Swine flu... God or Science?

I am aware that it isn’t the same flu. The mutagen rate for the virus would mean that even if it were the same strain 33 years later… the vaccine would no longer be effective.

The ease of the transmission is based on the similarities between swine and human pathogens and since the 1976 flu was also a swine borne flu… the transmission rates would be similar.

There will be a new vaccine… and this typically requires months to accomplish… if after a few months the death rate is at a pandemic level… mass inoculation should be offered… not mandated… but remember that the common flu kills thousands in the U.S. yearly.

“I also believe your ability to understand that the syndrome the article mentions could have occurred naturally and not because of the virus… were talking about 40 million people not exactly a small amount of people also age is not mentioned or exactly when the people showed first signs”

The 500 cases of Guillian-Barre attributed to the vaccine were determined by doctors. I will admit that they are capable of mistakes. While in the vicinity of unreliable sources… we can assume in the other direction as well and suggest that the number under-represents actual cases and possibly even deaths. We do know that the program of mass inoculation was prematurely stopped in lieu of the fact that the pandemic wasn’t panning out and the vaccine was causing too much damage. The cold hard fact is that not all scientists are altruistic… and even the best aren’t infallible.

To Illustrate the level of propaganda the U.S. govt reached to in order to scare the populace into needless vaccination… this is an example of two endorsements put on air for the swine flu vaccine in 1976… replete with scary music rivaling the horror flicks of the era.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__AzgfrfrOY&feature=related

By praying we would be going back thousands of years. They prayed when The Black Death hit and were did that get them? No were. People believed in all the hocus pocus of potions and prayer and that’s why no progress was made and people were constantly dieing of curable diseases. If we were to pray we would get no were and waste thousands of pounds of research over the past decade that has given us the knowledge we have today. It is irrational to pray when there is a logical explanation.

what about both? ever thought of that?

if you are good and always confess your sins then you will not have to pay

its not the same flu you know…

its a new strain thats able to easily transmit through humans the 1976 case had a different virus so if its the same vaccine it wont help us at all so that means itll be a new vaccine

but youll also have to understand vaccines are made FROM the virus so youd expect that weak people might not be able to fight it well

I also believe your ability to understand that the syndrome the article mentions could have occurred naturally and not because of the virus… were talking about 40 million people not exactly a small amount of people also age is not mentioned or exactly when the people showed first signs

tseirpeht “Why are you so threatened by a being that you dont believe in?” I’m not threatend by a being that I don’t believe in, but do to what I am I am threatend by the people who do believe in him all the time. They threaten to burn me, run me through with knifes, & all that good stuff. So it shouldn’t be of no surprise that I oppose those types of religious people.

& I’m not threaten, but perhaps you are if you pray to much, this is actually kind of interesting

Your preachers tell you to pray to your “good lord” & he will provide. There were people on a desert & had not eaten anything but manna. They preyed for some meat, which sound reasonable, right? The issue here is that the cries of his people annoyed him so much that, he sent quails down for them to eat but, he killed them before they could get a single bite in their mouths (Numbers 11:18-31) I’ld be hoping for the scientiest to find a cure.

Why are you asking that question? Your logic is flawed. What I mean is if science comes up with a great shot that prevents you from being able to contract swine flu you would say that it happened because people prayed to hod for it and give full credit to god for other peoples work. But if they do not come up with a shot and a cure then you will only blame them and not god. So no you should not “ask him to make it go away” because he cant. Unfortunatly, “god” cannot control the world, or viruses such as that. Its smart people who come up with these things, not god.

Since “god” is responsible for everything good that has ever happened why dont we just right “GOD” in place of the names of heroes and smart people’s headlines in the newspaper?

Eg: “God saves woman from burning building” “God discovers cure for cancer” And then for all bad things we can put devil eg “devil kills three people in fire” etc?

Hey Vickkiii,

You are making an excellent point… but why (and to whom) are you asking: ‘…Why are you asking that question…?’

‘But you have no way of knowing how many more deaths there might have been had the 40 million not been vaccinated? ‘

No… or by taking High doses of Vitamin C or Colloidal silver for that matter. The Problem is that before the government knew it was a pandemic… they urged the vaccine and we do know undeniably that flu deaths were outstripped by vaccine deaths… and by health problems resulting from the vaccine.

Also… flu vaccines are a shot in the dark… they are developed ahead of time based on the assumptive strain that will be the risk. Are we sure that a ready made swine flu vaccine is the correct strain to have any affect?… How can a vaccine have been made so quickly?

Yeah… I don’t disagree that high risk populations consider the vaccine… Elderly… moreso than infants. For the rest of us… let’s rely on the millions of year old immune system to do its job and not trust our welfare to a science about a century old.

Science never more delusional:

informer_220… it is plainly in the URL what year I was referring to… my myopic friend!

1 confirmed death via the 1976 swine flu compared to 25 confirmed deaths from the vaccine. Add to this 500 cases of Guillain-Barre… and if I have done the math correctly… that is a 525 x casualty rate in taking the inoculation in comparison to taking the risk.

“can you crunch numbers? well say 40 million americans eat peanuts, how many will die of nut allergy?? “

I crunched the numbers for you above. Are you asking me to fill in the rest of the info for you here?… Do your own research.

But presaging your point… If I am struck by lightning while walking home… or even if I choke on a peanut… I am in the routine of life… accidents happen. If I am sold on a vaccine that is 25 times more lethal than the disease… and I happen to be a victim… it is a direct result of faulty information… and could have been prevented.

If you question the analysis of the doctors and scientists who determined the 500 Giullian-Barre syndromes a result of the 1976 swine vaccine… this is your prerogative… Hey!… I will even forego the tactless insults. I think it illustrates plainly the hypocrisy of the technocrats at FA.

“1 confirmed death via the 1976 swine flu compared to 25 confirmed deaths from the vaccine. “

But you have no way of knowing how many more deaths there might have been had the 40 million not been vaccinated?

I have never gotten a flu shot, and I am not running out and getting one now, but I don’t think it is bad for people in high risk categories to get it.

How often does praying to get over an illness really work over making an actual vaccine?

Both.

In Rev. it talks about the leaves of the trees for the healing of the nations, to me that speaks of herbs, and all medicine started with herbal formulas.

God gave man the knowledge to make vaccines, and meds, he also teaches us to pray in his word.

Tried the praying thing to many times and for things much worse than flu before, nope doesn’t work, I’ll go for the needle!!! At least then I would have a chance….. ;-)

science over illusion

@miscegenymiser if you want to use dated and now worthless facts be my guest but state what year it is first…

1976? oh wait science has evolved in those 33 years since that while religion has not, ALSO the article states that over 40 million were vaccinated and only 500 got the “unknown” disease

can you crunch numbers? well say 40 million americans eat peanuts, how many will die of nut allergy??

certainly is a bigger number, plus More than 500 people are thought to have developed Guillain-Barre syndrome after receiving the vaccine and 25 died. No one completely understands what causes Guillain-Barre in certain people, but the condition can develop after a bout with infection or following surgery or vaccination

no one understands where this condition comes from, and giving its reasons it could come from ANYTHING (bout with infection, vaccination, surgery??? so youre saying I could get it after I’ve had the flu)

@tseirpeht will you EVER answer a question?

I say let those who want to pray pray, and let evolution do its work…

Me no believe in a god. I really don’t take drugs, I’m more of an herbalist, & it’s served me quite well for the past few years. I’ve made a remidy that’s better than any cold medicine, I get ofver the common cold in 1-2 days, lol(if anyone is interested in the ingredients, just let me know). The swine flu doesn’t seem like anything to worry about, so I’ll stick to the herbs. However, I do hope scientist find a cure.

I’m not personally going to be standing in line for the inoculation. If you’re of the mindset that science is a panacea… infallible or altruistic… don’t opt for the injection before reading this:

http://healthandsurvival.com/2009/04/26/swine-flu-vaccine-of-1976-more-harm-than-good/

tseirpeht, who exactly is threatened?

Well God does have a history of killing people, after all he did watch world war 1 AND 2, gave the world HIV because everyone was happy and he wanted to watch some death to keep him happy…so maybe praying to him to take back what he gave is isnt the best idea haha

Why are you so threatened by a being that you dont believe in?

Well since praying achieves nothing, I would go with the scientific method. That method actually has a track record of success.

Hhmm… so far, I like Jimahl’s answer the best…

I wouldn’t pray or get immunized. I don’t take any type of medicine and I do’t believe in “god”. Just stay in bedand drink a lot of juices? aha

Personally I don’t think its that big of a deal. But even so I’d pray that God will give Sciencetist the knowledge to find the best way to treat it. But either way God has a part in it.

asking a fictional character to help would be pointless, so the only solution is to allow medical science to get people immunized.