guess work. The Bible, on the other hand, does know these things because God our Father created everything.

arachnid said “Logical conclusions require solid evidence to back them up (biblical testimony and feelings don’t count)”

What? you think this is your game? “my game, my rules” I don’t think so. LOL! ;)

I’m going to throw out your rules and accept into evidence the holy word of God. It is solid evidence of a Super Intelligence who created our world, us and everything you see and don’t see.

You can pick one up at any Christian book store, online, or at a Goodwill. They are all over the place. I suggest that you take some time and read one. It’ll open your eyes.:)

“Science has done many good things and helped cure illnesses and such, but when it comes to God they don’t know what they are talking about, and neither do you.”

How long ago the earth came into existence, and what species have existed on it at what times is not a question of ‘god’, it’s a question of history. Can you please explain why science should be so good at explaning everything else, but mysteriously be impotent when it comes to anything that might conflict with your beliefs?

“The only logical conclusion possible is that a Super Intelligence creatored us and our world, and if you have a problem with accepting that, well, then it ‘s your problem.”

It’s neither a logical conclusion nor the only conclusion. Logical conclusions require solid evidence to back them up (biblical testimony and feelings don’t count), and just because it’s the conclusion you’ve come to doesn’t mean it’s the only conclusion.

And threats of eternal damnation are only scary if you already believe there’s an afterlife. Not to mention scaring people is a really crummy way of trying to make your point.

You do know you can get all the answers to this just by doing some research,(google, yahoo, wiki..ect) dont you? Of course you do. You just want to start some sort of pseudo confrontation in which you picture yourself the victor. That’s very cute. =)

&& FYI: 6 days not 7

human sacrifice ???

rnealw: That entire page consists of nothing but appeals to “common sense”, as if it trumps everything else. Just because something is unintuitive doesn’t mean it’s false, and likewise, just because something is obvious doesn’t mean it’s true. The author of that page doesn’t actually use any solid knowledge of archaeology or geology, just what’s “obvious”.

I particularly like the photo that shows someone standing next to one of the prints. Compare the size of his shoe to the size of the prints. Just how big were these people?

The use of the invented term “evolutionists” is deceptive, too. It implies the same level of dogmatic belief in evolution that religious people have in their religion - belief without evidence or reason. In reality, the correct term is “scientists”. Credible evidence that cast aspects of evolution into doubt would be leapt upon by scientists - at least some of them - because publishing something that revolutionary can make a scientist’s career, ensuring them a name in the history books and funding for a long time to come. While individual scientists may be set in their ways, there’s always scientists whose best interest is in challenging theories, and the lack of such challenges says something.

Ok, I’ll debunk the first item. That’s enough to demonstrate the entire page is typical Creationist propaganda.

“Human & Dinosaur Fossils. Human bones and tools coexist in the same fossil layers as dinosaur bones in Texas and the Dakotas.”

Patently misleading The only place in Texas where Creationists make this claim is in regard to the Paluxy riverbed. No human bones have been ever found there. The only things that HAVE been found there are dinosaur footprints that everyone agrees are dinosaur footprints, and dinosaur footprints that creationists claim are the prints of 12 ft tall humans with extremely long skinny feet and an imaginary big toe. It’s crazy talk.

The other thing that has been alleged to be found is a hammer. However, the guy that found it is the owner of the ‘Creation Evidences Museum’, and won’t let anyone examine it. It looks like a 19th century era hammer COMPLETE WITH WOODEN HANDLE that does not appear to be fossilized. In other words, it’s just a hammer someone lost when these prints were first being excavated!

Have you ever wondered why Christians don’t come at you with more firing power when challenged by non-believers on sensitive topics like evolution vs creation? Why it seems they just ‘give up’ or ‘cave in’? I will share with you my version of why I believe this is so.

I do not feel the need to ‘win’ the discussion. When you know God, there is no need to argue with those who do not. It serves no purpose.

Jesus came here to do one thing; to save as many of us as He could by showing His deep love for mankind. We as Christians are to tell others about God and His perfect sacrifice. But those who don’t want to believe in Him will never listen no matter how convincing it is. Only the searching ones can be saved.

Christians do not need to put up fact for fact like those who believe in evolution or big bang theory. If you studied how the human body functions, you couldn’t possibly miss the God-connection; you will only be scratching the surface of our Creator’s brilliance.

When I see the great knowledge you put forth to prove your point-of-view, I don’t really see the brilliance, I see lost people basing their whole eternity on prideful, false beliefs derived by man, not based on God. It hurts to think of so many brilliant minds captured and being used by Satan.

I back off and allow you to talk your mighty talks, put up your impressive proof, state your facts; and take your insults. If I were to try to tell you about God, you would only shout me down by all your facts…proofs and such; I don’t want to fight. I’ll step aside and allow you to go our way, head-long into whatever path you are charging. I can do nothing less.

My hands are tied by your cords of unbelief. No matter how intelligent my thoughts, eloquent my words, how loving my countenance, or sweet my expressions may be, your mind is set and nothing I say or do will discourage you from what you perceive to be true…so, I remain quiet.

My attempt to help you to understand why Christians are passive (some less, some more) on controversial subjects (like evolution vs creation) is a feeble one, but I hope you can understand what I’m trying to say.

Eternity goes on forever, so I want to encourage you to spend (just a little) time seeking God; you may accidentally find Him.

“The fossil records do not support the theory of evolution. There are no transitional fossils in between species. From apes to man, Raptor dinosaurs to birds etc… That is why evolution is still a theory not a fact.”

Argh. How many times does this have to be debunked? There are plenty of transitional fossils. The problem is that every time you present a newly discovered transitional fossil to an evolution denialist, they say “Ha! Now there’s 2 gaps instead of 1!”. No matter how many transitional fossils there are, there’ll always be gaps.

“Perhaps God put dinosaur bones directly into the ground with out them having lived at all. “

Now that is perverse. You’re saying god deliberately constructed the world with contradictory evidence to make it look older than it is (shades of Terry Pratchett’s “Strata”, anyone)? What possible reason would he have to do that? Why deliberately introduce evidence that casts his version of events into (further) doubt?

“Just because it hasn’t been scientifically proven that humans and dinosaurs once ‘co-existed’ doesn’t mean it’s been disproven. Scientists have no real reason to suspect they DIDN’T live around the same times, other than the fact that there’s no real evidence to suspect that they DID.”

Yes they do. Carbon dating supports it, amongst other things.

Read this:

Dinosaur Extinction: The Evidence

Human & Dinosaur Fossils. Human bones and tools coexist in the same fossil layers as dinosaur bones in Texas and the Dakotas. Human & Dinosaur Footprints. Footprints of dinosaurs, humans and other mammals coexist in the same fossil layers in Texas and New Mexico. Native American Petroglyphs. Cave and cliff drawings in Utah and Colorado crudely depict certain dinosaur species (dated from 400 A.D. to 1300 A.D.). Ica Stones. Ceremonial burial stones discovered in Ica, Peru depict numerous species of dinosaurs, some in activities with man (dated from 500 A.D. to 1500 A.D.). Acambaro Figurines. Ceramic and stone figurines discovered in Acambaro, Mexico represent many species of dinosaurs (dated from 800 B.C. to 200 A.D.). Dragon Accounts. China, Europe and the Middle East share similar accounts of “dragons” and other beasts. Some cultures revered these creatures. For instance, records of Marco Polo in China show that the royal house kept dragons for ceremonies. In other cultures, it was a great honor to kill these beasts. There are numerous records of warriors killing great beasts in order to establish credibility in a village. Behemoth, Leviathan and the Dragons of the Bible. Job writes of great creatures, Behemoth and Leviathan, nearly 4000 years ago. Although more recent Bible translations use elephant, hippo or crocodile instead, the original Hebrew does not allow for these interpretations. The word “dragon” (Hebrew: tannin) is used numerous times in the Old Testament, and most directly translates as “sea or land monsters.” Gilgamesh, Fafnir, Beowulf and other Legends. Many famous legends, including the mythology of Egypt, Greece and Rome, include specific descriptions of dragons and other dinosaur-like creatures. Dragons in Ancient Art. Dinosaur-like creatures are featured on Babylonian landmarks, Roman mosaics, Egyptian burial shrouds, and many other pieces of art throughout the ancient world. Current Legends & Discoveries. There is a huge and credible legacy of sea, lake and swamp “monsters,” even to this day.

So Are you now claiming to be bible scholar? I don’t but I do understand the simple facts of the bible. I suggest to buy matthew henry’s commentary on the whole bible. . . from MHC: Gen 32:24-32
We have here the remarkable story of Jacob’s wrestling with the angel and prevailing, which is referred to, Hos_12:4. Very early in the morning, a great while before day, Jacob had helped his wives and his children over the river, and he desired to be private, and was left alone, that he might again more fully spread his cares and fears before God in prayer. Note, We ought to continue instant in prayer, always to pray and not to faint: frequency and importunity in prayer prepare us for mercy. While Jacob was earnest in prayer, stirring up himself to take hold on God, an angel takes hold on him. Some think this was a created angel, the angel of his presence (Isa_63:9), one of those that always behold the face of our Father and attend on the shechinah, or the divine Majesty, which probably Jacob had also in view. Others think it was Michael our prince, the eternal Word, the angel of the covenant, who is indeed the Lord of the angels, who often appeared in a human shape before he assumed the human nature for a perpetuity; whichsoever it was, we are sure God’s name was in him, Exo_23:21. Observe, I. How Jacob and this angel engaged, Gen_32:24. It was a single combat, hand to hand; they had neither of them any seconds. Jacob was now full of care and fear about the interview he expected, next day, with his brother, and, to aggravate the trial, God himself seemed to come forth against him as an enemy, to oppose his entrance into the land of promise, and to dispute the pass with him, not suffering him to follow his wives and children whom he had sent before. Note, Strong believers must expect divers temptations, and strong ones. We are told by the prophet (Hos_12:4) how Jacob wrestled: he wept, and made supplication; prayers and tears were his weapons. It was not only a corporal, but a spiritual, wrestling, by the vigorous actings of faith and holy desire; and thus all the spiritual seed of Jacob, that pray in praying, still wrestle with God. I. What was the success of the engagement. 1. Jacob kept his ground; though the struggle continued long, the angel, prevailed not against him (Gen_32:25), that is, this discouragement did not shake his faith, nor silence his prayer. It was not in his own strength that he wrestled, nor by his own strength that he prevailed, but in and by strength derived from Heaven. That of Job illustrates this (Job_23:6), Will he plead against me with his great power? No (had the angel done so, Jacob had been crushed), but he will put strength in me; and by that strength Jacob had power over the angel, Hos_12:4. Note, We cannot prevail with God but in his own strength. It is his Spirit that intercedes in us, and helps our infirmities, Rom_8:26. 2. The angel put out Jacob’s thigh, to show him what he could do, and that it was God he was wrestling with, for no man could disjoint his thigh with a touch. Some think that Jacob felt little or no pain from this hurt; it is probable that he did not, for he did not so much as halt till the struggle was over (Gen_32:31), and, if so, this was an evidence of a divine touch indeed, which wounded and healed at the same time. Jacob prevailed, and yet had his thigh put out. Note, Wrestling believers may obtain glorious victories, and yet come off with broken bones; for when they are weak then are they strong, weak in themselves, but strong in Christ, 2Co_12:10. Our honours and comforts in this world have their alloys. 3. The angel, by an admirable condescension, mildly requests Jacob to let him go (Gen_32:26), as God said to Moses (Exo_32:10), Let me alone. Could not a mighty angel get clear of Jacob’s grapples? He could; but thus he would put an honour on Jacob’s faith and prayer, and further try his constancy. The king is held in the galleries (Son_7:5); I held him (says the spouse) and would not let him go, Son_3:4. The reason the angel gives why he would be gone is because the day breaks, and therefore he would not any longer detain Jacob, who had business to do, a journey to go, a family to look after, which, especially in this critical juncture, called for his attendance. Note, Every thing is beautiful in its season; even the business of religion, and the comforts of communion with God, must sometimes give way to the necessary affairs of this life: God will have mercy, and not sacrifice. 4. Jacob persists in his holy importunity: I will not let thee go, except thou bless me; whatever becomes of his family and journey, he resolves to make the best he can of this opportunity, and not to lose the advantage of his victory: he does not mean to wrestle all night for nothing, but humbly resolves he will have a blessing, and rather shall all his bones be put out of joint than he will go away without one. The credit of a conquest will do him no good without the comfort of a blessing. In begging this blessing he owns his inferiority, though he seemed to have the upper hand in the struggle; for the less is blessed of the better. Note, Those that would have the blessing of Christ must be in good earnest, and be importunate for it, as those that resolve to have no denial. It is the fervent prayer that is the effectual prayer. 5. The angel puts a perpetual mark of honour upon him, by changing his name (Gen_32:27, Gen_32:28): “Thou art a brave combatant” (says the angel), “a man of heroic resolution; what is thy name?” “Jacob,” says he, a supplanter; so Jacob signifies: “Well,” says the angel, “be thou never so called any more; henceforth thou shalt be celebrated, not for craft and artful management, but for true valour; thou shalt be called Israel, a prince with God, a name greater than those of the great men of the earth.” He is a prince indeed that is a prince with God, and those are truly honourable that are mighty in prayer, Israels, Israelites indeed. Jacob is here knighted in the field, as it were, and has a title of honour given him by him that is the fountain of honour, which will remain, to his praise, to the end of time. Yet this was not all; having power with God, he shall have power with men too. Having prevailed for a blessing from heaven, he shall, no doubt, prevail for Esau’s favour. Note, Whatever enemies we have, if we can but make God our friend, we are well off; those that by faith have power on earth as they have occasion for. 6. He dismisses him with a blessing, Gen_32:29. Jacob desired to know the angel’s name, that he might, according to his capacity, do him honour, Jdg_13:17. But that request was denied, that he might not be too proud of his conquest, nor think he had the angel at such an advantage as to oblige him to what he pleased. No, “Wherefore dost thou ask after my name? What good will it do thee to know that?” The discovery of that was reserved for his death-bed, upon which he was taught to call him Shiloh. But, instead of telling him his name, he gave him his blessing, which was the thing he wrestled for: He blessed him there, repeated and ratified the blessing formerly given him. Note, Spiritual blessings, which secure our felicity, are better and much more desirable than fine notions which satisfy our curiosity. An interest in the angel’s blessing is better than an acquaintance with his name. The tree of life is better than the tree of knowledge. Thus Jacob carried his point; a blessing he wrestled for, and a blessing he had; nor did ever any of his praying seed seek in vain. See how wonderfully God condescends to countenance and crown importunate prayer: those that resolve, though God slay them, yet to trust in him, will, at length, be more than conquerors. 7. Jacob gives a new name to the place; he calls it Peniel, the face of God (Gen_32:30), because there he had seen the appearance of God, and obtained the favour of God. Observe, The name he gives to the place preserves and perpetuates, not the honour of his valour or victory, but only the honour of God’s free grace. He does not say, “In this place I wrestled with God, and prevailed;” but, “In this place I saw God face to face, and my life was preserved;” not, “It was my praise that I came off a conqueror, but it was God’s mercy that I escaped with my life.” Note, It becomes those whom God honours to take shame to themselves, and to admire the condescensions of his grace to them. Thus David did, after God had sent him a gracious message (2Sa_7:18), Who am I, O Lord God? 8. The memorandum Jacob carried of this in his bones: He halted on his thigh (Gen_32:31); some think he continued to do so to his dying-day; and, if he did, he had no reason to complain, for the honour and comfort he obtained by this struggle were abundantly sufficient to countervail the damage, though he went limping to his grave. He had no reason to look upon it as his reproach thus to bear in his body the marks of the Lord Jesus (Gal_6:17); yet it might serve, like Paul’s thorn in the flesh, to keep him from being lifted up with the abundance of the revelations. Notice is taken of the sun’s rising upon him when he passed over Penuel; for it is sunrise with that soul that has communion with God. The inspired penman mentions a traditional custom which the seed of Jacob had, in remembrance of this, never to eat of that sinew, or muscle, in any beast, by which the hip-bone is fixed in its cup: thus they preserved the memorial of this story, and gave occasion to their children to enquire concerning it; they also did honour to the memory of Jacob. And this use we may still make of it, to acknowledge the mercy of God, and our obligations to Jesus Christ, that we may now keep up our communion with God, in faith, hope, and love, without peril either of life or limb.

You mean the prints talked about here? http://www.sciencevsevolution.com/humanfootprintsatthepaluxy.html It is obvious that this track was not carved at all. It is common sense that when a person is walking in mud unshod the mud will squeeze up between the toes like this print. You can tell just by looking at it that there is no evidence of carving on this print. Here is something else to think about when a person is unshod running in mud sometimes when the person lifts his foot up there will be a vacuum so mud will be forced back into the print as the person lifts his foot from the mud, therefore an obscure print will be made.

These prints that were made in the limestone had to solidify quick or they would have eroded away very fast. This gives strong evidence that there was a high concentration of minerals in the mud and water then what we find today in mud made by most flood waters.

Here is the bottom line. The evolutionists cannot accept the idea that there are human footprints with dinosaur footprints. If they ever admitted to that, it would destroy the evolutionist time table called the geologic column. Yes it’s a cut and paste job. . . .

* I’m not claiming to be a Bible scholar, but from what I can see, I know more about it than you do.

I really doubt that , besides if you knew more you would believe. I understand the Bible was written in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic and translations are made by Groups ( 20 or more) of Scholars who after translating would put it before a group for approval these groups and Scholars consist of individuals from differant churches. I use to be pretty good with Biblical greek but I’ve fallen out of practice with it. And Arachnid, English wasn’t even a language at the time the Bible was written. . . A lot of your newer version will tell about the translation proccess in the preface located in many of the nicer Bibles.The people doing the translations are not simple hicks and morons they are Mostly linguist and hold Doctoral Degree and Professional Degree they are very educated people. . . I TRUST THEM. . . .

bbb, “Okay I will give you some proof. NASA through its use of satellites has found evidence of the bridge to Sri Lanka that was built by Lord Rama over 2 million years ago.”

What I don’t get, is if you believe the space program is a lie, then how can you accept evidence produced by it?

bbb: I’m not interested in some society that exists now - I’m interested in seeing evidence (any sort of artefacts, for example) of a civilisation you claim existed for over 60 million years. It’s not a big ask.

Also, please stop cross-posting your answers to my profile.

To Arachnid: How can you say the Vedic Civilization doesn’t exist when as of today in 2008 it still exists. It is called ISKCON (The International Society for Krishna Consciousness). Are you saying ISKCON does not exist?

It is pretty easy to find info about the Verdic Civilization. Just type in ‘vedic civilization’ and hit Search.

http://www.indianetzone.com/2/vedic_civilization.htm

bbb: Popular books don’t count as evidence. If you can point to refereed articles in respected scientific journals, I’ll be more convinced.

Also, if this “vedic” civilisation existed for so long, why is there absolutely no evidence of its existence? And absent any evidence, why should we believe it existed?

Hamm is much better than Hovind. Although I certainly disagree with him and find his approach horribly flawed, he’s not a horse’s a… donkey like Hovind.

… I almost forgot to mention that in addition to being in prison, Hovind’s credentials are also bogus. Hamm is honest in that regard.

orion, haven’t you heard? Everyone in prison is innocent.

Actually some are innocent

I was just reading Dr Kent Hovan’s (Creaton Science Evangelism) book on Dino’s Today. Very fascinating to say the least!

He has thousands of quotes, pictures and interviews (he has done) from people all over the world who have seen first hand dinosaurs of all kinds over the last century up to today.

You can order his books, videos and such from: dino@drdino.com

…so, orion confirms that it was indeed a human sacrifice. rneal, why do you disagree with that?

Okay I will give you some proof. NASA through its use of satellites has found evidence of the bridge to Sri Lanka that was built by Lord Rama over 2 million years ago. It is currently submerged underwater but still intact. NASA has now confirmed the Vedic Civilization of the bridge from India to Sri Lanka over 2 million years old. Is that evidence?

The Bible was written by Godly men chosen by God Himself to write His holy Book. God is a big enough God to make sure His Word is exactly as He wants it to be.

Time for bed, good nite. Until tomorrow, God bless ya all, yes even you toadly.

“And Arachnid, English wasn’t even a language at the time the Bible was written.”

That was exactly my point, and yet somehow you attributed meaning to the capitalisation of the word ‘god’ in a specific passage as if it was concrete evidence of the intention of the original authors.

Orion, it’s not slanderous to call a person in prison for fraud a charlatan, it’s a statement of fact. He already had his chance to defend himself, and he was found guilty.

In regards to his phony credentials, why would you task me to prove it? If you’re taking this man as an authority, it’s your job to verify he knows what he’s talking about. You obviously haven’t bothered to do that, so I’m not particularly interested in doing your legwork for you.

If a representative of Hovind wants to come on here and claim his theology degree from a degree mill entitles him to refer to himself as “Dr.”, and qualifies him to discuss natural sciences authoritatively, they’re welcome to do so. The guy is certifiable. All he does is build strawmen. Basically, every aspect of his life is a lie.

Was there any point in copy and pasting the entire contents of a page you already linked to, without paragraph breaks?

And I’m inclined to agree with Toadaly. If you believe english is what the bible was written in (and presumably what was spoken), you really need to brush up on your bible knowledge.

bbb: And I just pointed out that books in the popular press don’t constitute evidence; or may I take the Lord of the Rings as evidence that elves exist?

My original question stands: If this mythical civilisation existed for so long, why is there absolutely no physical evidence of its existence? Seriously, 65 million years and not a single physical artefact? And, without invoking conspiracies, is this “Michael Cremo” the only person touting its existence?

rneal, here’s a secret I’ll share with you regarding the Bible, you are reading a relatively recent English translation. There are no capital letters in Hebrew.

To Arachnid: I just told you where you can find evidence of the Vedic Civilization. Another thing is that what evidence are you looking for? People beleive in ridiculous nonsensical theories such as Evolution and the Big Bang when there is no proof because nobody can tell me how the Big Bang started and what created it. No physical force would have been able to create the Inflation so, we know the Big Bang Theory is False. Anyways what evidence do you want. I already gave you some. The Vedic Civilization existed, the logical reason for that is that if the Vedic Civilization never existed then why do we currently have a Vedic Civilization today such as ISKCON and such? Unless you are denying that I exist? If you are denying that I exist you might want to take your pills.

* I’m challenging what you do when it interferes with common sense. - or seeking to CONVERT nother way of thinking Um. . . . . Jacob wrestled with the Angle of God not God himself. . . . you really should study our Bible more Toadaly And get a commentary to explain it to you.

WOW, are you serious about this question? I promise I am not trying to be rude or funny but goodness its like 3 to 4 different questions in one that goes all over the place. From dinosaurs to Mammoth to Noahs Ark, remember, there are different dates when these things happened sweetie.

* Was Jesus blood shed for the forgiveness of sin? If so, then yes, that’s a human sacrifice I don’t disagree with that. It was the ultimate Self Sacrific for Us. . . Including You Toadaly. . . The Willingness of God reaching out for us, Being made flesh and Blood and living with all our weaknesses and then Dying a shameful death in our place. . . Out of love and now all we have to do is obey His will totally and completely. . .

Actually men and women in uniform sacrific themselves daily for our freedom and safety which includes military personal, Police officers and firemen and women. Sometimes the price it blood and sometimes it’s their tears. . . .

http://www.allaboutcreation.org/Catastrophism.htm

THis is a very interesting site!

Check it out for yourselves.

I 2nd the motion. That page is filled with vague references to known frauds (such as the indirect references to the Paluxy riverbed) and bunk. If there’s anything valid on it, it’d be a challenge to sort it out from all the nonsense.

No I attribute intelligence to the men and women who translate the bible to make it easy to understand And know what should and shouldn’t be Capitalised and what shouldn’t. . . Your real point is you want to make everyone who believes the Bible and everyone that translated it look like morons. . . . sorry your only showing your own limits in understanding of higher Education in the studys of Language and the prinipal of Translation. Just think about it Homers writting were older than the new testament so if we can’t translate the bible properly we probably can’t translate Homers writings properly either and haven’t got a clue as to what was really wrote.

* “It is obvious that this track was not carved at all. “

…who said anything about the prints being carved!? Obviously they are real dino footprints. I should know, I’ve stood in them barefoot.

rneal, I have to wonder if you understand anything you read in the Bible at all, or if you even read it. Here’s the end of the story:

“And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

And Jacob asked [him], and said, Tell [me], I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore [is] it [that] thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”

…Jacob is said to have power with God, and is said to have seen God face to face and lived. The story never says Jacob wrestled with an angel of God, it says he wrestled with God himself. Take your own advice and get hold of some commentaries to explain it to you.

im christian… im not going to say that I have all the answers because no one really knows, its just in your heart… animals have to evolve for there environment, back then it was very very cold so thats why they had all that fur, over time as the weather got warmer, they evolved into what they are now..( im not saying that this is true, its just what I believe) have you ever had world history? it tells about how humans use to have thicker skulls and more hair, and they used more of there brain.. well over time since things are easier for us we dont have to use as much, now our skulls are smaller, and we only use like 10% of our brains.

arachnid, thousands of visitors to the Paluxy river each year conclude for themselves that the Creationist claims are a complete fraud. In the links rneal provide, there is the illusion that we are arguing over a single foot print. But we aren’t. There are dozens of prints in the riverbed, and any idiot can tell none of them are human by any stretch of the imagination. The stride alone rules out humans, regardless of the fact they simply are not human prints by any reasonable stretch of the imagination.

It’s typical Creationist smoke and mirrors combined with outright lies and fraud as necessary to suck in the gullible.

rnealw: Show me a refereed article in a respected scientific journal, instead of layman-written pages on a partisan website, and you’ll go some of the way to convincing me. Alternately, how about an explanation of why there isn’t such an article, without invoking the largest conspiracy ever conceived, encompassing the entire scientific community?

ok orion, so you believe that God actually wrestled with Jacob, and Jacob subdued him, right? The Bible says that too you know (Genesis 32:24-31)

Orion: Simply copying and pasting the stuff we already debunked from the link rnealw posted doesn’t add anything new.

I dont beleive in religion… but there is no evidence of dinosaurs and humans co-existing becase both species are just too different, neither could have survived and evolved well or even lived in the same period of time. thats the way the WORLD (not god) made it and noahs ark is a load of crap. there are trillions of animals on the planet, and you have got to living under a rock if you think they 2 of every kind of them can fit on the same “bat” all a load of crap to me…but both were interesting questions…and its funny to read what other people come up with

orion: Have you read anything anyone else has pointed out here? Most notably, there’s no group of “scientists” that agree on everything any more than all jews agree on anything, or all engineers. Science only works because scientists are constantly retesting things and evaluating new evidence. If credible evidence were found that contradicts an existing theory were found, you can be sure it would be siezed on by scientists eager to make their career from such a discovery.

The reason science doesn’t accept your conclusion is because there is no such credible evidence, and there is a huge preponderance of evidence against it. Young earth creationism is so thoroughly debunked that even many other creationists are embarassed to be associated with it.

Scientists have every reason to believe that humans and dinos didn’t coexist because dinos died out 65 million years ago and H. sapiens arose only 250,000 years ago.

One thing about Evolutionist. . . . they sure like to discredit others thought and then not back information. . . . Besides I think the Evolutionist Ideas have been disproven and there feather ruffled. . . Seems they think they have ‘Debarked’ ( yes I meant to say that.) us by barking louder. . .

—“There are no transitional fossils in between species.”

I have to wonder what you would permit to be classified as a “transitional fossil”. Are you only wiling to consider crocoduck fossils?

I don’t know if they did or didn’t co-exist, but it is a fact that dinos did exist on earth at some point in time.

Noah took two of every kind of unclean animals and seven of the clean ones. If dinos were alive then, which they probably were, he took babies…small, easier to get on board.

The word the Bible uses is: behemoth = dinos

Hi mealw, great information! I already knew human beings existed with dinos, the scientist don’t want it proven because then they’d have to admit they are wrong. LOL! Keep up the good work.

“One thing about Evolutionist. . . . they sure like to discredit others thought and then not back information. . . . “

That’s rather rich, after posting a link to an article which makes a bunch of vague, totally unsubstantiated claims, and even goes so far as to admit that what it’s proposing isn’t a scientific theory.

I’m sorry if you feel that I’m not backing up my claims, but there’s only so far I’m prepared to go to refute total hogwash such as that. Besides, the burden of proof is on the person making the claims to back them up.

this site has a better example of print and foot. . . . http://www.bible.ca/tracks/ryals-track.htm http://www.bible.ca/tracks/taylor-trail.htm http://www.bible.ca/tracks/burdick-track.htm http://www.bible.ca/tracks/new-mexico-problematica-track.htm http://www.bible.ca/tracks/cat-track.htm

You guys must be talking about Adams bridge. . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam’s_Bridge Read down to No historical link “project, the Government of India on Wednesday, 12the Sep 2007 told the Supreme Court of India that there was no historical evidence to establish the existence of Lord Ram or the other characters in Ramayana.” Seems India’s government doesn’t even believe.

me, personally, I dont think the 7 days was literal at all. a lot of things in the bible are taken literally that are not supposed to. so maybe animals were roaming the earth hundreds of years before people were even created. I dont know, really, though, im just speculating. I never knew this myself.good question

I’ve seen them first hand too, and they look nothing like human footprints at all. If not for the artists renering they superimpose over ONE print, no reasonable person would even suspect they were anything but dino footprints.

rneal, I can’t believe you’ve walked in the riverbed if you think anything down there looks like a human foot print.

arachnid I rarely read all the posts when I answer a topic, especially if there are so many as this.

I didn’t know you “debunked” anything. I’m not sure what debunking entails. Anyway, I did what I thought would help those find the answers they seek. Putting up the website and posting from it was only to help direct them to more information on the topic, and my way of answering the question of the topic.

What you pasted is exactly the same as what rnealw linked to - and we already debunked. If you continue to believe it, why don’t you respond to the criticism instead of cutting-and-pasting?

Sorry arachnid, but I thought it would help those interested to get a taste of the site I posted, then if they were interested they could go and learn more.

The fossil records do not support the theory of evolution. There are no transitional fossils in between species. From apes to man, Raptor dinosaurs to birds etc… That is why evolution is still a theory not a fact. As for the 6 days of creation, you’d have to imagine time on God’s scale. The bible is just as often literal as is it allegorical no one knows if the six days is literal or not because God didn’t expound upon his statement. Perhaps God put dinosaur bones directly into the ground with out them having lived at all. No one was around to see them actually existing so you can’t say this is impossible. When your entire reality is based upon chemical and electrical impulses interpreted through your brain you can’t claim the world even exists in the first place. So now that you know all of reality is relative and subjective you should have even more questions than this answer provides and be less sure of anything you thought you knew than before. Your welcome! lol ;> “In the begining the world was created. This made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.” (Douglas Adams - The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy) “God is a comedian playing to an audience thats too afraid to laugh.” (Voltaire)

“arachnid, why do you go about causing trouble for Christian? Do you hate God that bad? Why can’t you just allow people to believe what they do without purposely picking apart every word they say? I stand by my comment.”

I can’t hate that which I don’t believe exists. I question because I want to know what you actually think about these things, or more to the point, if you actually think about these things.

“He ensures His Holy Words in at least one version. The KJV is the best in my ‘opinion’. I am sure there are others in other languages that may be the same or better than the KJV, but I am American and I speak only one language AND the KJV is English. Now do you understand? It is really pretty simple…”

There are many english translations of the bible. How do you know that god made the KJV version the accurate one? And if he divinely guides translators, why would he permit the existence of other, incorrect translations?

arachnid you are so far out in left field that you can’t even hear the dinner bell.

Science has done many good things and helped cure illnesses and such, but when it comes to God they don’t know what they are talking about, and neither do you.

The only logical conclusion possible is that a Super Intelligence creatored us and our world, and if you have a problem with accepting that, well, then it ‘s your problem.

Soon now the Creator, Lord Jesus Christ will return to take those who love and follow Him to heaven. I am going to be there to welcome Him!

For all who believe other than Jesus Christ is Lord and Creator I truly do feel sorry that you won’t be going with us, but you’ve made your decision, but there is a window of time left before probation closes…

Eternity is forever. Don’t you think it is worth it to spend some time checking to determine if you are following a false end?

THINK ABOUT IT…

arachnid I trust the people translating to know when to write Lord or lord. they are well trained it the art of translating what we christians believe to be the inspired written word of God. . . I actually prefer the NIV or the ESV. . . I own several translations including a Greek / English translation. . . I even own a book of the dead sea scrolls the Quran and the Book of Mormons I also use a free computer bible programs ( http://www.e-sword.net/ ) that gives me access to several translations and bible dictionarys and concordances so I can study word for word what I’m reading. And arachnid I have faith God can control what is in His book. . . .

The bible was written by man, the books in the bible were chosen by man and man decided what books should NOT be part of the bible. However, a christian may say that in these cases, man was obviously guided by God because they have faith.

In my experience, it is really difficult for a non christion to have an in depth and constructive discussion with a dedicated Christian about God and the bible.

Whenever the non christian puts forward a good point to justify his stance and his reasoning or ask for a particulary complicated explanation, the christian will often resort to words like:

‘Well, you wouldn’t understand, because to understand you need faith and you don’t have it.’ or similar.

In such a case, one cannot ever really get to the bottom of christianity or fully feel it, as faith is really the key behind the whole christian belief.

I have had many interesting discussions with a christian friend and collleague and many years ago, I read the bible from cover to cover, more as a historical document, rather than a religious text.

I have also assisted in excavations in Capernaum next to the Sea of Galilee where some of the disciples lived and Jesus spent some of his early days teaching in the synagogue.

However, just as I feel I am beginning to understand, my next question always seems to receive the ‘Well, thats where you need faith and you don’t have it” type response.

It is like something fascinating is just around the next corner but everytime I turn that corner, another corner appears.

I’m sorry if this post appears anti christian as this was not my intention. I have learnt a lot from my colleague and we have had some fascinating discussions about God and the bible.

My point being that Christans and non christians can never possibly agree or see eye to eye because the non christian does not have faith.

It appears that I am doomed to go through life keep hoping to get around that last damned corner.

:):):)

PS Ref the bible and the books in the bible etc…This link has some interesting historical explanations including naming a number of missing books that the bible mentions but were never included: http://freethought.mbdojo.com/canon.html

The bible doesn’t specifically mention dinosaurs but there are a few verses that mention other words that leave me of a mind that there was some knowledge of them.

In psalm 74 It mentions monsters Rev 12:3 refereences a dragon( descriptive commontary for the devil of course) in Job 40:15-19 it mentions behemoths which could be anything from a hippopatamus to a dinosaur. Most agree that Job may have been written even before Genesis.

Hope this helps

jazlove, you really don’t need to insult or be so crude when addressing other people’s views and beliefs. Beliefs are personal and when you attack their beliefs so disrespectfully as you did, they will return disrespect to you.

If you have respect for other’s beliefs, they’ll have respect for yours, and since you don’t know everything there is to know, you just may be wrong. Think about it.

When Noah put, let’s say a dog on the Ark he didn’t put Poodles, Lhasa Apsos, Great Danes…on, he puts a wolf, which everybody knows our present day domesticated pet dogs came from. Same with all the other animals; they all came from one certain strain and blossomed into many breeds, such as cats, bear…

Rnealw: That page simply recapitulates a bunch of already disproven or unprovable statements. It’s not scientific in nature, it even admits as much:

“However, we must admit � it�s not original. In fact, the theory isn�t really a �scientific� theory at all. It�s based on the established truth of the Biblical record � a record that�s not dependant on mankind�s ever-changing view of science and reason.”

And I just love the attitude that the fact that science changes is a bad thing - correcting mistakes and discovering new things is good, not bad.

rnealw: Regardless of how good the translators are, you can’t rely on the capitalisation of the translation as definitive evidence of anything other than the translators’ interpretation. If you want to make a plausible argument, you have to go back to the hebrew.

orion: You just made my point for me: If God ensures the translations are accurate, how is it that there are multiple different translations, including, in your words, some “no so good translations”?

The Creator, Lord Jesus Christ is a big enough God to make sure His Words, the Holy Bible is pure and is exactly what He wants it to say. I prefer the NKJ because it is comparable to the KJV in the fact that it is updated language; no more ‘thee or thou” which makes it easy to understand without changing the meanings.

I also know there are some not so good translations out there, but you can never go wrong with the KJV, or the NKJ versions. :)

I want to share a secret with ya toadaly When the Bible is speaking of God it is alway capitalized. . . God, Lord, He, Him, Master, ect. If you look at the verse you will notice the one Jacob wrestles with is him and he. Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob’s thigh was strained, as he wrestled with him. Not as simple to read as you thought is it. . . . . Here is some further reading on the subject. http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVanswers/2005/07-22.htm

womanofvirtue, you are correct. Even ancient Jews knew Genesis was allegorical rather than literal. For some reason, Biblical inerrantists largely ignore the history of their religion, and have subsequently lost much of the context.

So you end up with nonsense like ‘creation science’ and cartoonish ‘end-times’ scenarios that depicts people literally flying up into the air to meet Jesus, presumably he’s taking them on a tour of the solar system?

That’s why im an athiest.

ahhh, A new age religion. . . . (off shoot of Gaudiya Vaishnavism) So. . . . . . . I’ve never known a krishna that had long hair. . .

I’m going to guess orion is being comical, since I don’t think anyone can actually be that dumb.

Orion, this is Ken hamms site. . . lots of interesting stuff here. http://www.answersingenesis.org/

toadly, this is off topic so I suggest that you send me the references thru FunMail, that is, if there really is any…thanks

Was Jesus blood shed for the forgiveness of sin? If so, then yes, that’s a human sacrifice.

* “I really doubt that , besides if you knew more you would believe. “

The irony is priceless.

the thing about dinosaurs and humans not existing at the same time… I’ve never heard a religious person explain that one.

Bravo!!! Viva Orion!

rnealw … AMEN!!

No it has a price. . . The blood of Christ.

I’ve seen them first hand. . . . they look Human to me. . . . .

Domzila, Maybe you are that missing link!

:)

I suggest some people read this. . . http://www.dinosaur-extinction.com/

Guess we’ll have to stick with Ken Hamm.

a Super Intelligence created us (that being God Almighty)

And for the theory:

Dinosaur Extinction: The Theory Dinosaur Extinction is a recent phenomenon. Many of the great sea and land monsters went extinct in a global flood about 4400 years ago. Some of these creatures survived and inhabited earth with man, until they too went extinct as man killed them for sport, safety, and expansion (like black bears in Florida and bison in the Western U.S.). We know this theory is revolutionary to many! However, we must admit – it’s not original. In fact, the theory isn’t really a “scientific” theory at all. It’s based on the established truth of the Biblical record – a record that’s not dependant on mankind’s ever-changing view of science and reason. We absolutely encourage you to carefully examine the evidence for yourself!

Domzila,

Can we see a copy of your Geology or Paleoarchaeology degree? Thanks.

No civilized being would engage in human sacrifice in any regard.

I’m not claiming to be a Bible scholar, but from what I can see, I know more about it than you do.

FYI, Kent Hovind is currently in prison for fraud. The man is a proven charlatan.