Atheism

So what if you can’t see him…that isn’t the point. You shouldn’t have to be able to see you should believe he is there. I believe in God, I accept Jesus as my savior. I’m not going to tell you to go to church because you have your own beliefs…I believe he is there and that there is a place after death…I wouldn’t want to be floating around after death…or just in the coffin with nothing. I have hopes that Heaven is real…and that is a place I would like to go.

God supposedly created the world, and being omniscient, knew how it would end up - unbelievers, sinners, etc. He made them - or caused them to come into being - exactly as they are, then blamed them for being the way they were made?

And before you say “oh, but people have free will” - are you saying your god isn’t omniscient enough to know what people would choose to do based on the environment he created?

I’ll grant the point about deists - this doesn’t work too well if you have an uninvolved, uninterested god.

I think you’ll find that practically nobody who worships a god or gods believe they’re not omniscient - that’s part of the point of god worship - if they’re not really omnipotent, why worship them?

Ok, forgive me for dissecting your response, but only your first sentence is relevant to my point. Your second sentence would only be valid if I had conceded that this is indeed what most believe. Sorry if it sounds pedantic but I already did get the point you made and that’s why I chose to respond in the first place.

My only issue with you is that you believe MOST religious people think this way. I’ve never seen any evidence of that, except with low IQ extremists. They don’t count. Most religious people believe that man does have free will. Deists believe that their god never intervenes. So the problem is, your entire argument falls on god being omnipotent/omniscient and behaving in an anthropomoric manner.

It is amazing to me how many things people believe in that they cannot prove or see, but then when it comes to God, the fact that it cant be proven without doubt is suddenly a good reason to not believe it.

I can’t prove without doubt love, sadness, or what I see in my dreams, but I know they are real. Prove to me a dream that you had. Machines hooked up to someones brain while they are sleeping may prove brain activity but not the content of the dream. You could never prove to me what your dream was about so I could just call you crazy and say you made it up. What about people who don’t remember their dreams? Do they go around saying dreams must not exist and expect proof? Not sane people. Some people don’t believe in love either, they just think it is purely a chemical response to stimuli.

Why then do people want so much proof for God? One of my favorite quotes, “the greatest lie the devil ever told was convincing the world he didn’t exist.” He did that so people don’t know why they are having such a hard time seeing the proof.

Either only believe in what you can see, or admit there are things in this world that can’t be absolutely proven. I don’t know why people pick and choose to their liking rather than caring about the truth, I guess life is easier that way, but far from worth it, not to mention really hypocrtical.

However, people will make their choice regardless of tons of proof, so, good luck to everyone and God bless!

we’ll itz one of thoz thangz ya gotta believe wit out seein. I was put nta a luthran school until now so it getz pounded inta your head but wut they always told me was that it aint god duin all tha crap, itz satan. but I don’t know

miscegenymiser: And skeptics only believe in that which has evidence to back it up - which would put them down as “physicalists” in your taxonomy, yet doesn’t imply having “made your mind up” about anything except that we can understand the world by using an evidence-based approach.

Many atheists actually come to faith in Christ, by trying to prove that he does not exist. I hope you will find this true in your own life.

God bless…

oh, and arachnid, read the question. It clearly states, how can you believe in someone you cant see who has brought so much pain to the world. So there is someone “doing that” right there.

actually, I do blame myself for the way the world is. I blame myself and every other person in the world because we did this to ourselves.

“first of all when you spell God use a capital letter”
In the jewish faith it is sacrilegious to write the name of god…so I don’t use capitals or I write it as G-d.

“if you wonder why christians love God its b/c he 1st loved us” No, he 1st loved us, the jews… :)

“read the Bible you’ll learn smething” right back at you…

pinkpearl: Because most peoples’ conception of a god is one that’s omnipotent and omniscient, and could do those things - he just, for some inscrutable reason, never ever does. I’m trying to point out that any being that can do absolutely anything, yet refuses to intervene in even the most atrocious events - and furthermore, set things up so those events would happen - doesn’t fit too well with the ‘benevolent god’ image.

luthien: Really? I haven’t seen anyone do that. Perhaps you’re thinking of people blaming religion itself for the atrociites it inspires? That doesn’t require a god to exist - just people that believe one does.

do you know what I find a little strange? How many people on here do not believe in God, and yet they blame all the worlds problems on Him. Cant really have it both ways you know.

lol arachnid!

you know there is a third alternative… a non interfering God… Look up Deism…

As for why people believe, it is faith, up to you whether or not to believe…

“atheist will go to Hell just to let you all know. ;0”

And all Christians will go to Stovokor for eternal torment by klingons!

Bet you’re terrified now! Oh, wait, you don’t believe in Stovokor, do you? Hmm…

Now what’s all this about God supposedly fixing things with a click of his fingers?

LOL, arachnid… I am not religious, but in my most heated debates, it has never occured to me that people with faith in their God believe that with a snap of the creator’s fingers, he can save them from a burning wreck or make sure they buy the right mutual funds…

This is not the image of a god that most spiritual people hold - so why target it?

“Y should God get blamed for all the evil in the world???”

Because he (supposedly) set the whole thing up. Being omnipotent means he can set things up however he wants - which would include lesser or absent suffering, etc.

“If you wants someone to blame for all your pain, its not God that your shud blame is the prince of darkness causeing all of it”

But God’s the one (supposedly) causing it all - being omniscient, he knew all this would happen from the start. He could ‘fix’ things with a click of his fingers, yet doesn’t.

Y should God get blamed for all the evil in the world??? Didnt he give us is only Son to die for our sins??? does no1 know that the devil is the ruler of this age and will be untill then end of days when God comes back to claim what is his???

If you wants someone to blame for all your pain, its not God that your shud blame is the prince of darkness causeing all of it, turn to God and he will help you deal with it!!!

Arachnick: Yeah!… I think you get the gist of it. Evidence being naturally physical.

Metaphysics philosophers would argue that all things observed are done so through the observer’s mind and therefore are susceptible to misperception. The construct of the mind being unknown… the interpretation of reality may have unknown factors affecting what is perceived. You can only know what is real to you… in fewer words.

“We werent made this way. Adam and Eve werent made sinners, they choose to be.”

Right, but your god, being omniscient, knew that if he set things up as he did, that’s exactly what they would choose to do. In which case he was basically setting them up to fail from the beginning.

Seems like we are again stuck in the rut of defining reality. If you are a physicalist and you set reality in the parameters of those things which can be physically observed… you will find it a hard course to believe in a god.

Dualists consider abstractions on par with corporeality.

Idealists maintain that mind is reality.

People who insist that one is correct, are actually telling you how they have settled their minds, [or brains… as it were] on the problem of reality.

* but then when it comes to God, the fact that it cant be proven without doubt is suddenly a good reason to not believe it.

It isn’t that it can’t be proven without doubt that makes it false, it’s that there is no credible evidence for your god whatsoever, combined with the knowledge that your god concept evolved from anthropomorphizing celestial objects, combined with the fact that what we observe is inconsistent with claims of a creator god, combined with the fact that the creator god is almost always defined in contradictory terms.

Theists tend to come up with contorted arguments as to why god isn’t responsible for evil, and claim that their own inner voice is the voice of god.

I was channel surfing tonight and ran across one of those religious stations, and some whackjob was talking about how the lord works in mysterious ways. There’s some sheister scam artist faith healer who physically assaults people because god told him to, and that they are healed by this attack. I’m all for separation of church and state, but that guy needs a straight jacket.

I hella believe you too. the whole thinq is way too subliminal for even human minds to reqister. I think people believe in God because,really, he’s just a pseudonym; a fiqure of much hiqher authority that people rely on for their own inner tranquility. &and people have no PROOF that he’s real. if they say; look in the Bible..who knows if a random person didn’t just MAKE UP the bible. as some kind of story and joke a long time ago and died before they had a chance to say.? I don’t qet how people just don’t think about these thinqs…there’s too many wronqs in the whole God thinq to make a right. but TWO rights do make an airplane.<3

We werent made this way. Adam and Eve werent made sinners, they choose to be. and believers are sinners too. We as human beings wont understand why everything He done, and no matter how much we study and try. Thats were faith comes in, and im sorry your dont have that faith. but I do and thats why when I die I will be rewarded. God is omniscient, and what is happening and what your arguement is why is he doing it? Its all part of His plan, for a better heaven and earth. and im glad to be part of it.

God is real. I hope you find him. Without faith it is impossible to please God.

I belive in god but I undestand what you mean

johnsmith1. You actually wish ill will on them and where they will go after death? Nice…real nice.

I am too. but for different reasons. jesuscansuckittt. :] I’m my own religion now.

yes but he also give them away out as well. Jesus.

But God’s the one (supposedly) causing it all - being omniscient, he knew all this would happen from the start. He could ‘fix’ things with a click of his fingers, yet doesn’t.

God cant stand sin and doesnt want anything to do with it, unbelievers have no relationship with God at all, So why would he help someone that 1. Hasnt recieved his son as their savour. 2. Dont believe in him. 3. curse God. and 4. blame him for all evil.

Bad things also happen to believers, but the differnece is we believe God will help us through them as he promised, we were also told we would be tested in our faith.

I myself am an atheist. I believe that all religions have been made to save people from insanity. People wonder so much how the world was created and almost lose their sanity trying to figure it out. Therefore, they made something up. Boom there is one “God” and Boom there is another and another. It is all creative thinking I give them that. I don’t think they would ever blame their “God” for the defects of the world because their “god” is too high and mighty for that. They sure aren’t going to blame themselves for it either. That is where all of those problems have come from. You have made a very good statement but if you really wanted to have people take you seriously you might want to pass a spelling test first.