Gay marriage ban overturned in California

Well then, let’s let everyone do whatever they want to whom ever they want because after all that’s what liberalists cling to. The “you are your own God mentality” and morality or lack there of is a sure sign of what’s yet to come. And yes, it may seem that some of us Christians are a bit conservative, and we do indeed live by, love the sinner, credo because I’ve been there and I know what it’s like to live that way. I’m not bashing people and the choices they make are totally up to them. Am I telling them how to live? NO! I am however, given my experience in this, telling people that there is another way. Disagree if you like. I never asked for brownie points. And yes, guile and bitterness under the guise of sarcasm does nothing but undermind the intelligence of the discussion. Being indignant and rude proves nothing and lowers the integrity of the conversation.

God created Gay people, so how would it be right of him to go and try and destroy something just because he doesnt think its right at the time. I know the thing about it all but, he made people gay so, shouldnt it be ok? He knew that people would be gay, so wouldnt he be alright withit instead of makin something he was against just so he colud turn the world upside down? One of my best friends are a gay couple and want to get married, but unfortunately it is illegal in Texas but, they go to church every Sunday and always give money and always are praying and signing right along, and leadnig church activies, and they are STRONG believeers in god, So, if they are ok, and enter his building. then isnt everywhere ok? xoxo

Well, speaking from past experience in that chosen lifestyle I can assure you that I do know a bit of what I am talking about. As far as the contradiction goes, I really don’t think there is. Civil law states that everyone has a right to be treated fairly and I can agree with that, workplace etc. But, where I have the difficulty is when gays are demanding their rights to be allowed a pastoral roll in a church. I knew a lot of gay people who are very nice people and who didn’t force their feelings or views on me even when I left the lifestyle. Neither did I them. The courts however, have no right making churches subject to such rulings as it underminds biblical church doctrine. Case in point: I was told this week at our monthly church board meeting about a lady who, graduated from semenary school, got a job at a Christian organization and worked there. She was told at the time of her hiring that she was to voluntarily sign an agreement of a statement of faith. It included a statement about not be involved in homosexual behavior. Which she signed, voluntarily, without coersion having read and understood the statement of faith only to later reveal that she in fact is a lesbian and is now suing the company for firing her claiming human rights violations. She is manipulating the system because she knew what she was doing and what the expectations of the company were.

My , my, the tongues are sharp on this one!! Keep in mind though that God, makes the sun to shine on the just as much as He does the unjust and rain to fall on the just and the unjust. God is no respecter of people, meaning their stature or position in life. In His eyes we are all the same. When we choose to live in a way that is contrary to His why wouldn’t He see the need for reproof, rebuke and correction? Did not our own parents correct us when we went against what they said or wished? God does not punish arbitrarily and indescriminately, He does so for the sake of correction in hopes that people will turn back to Him. Do you think that we, Christians, don’t get our fingers wrapped from time to time? We are not in any way better or perfect or higher than anyone else. I am embarassed when I read posts that rip people by some who claim to be Christians. That said, it’s up to God what He does next as far as the gay marriage issue is concerned. Living in Canada, we’ve had it for years and truthfully it saddens me greatly. Gays are forcing, yes forcing, their ways into churches and areas that they shouldn’t under the guise of discrimintory acts. We are being made to allow them to be minsters in conservative churches based solely on their credentials. Throw the bible away and teach whatever comes to mind. Legalized gay marriage is the first step, then comes gay adoption, gay health care benefits and the list goes on and on. It’s a fact in Canada and it will soon be that way in America also. I’m not against people that are gay, it’s the choice of being gay that’s the issue.

gasmanobt3: “God is no respecter of people, meaning their stature or position in life.”

But you are…

First you say this: “I am embarassed when I read posts that rip people by some who claim to be Christians. “

And then you say: “ Gays are forcing, yes forcing, their ways into churches and areas that they shouldn’t …”

Do you not see the contradiction here?

I agree with flossheal that government should not be able to dictate church personell, if that is even true. What other areas are you talking about? And how exactly are they forcing their ways? Are they forcing you to have sex with another man? Or are they just showing up places as a couple? OH NO NOT THAT!!!

Religious belief is not a valid reason to discriminate. In the past it was thought to be against god’s will for a black and white to marry. So it seems god’s will is not static.

“And yes, guile and bitterness under the guise of sarcasm does nothing but undermind the intelligence of the discussion.”

No, bigotry does that. That was my original point.

Didn’t the voter of California vote on that, And if so isn’t the csc ruling kind of a stab in the back to the voters of California?

theres nothing wrong with being gay if you want to think “god” has anything to do with this then continue doing so but earthquakes are caused by a a lot of different things and there is no force stronger than mother nature and even still, mother nature doesnt discriminate against gays either

andyburton - exactly what problems are you talking about (surely not homosexuality, which has been around since forever? as depicted by early art?)

If so, I expect this god to lash out indiscriminately, like he always does, killing babies, children, and even fundamentalist Christians right beside gays and the people who overturned the ban. He’s kind of a jerk in that regard.

Hmmm…this time, I’m going to say God will go old school, and resort to some good, old fashioned fire and brimstone raining down on San Francisco and the Bay area.

Before he does this, he’ll warn Arnold Schwarzenegger to leave the state. Unfortunately, Arnold will turn back to look on his beloved California and will be turned into a pillar of steroids.

if ‘god’ created life it means he created gays…

so tell me how can he punish something he created that way? think about it…

no not at all it was a miss hap theres nothing wrong with gays and im sure god nos it so he wont do aney thing

Been away for a few days, and I see my question is still going strong. Good work mjax and ameoba.

gasmanobt3: “Did either of you take note that I have said in previous posts that I, myself, had been involved in the lifestyle? I do know what it’s like from both sides of the issue.”

Do you think becuase you “had been involved in the lifestyle” that you have some deeper insight as to why gays should be denied their civil rights? To me, you saying you were “involved” only highlights your bigotry even more. Either way, it is irrelevant to the discussion.

“BUT, I also realize that there is a better way.”

Perhaps not everyone agrees with your way. Does that mean they should be denied certain rights and benefits?

“I will not, however, allow someone to miss the opportunity to hear about the love of the Saviour.”

You made it clear that you oppose gay marriage, adoption, etc. You have so far failed to provide any logical reason why, other than it doesn’t fit in with your particular religious beliefs.

What if your government decided to prevent Christians from adopting, marrying, and practicing faith in public? You would be adamantly opposed to this violation of civil liberties. But you support the same action being taken against homosexuals. Not only is this bigotry, it’s a flagrant double-standard.

This is what I mean. Did either of you take note that I have said in previous posts that I, myself, had been involved in the lifestyle? I do know what it’s like from both sides of the issue. I understand the points that are being raised by homosexuals etc. BUT, I also realize that there is a better way. I never said that they should go back in the closet and stay there. Neither are the comments denoting any kind of bigotry in any form. They are people with needs just like the rest of us and I understand that. I will not, however, allow someone to miss the opportunity to hear about the love of the Saviour. If they or anyone else chooses, CHOOSES, Christ ,on their own, given the opportunity then that’s fine.

“I’m not against people that are gay, it’s the choice of being gay that’s the issue.”

And I’m not against people that are Italian, but when they choose to speak Italian, wear Italian clothes, eat Italian food, and practice Italian customs…well, that’s going too far. They shouldn’t be allowed to do those things.

Seriously dude, your statement makes absolutely no sense at all. Do you have any idea how condescending and self-righteous the “hate the sin, love the sinner” mentality truly is?

amblessed: “God is faithful and just - if you read the Bible, He hates the sin, not the sinner - time will tell.”

So I take it you disagree with Pastor Hagee when he said: “All hurricanes are acts of God because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that.”

Will you show as much condemnation for McCain’s for his close ties to Hagee, as you did for Obama and Rev. Wright?

God is not concerned with the sexual persuasion of the creatures of the world.

God also does not concern Itself with the affairs of the world, so God is not involved in “punishing” man for man’s perceived sins.

If the gay marriage ban was overturned in California then that is a good thing!

No person or people should be discriminated against because of race, religion or sexual persuasion.

Hmm… I wondered why, at the time, the Hurricane in New Orleans was seen as punishment for sexual sin rather than environmental sin. Indeed, it may have been nothing to do with Climate Change, but if it was, surely we brought the punishment on ourselves by our consumer behaviour, not our sexual preferences… It’s so easy, and sooo fun, to pick on someone else’s sin, rather than your own…

I am a Christian and I believe that in the Bible God has told His followers to look on marriage as something between a woman and a man. I didn’t notice the bit where He told us to use legislation to force our views on non-Christians, though. But it must be equally wrong if legislation is used to force non-Christian views on churches, so gasmanobt3’s observations about the situation in Canada do alarm me.

the integrity of the conversation was lowered when you stated…

“Legalized gay marriage is the first step, then comes gay adoption, gay health care benefits and the list goes on and on. It’s a fact in Canada and it will soon be that way in America also. I’m not against people that are gay, it’s the choice of being gay that’s the issue.”

Oh yes…homosexuals should just curl up in a corner and be quiet… who are they to think that they should have equal rights to marry, adopt, have health care benefits and the list goes on and on. They decided to be homosexual, so they should just shut up and accept the consequences…

churches that refuse to ordain homosexuals, against their “mother” church directive, may leave and strike out on their own, cutting all ties with their “mother” church. from my research, many in canada decided to do just that. many people lie on their job applications. was she fired for lying or for being homosexual? the canadian civil rights act CLEARLY forbids denying employment to anyone based on religion, race, sexual preference, etc. most churches and religious organizations are tax exempt, to retain that status you may not deny an employee’s civil rights. she might have signed the paper but it was clearly a paper that was trying to base employment on sexual preference. and that is NOT allowed. my hat is off to the canadians for having the courage and humanity to add the provision of “sexual preference” to their civil rights act. I wish my country were so inclined.

gasmanobt3- after much research I am unable to find where homosexuals are forcing their way into canadian churches. what I did find was that under canadian civil law, homosexuals may not be descriminated against because of their sexual preference… homosexual activists have insisted that the churches conform to the ‘equality’ rights of homosexuals, as determined by the courts and legislation, and stop discriminating against them because of religious belief. Adoptions, social services, such as nursing homes, religious- based schools, marriages, employment conduct, etc., carried out by religious organizations will be held to secular standards, not religious ones.

so homosexuals want to have the same rights as everyone else, and are willing to stand up for their beliefs and rights as humans…

please read the words of coretta scott king, widow of martin luther king, jr. -

‘I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice… But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King, Jr., said, ‘Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere’… I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King, Jr.’s dream to make room at the table of brotherhood and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people.’

‘We are all tied together in a single garment of destiny… I can never be what I ought to be until you are allowed to be what you ought to be,’ she said, quoting from her husband. ‘I’ve always felt that homophobic attitudes and policies were unjust and unworthy of a free society and must be opposed by all Americans who believe in democracy.’

‘Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery , Selma , in Albany , Georgia , and St. Augustine , Florida , and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement. Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions.’

‘We have a lot of work to do in our common struggle against bigotry and discrimination. I say ‘common struggle,’ because I believe very strongly that all forms of bigotry & discrimination are equally wrong and should be opposed by right-thinking Americans everywhere. Freedom from discrimination based on sexual orientation is surely a fundamental human right in any great democracy, as much as freedom from racial, religious, gender, or ethnic discrimination.’

‘Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood. This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group.’

PS, mjax1979: ‘Pillar of Steroids’ - I’m proud to have you on my friends list!

Either that, or like the fires they had out there… who knows what the wrath of God will bring…

lol, people are missing the sarcasm here?

I should point out I was being sarcastic in my statement about Italians, and that I said it to prove a point about gasmanobt’s statement. My sarcasm has gotten me in trouble on this site before, so I don’t want to give a false impression. My girlfriend is of Italian descent after all :)

marriage is a civil action. if your church doesn’t approve of gay marriage then don’t perform any…

I, for one, am proud of california!

Well, as said in the imortal words of “Butters,””If I’m bicurious and I’m somehow made from God, then I think God must be a little bicurious himself!” Yeah it just makes sense that gay marriage should be allowed, denying someone civil rights is wrong and cruel, besides, California hasn’t sunken off the face of the earth yet, so I’d say its ok.