Can you prove or disprove God in Scientific terms?

Dude,

You KNOW that NO ONE can answer it. People are only going to post information that justifies THEIR opinion/belief. If there WAS proof beyond a shadow of a doubt (de ja vu, yeah?) then this subject would no longer be a debate.

I understand your point of view. But can you truly or willingly imagine your consciousness, your life force, just ceasing to exist? All your thoughts, dreams, memories, passions, just vanishing into nothing?

Wouldn’t that… kinda… suck??

Uhhh… Neal??

They just don’t seem to get it. Can they really not understand the question? I mean, you CAN’T be more specific.

It may just look like another excuse for them to… uhh… “spout”

90% of science is theories. . . like evolution it is a theory but some believe it to be fact. . . Not me of course I believe earth Was created by God 6000 years ago.

Why do Christians get so defensive? Why are free-thinkers immediately attacked and called stupid ? When you’re born - you’re a free thinker. You have no pre-conceived thoughts on faith, religion or existence.

I don’t believe in God, the devil, heaven or hell just like I don’t believe in angels, ghosts, fairies, witches, vampires, the easter bunny, Santa Claus, good luck, bad luck, superstitions etc.

Nothing happens when you die. Your life is just extinguished and your corpse rots. There is no glamorous event.

Like I said before you can’t prove God exists and you can’t disprove it. SO the question is just subject to who’s rooting on what team and inviting theists to attack atheists and vice versa.

in the bible god says not to put him to the test or question his existence.

Does anyone have to courage to even attempt to answer it? this could be a good debate if we would get some Answers using the requested criteria.

This whole issue is subjective

You can answer either way but does either way “prove” anything? I don’t think so. I wouldn’t agree with an argument either way.

nooo …please no more essaysss!!!

haha nooo!!

: [

God exists if you believe in him. The End. haha (Why are you so intelligent? You make me feel sooo inferior!!! I’m jealous : ]

All of that is very interesting but it still doesn’t prove or disprove anything. It’s all theories and hypothetical. The supernatural can’t be proved or disproved… that’s why it’s called supernatural.

The supernatural pertains to entities, events or powers regarded as beyond nature, in that they cannot be explained from the laws of the natural world. The supernatural is also a classification for explanations which invoke explanative constructs that in principle are beyond human conception, understanding or verification.

Oop… I hope I didn’t just kill the thread.

Looks like a trade from one relegious text to another. . . . LOCKED

Okay, so can you explain where we all go when we die. To heaven? Then who could have created heaven if God doesn’t exsist?

Okay… where? And where’s your scientific support?

nope god doesnt exist its been confessed that gos was created to give people hope. you can still believ in him if you want

It depends on if you believe that animals are “self-aware’ the way people are.

I guess that’s a WHOLE other thread…

Yes it does suck. lol

One thing that is certain in life - We’ll all die.

I guess they don’t even want to try. . . .

lohvetica God created the Laws of science and you don’t think he put proof of himself in such? I think he put tons of proof in it. all that you have to do is search for it.

You didn’t prove nothing. . .

So where’s the proof of God’s existence? In accordance with our familiar axiom and in light of the tremendous advances we’ve made in molecular biology, biochemistry, genetics and information theory, the proof of God is all around us!

Through the microscope, we observe the E. coli bacterial flagellum. The bacterial flagellum is what propels E. coli bacteria through its microscopic world. It consists of about 40 individual protein parts including a stator, rotor, drive-shaft, U-joint, and propeller. It’s a microscopic outboard motor! The individual parts come into focus when magnified 50,000 times (using electron micrographs). And even though these microscopic outboard motors run at an incredible 100,000 rpm, they can stop on a microscopic dime. It takes only a quarter turn for them to stop, shift directions and start spinning 100,000 rpm in the opposite direction! The flagellar motor has two gears (forward and reverse), is water-cooled, and is hardwired into a signal transduction (sensory mechanism) so that it receives feedback from its environment. (‘Unlocking the Mystery of Life,’ video documentary by Illustra Media, 2002.)

When we apply the general principles of detecting specified complexity to biologic systems (living creatures), we find it reasonable to infer the presence intelligent design. Take, for example, the bacterial flagellum’s stator, rotor, drive-shaft, U-joint, and propeller. It is not convenient that we’ve given these parts these names - that’s truly their function. If you were to find a stator, rotor, drive-shaft, U-joint, or propeller in any vehicle, machine, toy or model, you would recognize them as the product of an intelligent source. No one would expect an outboard motor – much less one as incredible as the flagellar motor – to be the product of a chance assemblage of parts. Motors are the product of intelligent design.

Furthermore, the E. coli bacterial flagellum simply could not have evolved gradually over time. The bacterial flagellum is an ‘irreducibly complex’ system. An irreducibly complex system is one composed of multiple parts, all of which are necessary for the system to function. If you remove any one part, the entire system will fail to function. Every individual part is integral. There is absolutely no naturalistic, gradual, evolutionary explanation for the bacterial flagellum. (Michael Behe, Darwin’s Black Box, 1996.)

The bacterial flagellum (not to mention the irreducibly complex molecular machines responsible for the flagellum’s assembly) is just one example of the specified complexity that pervades the microscopic biological world. Molecular biologist Michael Denton wrote, ‘Although the tiniest bacterial cells are incredibly small, weighing less than 10-12 grams, each is in effect a veritable micro-miniaturized factory containing thousands of exquisitely designed pieces of intricate molecular machinery, made up altogether of one hundred thousand million atoms, far more complicated than any machinery built by man and absolutely without parallel in the non-living world.’ (Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis, 1986, p. 250.)

or

The Strong and Modified Weak Anthropic Principles: Scientific Proof there is a Creator The Anthropic Principles point out that there are over one hundred variables to this Universe, that would have made life as we know it impossible, if they were even slightly different. Either this Universe had to be finely tuned to the conditions that make the evolution of life possible, or there have to be googolplexes of Universes.

Consider the following analogy.

If you went down the street and saw a quarter on the sidewalk, you would think naturally, ‘someone dropped a quarter.’ If you went down the street and saw a handful of quarters on the sidewalk, you would think, ‘Someone had a big hole in their pockets, or dropped a roll of quarters.’ But if you went down the street and saw one hundred quarters on the sidewalk and they were all carefully balanced precariously on their edges, you would have to think somebody did this deliberately. The Universe as we know it, is that carefully balanced. This theory is known as the Strong Anthropic Principle. The only possibility other than this Universe was created, is there are so many universes that the equivalent of one hundred quarters falling out of someone’s pocket and ALL of them ending up balanced on their edges occurred, completely by random chance. This theory is known as the, ‘Weak Anthropic Principle.’ So if you are a rational thinker here are your only two choices. Either this Universe was created , or that there are multitudes of Universes.

Now here is what I call the Modified Weak Anthropic Principle. If there are that many Universes, then the chances of a Being Like God evolving would also be equally increased by all that abundance. Ecological niches tend not to stay empty. You could, of course call such a Being something other than ‘God.’ But if it quacks like a Cosmic Duck and waddles like a Cosmic Duck and builds little universe nests that produce baby Cosmic Ducklings, why not call it a Cosmic Duck? The Blind watchmaker may have started out blind, some universe somewhere, some when, but He/She/It evolved eyes right along with the rest of Life, and you can be quite sure sure, He/She/It will do whatever is necessary to guarantee His/Her/Its own development and continued survival, just the same as any other Life Form would. God does not play dice. He Plays poker, and He continually stacks the deck in His favor! Or, if we say He plays dice, He throws so many some are bound to land with the right numbers up.’

To name just a few of the finely tuned variables that are mentioned in the books, ‘God the Evidence,’ by Patrick Glynn, John Leslie, in Universes’ and from George Greenstein’s ‘The Symbiotic Universe.’

Gravity is roughly 1039 times weaker than electromagnetism. If gravity had been merely 1033 times weaker than electromagnetism, stars would be a billion times less massive and would burn a million times faster. Leslie, page 5.

The nuclear weak force is 1028 times the strength of gravity. Had the weak force been slightly weaker, all the hydrogen in the universe would have been turned to helium (making water impossible, for example). Leslie, page 24. Leslie got this information from P.C. W. Davies, 1980 (Other Worlds), pp. 176-177.

‘A stronger nuclear strong force (by as little as 2 percent) would have prevented the formation of protons, –yielding a universe without atoms. Decreasing it by 5 percent would have given us a universe without stars.’ Leslie, page 4, quoting Hawking, Physics Bulleting: Cambridge, vol. 32, 1980, pp 9-10.

The charges of the electron and proton have been measured in the laboratory and have been found to be precisely equal and opposite. Were it not for this fact the resulting imbalance would force every object in the universe–our bodies, trees, planets, rocks, stars, to explode violently. The Universe would consist solely of a uniform and tenuous mixture not so very different from air. There would be nothing else. Greenstein’s ‘The Symbiotic Universe.’

The very nature of water–so vital to life–is something of a mystery. Unique among the molecules water is lighter in its solid form than its liquid form: Ice floats. If it did not, the oceans would freeze from the bottom up and Earth would be covered with solid ice. This property is traceable to unique properties of the hydrogen atom. Leslie, p 30, quoting Barrow and Tipler pp 143-144. CF Debtys Wilkinson, Our Universes (New York: Columbia University Press, 1991), pp 171-172.

The synthesis of carbon–the vital core of all organic molecules–on a significant scale involves what scientists view as an astonishing coincidence in the ratio of the strong force to electromagnetism. This ratio makes it possible for carbon-12 to reach an excited state of exactly 7.65 MeV at the temperature typical of the center of stars, which creates a resonance involving helium-4. beryllium-8 and carbon-12–allowing the necessary binding to take place during a tiny window of opportunity 10-17 seconds long.’ Wilkinson, pp 181-183. See also John Gribbon and Martin Rees, Cosmic Coincidences (New York: Bantam, 1989 pp. 243-247.

A remarkable feature of the Universe is its emptiness. Stars are extraordinarily distant from one another. However, were it not for these vast reaches of empty space, violent collisions between stars would be so frequent as to render the Universe uninhabitable. The yet more frequent near misses would detach planets from their orbits around their suns, flinging them off into interstellar space where they would quickly cool to hundreds of degrees below zero. Greenstein’s, ‘The Symbiotic Universe.

THE GAIA AND HYPER-GAIA HYPOTHESES

The Gaia Hypothesis states that all the life forms on Planet Earth work together to keep the planet life-bearing. There is much evidence for this. The heat output of the Sun has changed much down through the ages, and yet the temperature of our planet has maintained the narrow range necessary to maintain Life.

The level of atmospheric gasses has also remained, for the most part, a steady constant despite changing conditions. This is extremely important. If there were not enough oxygen in the atmosphere, fauna would die. If there were too much oxygen and not enough carbon dioxide and methane, plants would die and the atmosphere would be so flammable, fires would overrun the Earth.

Too much of both oxygen and carbon dioxide would also be fatal. But a third gas, methane, (produced by termites and digestion) is just abundant enough to keep the oxygen and carbon dioxide levels in check.

Some kind of biological feedback system must be working to keep all this balanced. As of yet, there is no evidence Gaia is sentient, but She is biological. I strongly suspect that any sufficiently advanced Gaia would evolve into Sentience.

More about the Gaia Hypothesis at

http://www.gaianet.f…

I believe in what I call the Hyper-Gaia Hypothesis, that all or some of the Gaias in the Universe or Multiverse work together, to keep the Universe or Multiverse Life Bearing just as life on Earth works to keep Earth life bearing. This is a simple, logical, rational explanation for the Strong and Modified Weak Anthropic Principle, and for the testimony of billions of people, (the author included) who have felt a loving ‘PRESENCE’ when engaged in loving, submissive and welcoming prayer towards Christ, or Whatever the individual chooses to call Him/Her/It.

An article in the December 2001, Reader’s Digest on page 141 on brain scan images of people experiencing the Divine indicates that feeling this PRESENCE is neither epilepsy nor Schizophrenia. We are hardwired to interact with what we call God, and you can be sure that, as with everything we are hard wired to experience, it has survival value.

Phase I Of Evolution and Beyond

The biggest leap forward in evolution occurred when different life forms learned to cooperate with one another. We went from being single celled organisms to multicellular organisms and from that major change grew all the variety we see around us. Love and cooperation, not competition, is what drives much of evolution, and among other things, ‘God is Love.’

I propose that the term, ‘supernatural’ does not mean ‘antinatural.’ God is as natural a Being as any other life form. I propose as Teilhard De Chardin did, that if the evolutionary process really is so strong that Humans and Whales can evolve from pond scum in just five billion or so years, God is perfectly capable of evolving in ten billion or so years. The pond scum did not even know where it was going and it had no will. We at least have a vague idea of where we are going, and we have the desire. Heaven also is buildable because Humanity is so tenacious we get what we want eventually. We saw birds fly we learned to build machines that let us fly. We saw the Moon, we went there. We want to live forever, we evolve into God and build Heaven, just as we built Manhattan, the Kennedy Space Center and Disney World. To understand the Universe, all of space and time, one must see it as a whole. The next five billion years are every bit as real as the five billion years that have just come. The Universe (and us) are works in progress and nowhere near finished yet. We are looking at a half unfinished construction site and seeing a mess. Do not judge any construction site by what it looks like while still half finished. Judge it only by its finished state. God is the natural result of a perfectly natural process we can understand. Every link in the long evolutionary chain is the natural result of the link right before it, one stair step after another, one long and difficult but far from impossible climb. The journey is difficult and often painful but I believe the results are well worth it!

The laws of Biology teach us that survival of the fittest favors a nurturing God. Sea turtles lay many eggs and then abandon them. Alligators lay many eggs and guard them carefully. Sea turtles are very endangered. Alligators are prospering. Survival of the fittest favors both a God who multiplies enormously and a God who nurtures His offspring. We can be sure God did not ‘wind up the Universe’ and abandon it, as some Deists claim. The nurturing of offspring is a survival technique that works. He sticks around to guard His ‘nest.’ Survival of the fittest also favors One who doesn’t do too much for His children. Interfere too much and evolution ceases to be efficient, and we would have no motivation to grow up into the Head. Death must occur so there is room for evolution. Suffering must also occur so we may learn compassion for our fellow ‘cells of God,’. It is more important that we learn love and compassion than any other lesson we could possibly learn. Without love and compassion we cannot evolve into He Who Is Love. It is also important that we are motivated to continue to learn medicine and other sciences. We are His past. He is our future.

More proof of God: Ecological niches. An ecological niche is the part of an ecological system that a particular life form occupies. There are predator niches, prey niches, plant niches, etc. Ecological niches tend not to stay empty. For example on the Galapagos Islands, the ecological niche of ‘woodpecker’ was empty. So a little bird called the ‘Darwin’s Finch’ moved in and took that niche. They are one of natures few tool using birds. Lacking the ability to peck like woodpeckers, they actually fashion twigs into poking tools to pry insects out of the bark of trees. If necessary, even tools become part of evolution. We can be sure if the ecological niche of ‘God’ really was empty for some reason, some Life Form would move in to fill the empty niche. As a friend of mine admitted, ‘There is probably a waiting line.’

“…you’ll never get out alive.”

You cannot. That is what faith is. Faith is believing in something without having to see proof. The Bible is proof. Little miracles of everyday life are proof.

God is not science. You cannot make it this way. Just as you cannot make a goat a tree or a fish a bird.