Gay people and religion

Hey Zackk,

Your advice that homosexual Christians ‘…should ask Jesus to transform them [not only] into straight people…’ sounds like an interesting and magical formula indeed!

Can Jesus really do that? Have you …(there are those words again)… empirical evidence of previous occurrences?!

And.., let us assume that you are correct (but please do not tell my loving and caring life-partner; she will be heartbroken. And so will I be. But what do you care..?), does your magic scheme only apply to Christians? In other words; are only people effected by this fantastic transformation who subject themselves to the notions of your religion and who dwell in the realm of biblically generated sin?

If not, it all sounds rather… sexist. Are you comfortable with other kinds of discrimination too (like racism; plenty of biblical justification for that one too)?

Actually… do not bother to answer any of the above… simply allow me to consider your comments as undignified and hypocritical: ‘…to love gays and lesbians etc means to refrain from condemning and judging them…’; not very pleasant Zackk…

(by the way, I am a little bit curious about the ‘etc’ in ‘…to love gays and lesbians etc…’. Who are the people that represent the ‘etcetera’ in your mind? Did you give that any thought before you wrote that down? It seems a bit nonchalant).

God is perfectly holy and righteous contrary to what some have believed. He cannot be in the presence of sin so He came to earth in Jesus to bridge the gap from sinful humans back to Holy God. Only thru Jesus can you have forgiveness of sins and eternal life with God after you die.

Gay sex is a sin just like sex outside of a committed marriage between one man and one woman. God doesn’t change and get more “user friendly” as people become more tolerant and indulgent in their sinful behaviors. God is the same yesterday, today and forevermore! Man falsely believes that he is evolving and thereby more open to alternative lifestyles. Man has truly reaped the wind for these foolish choices.

Only thru renouncing the gay life, bowing before the true God of the Universe and trusting in Jesus alone for salvation (based on His perfect life that we could never live and His death & rising from the dead thereby proving Himself to be God very God in the flesh) can gays be saved from the penalty of sin. This applies to all people gay or not so don’t say this is homophobic!

Please do not think that all christians are fundamentalist jerks that condemn anyone who is different to hell. The right wing, fundamentalist christians give all christians a bad name. I am jewish but have many friends who are christian and they do NOT look down upon anyone. The problem is that the loudest and most vocal are the fundamentalist nut jobs. So many people think that their attitudes represent most christians, when that could not be further from the truth. If you look at the christian answers on this site, the most negative answers towards others are from the fundamentalist crowd. In their book, everyone that is not cut from the same cookie-cutter mold is going to hell.

I always get a laugh at what christ must think about how they are representing him. They say that he is loving, that he forgives all and that to have him in your life means that you will want to live following his teachings. If you read some of the answers from the fundamentalists, they sound more like the devil than christ.

I know what you mean. There are so many crazed bible freaks out there and they piss me off sooo much. And they seem to be the ones to get the medias attention. The only good words I can use to describe them is evil and brainwashed. They distort the words of our Lord and use it to hurt people. The word of God was never meant to put people down. And I am sincerley sorry for any rude insensitive jerks that have given you a piece of their ignorant minds. Its not christians who hate gay people. Its this cult of horrible repulsive people who dont know what their talking about and they’re just making themsleves look like fools. I am a christian but by no means am I a crazed fanatic and a hypocritical lunatic like many christians tend to be. We are all sinners. We have all lied. We probably have all stolen something in our lives. We have premarital sex. We cheat on our boyfriends/girlfriends. We have a variety of sexual orientations. There really is no excuse for these stupid bigots to be judging you. What makes them so high and mighty huh? The best advice I can give is probably just to ignore these stupid hypocrits which I know is very difficult since they call so much negative attention to themselves and seem to enjoy every moment of it. Try your best not to let it get to you. Talk to gay christians. I happen to know many. They will understand you best. Or you can talk to me if you’d like. Im always willing to help. :]

Hey Muzikfitness,

Most religious people do not discriminate against homosexuals. Fortunately, it is only a small undignified minority that does…

Funny enough, it is often precisely those judgmental faithful who could tell you that they are the one’s that are going to Heaven and that gay people will be tortured for eternity.

yes sometimes christians are hyprocites am christian and my chruch talks bad about evrything speacialy bout homosexuality… am not like that I dont judge people. they culd do what ever they want!

‘…it is not right to have same sex relationships other than friendship…?’

Hhhmmm…, perhaps it is none of your business what kind of relationship other people have with each other… yah… it is really really not your business at all…!

“isn’t there a moral conscience in everyone that knows I am female/male therefore attracted to the opposite sex?”

explain how it is immoral…

and Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, if it was so immoral, why didnt he spend some time discussing it?

“Note the number of people responding who are quite obviously looking down on Christians. And people say WE are hypocrites”

sorry, I stand by my right to look down on bigotry…

I do not understand why people who ask for acceptance must accept bigotry… we’re people, not saints… you want acceptance of bigotry, go elsewhere!

Just some food for thought.

I think the most important traits of a Christian are love and faith in God. By “love” I mean love for God and love for our neighbour. However, this should not be confused with love for sin. To love gays and lesbians etc means to refrain from condemning and judging them, simply because nothing makes you any better than them - since you also have your own sins. However, hell breaks loose when a Christian statrts to endorse the act of being gay, which is clearly a sin according to the Bible, or any other sin for that matter. The key idea here is to take sin for what it is as opposed to being in denial. “Gay Christians” should in all honesty realise that homosexuality is a sin (though not the only one) and confess it and ask Jesus to forgive the. More importantly, they should ask Jesus to transform them not only into straight people, but also heirs of God’s kingdom. They should remember that with God, everything is possible.

people will find any excuse for bigotry… the christian religion frowns upon several things people ignore today… they focus on homosexuality because they’re narrow minded bigots and they need an excuse to justify their hatred and pettiness (how else would you explain these idiots who claim to follow a religion that was founded after a guy that preached tolerance and acceptance and yet go around judging people?)

oh I might add, it’s the bigots who find any excuse… bigots come in all colors, religions, etc..

First let me say this. Most cristians dont look down on gay people. Unfortunatly some do. They are not to be degraded bassed on the choice they made. We all make mistakes. If we all looked down on people because they sinned we would all be looked down upon. The bible says that God created sex and marriage as a holy and pure union. This union was to be between a man and a woman. Please dont think of cristians as bad people because some degrade gays.

They look down apon Gays b/c in the bible it says its a sin to be gay and that marraige is to be between a man and woman.

im chritian and I look at gay people the same way I look at you me and anyone else.. I dont care about peoples sexuality its there personnality that counts.:)

Not all of us look down on them we just don’t like their decisions. I don’t really care about their sexuality anymore, after all its not my choice.

Because they think being “different” is wrong.

They believe in whatever the bible says.

I myself am Athiest.

I couldnt imagine being in a religion where they judge on people sexuality.

The bible to me is a rule book which I dont intend to follow.

I dont have a problem with any religion aslong as its not being shoved down

my throat.

Fu*kkk it (:

A lot of Christians (most?) are hypocrites.

The same people making excuses to have straight sex outside marriage will vocally condemn gays…even though biblically, what they are doing is even worse (homosexuality is only referred to a few times total in the entire Bible, whereas extramarital sex is condemned over and over and over, including one of the 10 commandments).

it’s not just christians…people are afraid of change because they are so used to something and familiar with it that once something new comes in the mix,they are terrified. my best friend is gay,and I dont care that he is. as long as he’s happy then its all good.

hey, mister, dont stereotype!! ^_^. lol. and no, I dont believe that christians really ‘look down’ onto “gay” people. its just that the bible says that we shouldnt be homosexual, and that God made man and woman to be together, not man and man, and how that it is a sin if you make love to one of your own sex, and things such as that. im a christian, and I dont look down on gay people. theyre the same as you and I, just with different sexual preferences.

We do not look down on gay people but look down on sin. Homosexuality is a sin, reason for that is that it is an unhealthy lifestyle. What many people wouldnt tell you is that average homosexual have a lifespan of about 40 years.

“There are so many crazed bible freaks out there and they piss me off sooo much.” So you believe that the bible is false and you are the one way to G-d? The wisdom of G-d can not always be understood by man, but it should be recognized.

“What many people wouldnt tell you is that average homosexual have a lifespan of about 40 years. “ tseirpeht werever you got your “facts”from is wrong and if they were right there wouldnt be tens of thousands of old gay men and old lesbians

I didnt say all homosexuals I said most. tens of thousands is not that many. And yes the facts are right, saying they are wrong will not change what is. So your wrong, get over it.

tseirpeht - the “scientific” report that is the basis for your claim of the “fact” of a shorter homosexual life span was not submitted for publication to any respected medical journal, instead it was circulated on the internet. It is a flawed report using dubious research methods by a very conservative christian team, Paul and Kirk Cameron. To quote leading epidemiologist Morten Frisch, MD, PhD, DSc(Med) “The authors should know, and as PhDs they presumably do, that this report has little to do with science. It is hard to escape the idea that non-scientific motifs have driven the authors to make this report public. The methodological flaws are of such a grave nature that no decent peer-reviewed scientific journal should let it pass for publication”

You base your statement on a horribly flawed, unpublished study by conservative Paul Cameron. A man who has been kicked out of every legitimate medical group and cited in court for providing false information.

“The American Psychological Association (APA) launched an investigation into Cameron after receiving complaints about his work from members. The APA President Max Seigel sent Cameron a letter on December 2, 1983 stating that the Board of Directors had decided to drop him from membership for failure to cooperate with their investigation. An APA spokesperson told The Boston Globe in 2005, “We are concerned about Dr. Cameron because we do believe that his methodology is weak.”

“In 1984 the Nebraska Psychological Association issued a statement disassociating itself “from the representations and interpretations of scientific literature offered by Dr. Paul Cameron”. In 1986 the American Sociological Association passed a resolution condemning Cameron for “consistent misrepresentation of sociological research”. This was based on a report from the ASA’s Committee on the Status of Homosexuals in Sociology, which summarised Cameron’s inflammatory statements and commented, “It does not take great analytical abilities to suspect from even a cursory review of Cameron’s writings that his claims have almost nothing to do with social science and that social science is used only to cover over another agenda. Very little of his work could find support from even a bad misreading of genuine social science investigation on the subject and some sociologists, such as Alan Bell, have been ‘appalled’ at the abuse of their work.” In 1996, the Board of Directors of the Canadian Psychological Association approved a position statement disassociating the organisation from Cameron’s work on sexuality, stating that he had “consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism”.

But I should have guessed that you would support such a flawed study, from such a flawed researcher. You are one of those bible thumping, right wing, fundamentalist christians that I mentioned in my previous answer. Your attitude is what helps to give christians a bad name and since you claim that you are a messianic jew, I guess you help to give messianic jews a bad name also.

that relativley new addition to the christian bible is just that, a new addition its recently been added by homofobic people or hardcore religiouse fanatics who beleive everything they dont understand is wrong but there is nothing wrong with being gay/bi/transexual/transgender, ect because being gay doesnt make you any less human however they continue to beleive that its adam and eve, not “adam and steve” and that men should only be with women, and women only men what they fail to understand is if adam and eve really did populate the planet then adam and eve’s children practiced insest by having sex with each other so surely that should be a more talked about thing in there bible right? but no, its not theres no really good explination a christian will give you other than something like “its just wrong, god doesnt like gays, ect” if he made you, he doesnt care what your sexuality is humans are sexual beings as for me im a proud athiest and dont beleive in any god

‘…tens of thousands is not that many…’

Tseirpeht, your level of compassion, and respect for life is moving me to tears…

Your remarks regarding statistics are as ignorant as the uneducated men who invented your morals…!

How dare you judging what’s going on in my bedroom?! Your behaviour is deeply undignified!

“So your wrong, get over it. “

What if your wrong? May I have the link to the website in which you got this ‘fact’ from please. I’d like to see your proof behind this statement of yours.

I have no idea but I think it’s because for some religions they believe that life if ment to reproduce and have a family. gays cant have kids…unfortunately lol. My best friend is gay and he is a great person and I would never think that he’s going to hell because of it

actually its morelike a few million people and its a lot more than you, who is only 1 person and no, you are wrong gay people do not live to an average of 40 years the whole aids thing that went around has forced uneducated people such as yourself to beleive that they will alll die from diseases soon which is just wrong and stupid open your mind a bit and get over it

check out www.gracerevolution.ning.com. they had a great christian teaching about homosexuality. JESUS LOVES GAY PEOPLE! hahaha. yes, I understand that the book of leveticus says that a man should not lie with a man, but it is no different from any other sin. if Jesus died to save me and I am a sinner, then he died to save homosexuals also!

It is not that your pastor is against gay people, he is just preaching the truth. and it takes a very brave person to do that in todays society.

Jesus tells us to love sinners, but hate the sin, and that of course is not the only sin in this world, but, it is one, and a major one at that.

More and more people are going that way, everyday, but, God is trying to bring them back to the right path, if they are willing to hear and heed his counsel.

Christians do not agree with Homosexuality because it is one of the many laws God gave to his people, in the Old Testament. Point blank, that’s the real answer.

Silverwings,

‘…Jesus tells us to love sinners…’

Jesus hasn’t told you anything! You repeat an interpretation of ideas that were written down by uneducated ignorant men. That’s all. You allow yourself to be deluded.

And it is certainly not brave to preach those ideas. Being brave relates to showing courage, not ignorance!

Real Christians do not look down on homosexual people nor do they treat them as any different to anyone else. The bible teaches tha it is a sin but we are all sinners anyway and as far as I am concerned I have better things to be getting on with than judging people for their personal choices. They are not my choices buts that doesnt mean people dont have the right to make them.

One thing I find interesting is how this is a discussion on how many Christians look down on homosexual people. Note the number of people responding who are quite obviously looking down on Christians. And people say WE are hypocrites…

Luthien,

‘… Note the number of people responding who are quite obviously looking down on Christians…’

Sexual orientation is not the result of choice. it is a quality that should be considered as one would consider gender, age or race. To treat homosexuals ‘different’, would be sexual discrimination.

Religious doctrines however, are practiced by choice and the accompanying expressions can be disputed through argument.

Both of the above can be found in this tread.

(by the way, talking about ‘looking down’; you refer to REAL christians. Do they represent a higher order of faithful than ordinary christians? Your remark makes me curious!)