What if we're BOTH wrong?

Well honestly my issue with Pascal’s wager is that it presumes that belief is a choice. Which it isnt. But, yes, you’re right. There’s nothing that says that their God will be the right God. But when your mind only pictures one God and thus has a hard time grasping the possibility of another God, I dont think you can think about that.

I’d be okay with being a smurf in another land. Just saying. And hey, I mean if I’m wrong because I don’t believe in some god that may or may not exist, so are millions of other people. I’m not too concerned with what happens after death, I have no reason to worry about it because it doesn’t affect my here and now. Sure, I think about it, but I don’t obsess over it. Bring on the smurfdom!

was trying to get to that, however it went straight to statis updates :(

man trying to know god is harder than an amoeba trying to know man. all those who say they know the TRUTH are just hustling you and me. simply follow your conscience and you’ll be just fine.

Than we’d all be screwed.

well hey what if peanut butter was jelly?????? you have a human spirit that is created by god, and god is not cruel he gave you all the tools you need to seek him out,

Philosophers have pointed out so many problems with Pascal’s Wager over the years that it’s a wonder some people still use it during theological discussion. One of the problems I’ve always had is that it assumes the theist, or believer, suffers no consequences for a life spent in the pursuit of an illusion. Another problem is that it basically reduces religious beliefs to an insurance policy: the point of embracing the theist’s view in Pascal’s Wager is to avoid eternal punishment, not to work for the betterment of humanity or discover truth.

But the most obvious problems are the ones you pointed out: it assumes there is only one brand of theism, it assumes a religious tradition where the supreme deity would punish non-believers eternally for their atheism, and it also assumes that supreme deity would reward someone eternally simply for believing in god. Interestingly, not even most forms of Christianity teach this.

good answer! but i still think like Lenny Bruce who said something like, “Anyone who calls himself ‘religious’ and owns two pairs of shoes while someone else has none is a hustler.”

There are several holes in this theory. A believer only becomes a believer after an event or occurrence or something proves their belief to be accurate and true. Otherwise they are simply a follower. If, in fact, one believes in this deiity, there should be substantial reasons then, to obey, learn from and glorify said deity. The believer often suffers much consequence because they are fervant in their belief. If this deity is worthy to be called such, then his intelligence would be so that simply believing would be considered only following. For the non-believers, the implication is that they were offered and rejected the truth and thus gave up their chance of paradise; it does not incorporate into it the fact that the deity may also be merciful and make several other attempts to offer the gift. Just some thoughts…thanks.

You wil see that’s kind of what I stated in another question of mine. One can only believe what the mind accepts

As for “rejecting the truth”, 1, who are you to say that it is truth? Yes, I will ask for evidence if you’re going to state that it is. Also, we don’t “reject it”, again, one can only believe what the mind accepts. If we do no be;lieve it’s not becuz we choose not to or choose to “reject”, we simply can NOT believe in it. It’s as simple as that, point blank. thank

We CAN do whatever we CHOOSE to do. We can change our emotions ourselves, we can change our minds ourselves, we can change our dislikes and likes ourselves, we can reason things out for ourselves and in the end, we decide and are accountible for ourselves. There is only one catalyst that I can think of that would cause someone to turn away from the truth, and that is fear of the truth. The mind, on the whole, accepts whatever we tell it to but the mind registers the truth or reality of a situation long before our consciousness does. Have you ever heard of a person getting caught cheating and talking their way out of it? There must be convincing statements made to prove and support the lie but the bottom line is the person who got cheated on doesn’t WANT to DESIRE to believe the truth so then the lie becomes acceptable. We begin to justify, “I mean, we all lie right?”

60 years ago some minds may not have registered the truth of our ability to create of a computer, but others did. The truth is reality, (past, present, future makes no difference), and no one can change that. Either something is, or it isn’t and I am not accountible for what anyone else believes. The bible does say, however, that certain people cannot believe the truth because the truth is not in them…I think thats because they are afraid. Just my opinion but I’d just as soon have the truth than someone making me waste what little life I have left.

This is just what I’ve learned myself sweetie and I am no one honestly. Just a person who came to a point of being sick and tired of people saying they knew who didn’t and in some cases it cost me alot because I believed them. When I was 26 things that I thought I could control I found that I couldn’t. I was in desparate need of the truth and then I had to examine where I may find it cause it sure wasn’t anywhere around me. I found a source and I have not been lead astray to waste my time. The truth, if you over the fear of it, does truly set you free. It is okay if I’m wrong, I’m just human but its not okay if I continue to do the same things wrong. That makes me nuts. This is the discipline and in it I have become a better person.

You’re a very smart person, I can tell and your mind is thirsty for knowledge. If that is what you seek, you will find it. You are created, according to the bible, in the likeness of God therefore you have great ability. This is what I believe.

Beliefs can change. At least mine did. Knowing what you believe and why isn’t an easy thing because it is a very important thing. You can choose and not choosing, is a choice. It is only logical to believe that there is one above all others. It is the heirarchy to life itself. There will be someone bigger, better, more powerful…until there is not.

Do YOUR children own more than two pairs of shoes?

If were both wrong then everyone simply dies and the argument stops. If one of us is right, then one dies and one lives. It’s as simple as that. The reason for the belief isn’t because of “insurance”; it is because of love. You know, the kind of love you get from your parents or your spouse when they know you’ve done something awful and you feel horrible for doing it; you know you don’t deserve their forigveness, hell why should they waste their time on someone like you anyway? But they do because they love you and they forgive you and they give you another chance. Thats why we believe. Because of love.

I’m not reilgious, i don’t pretend to be. I just think more like a Lenny Bruce than like a Jim Jones. Would you rather die laughing or die from strychnine? btw, wish this box had spell-check. Had to look up “strychnine’,but learned a bonus lesson doing so: its chemical name is C21H22N2O2.

A perfect being canNOT create anything of any mere perfection. It is claimed the biblical God is perfect, flawless, there for he made man without any flaws. From whence came flaw then. I know the fall from Eden, however, they could not of made a mistake, they could NOT of CHOSE to do WRONG without the seed FIRST being implanted in them, thus pointing to the create being flawed.

Also, as for the truth, I’ld love to believe I’ld continue to exist after this life in some form, whether by inheriting the earth or even torture dare I say. Ceasing to exist, the death of the essence scares me, but I am willing to accept the truth if that be what it is. I personally believe in reincarnation, which also scares me a bit(for fear of loosing loved ones and having to find news ones, etc, no grantee how the next life will be). I would like to believe something of luxury after we die, believe you me, if I could I probably would believe in something along those lines. I wouldn’t have to take responsibility for my actions, I could just say the devil made me do it. If I did anything of sin I could just ask for forgiveness and not worry about repenting or to much of the consequences. I would take lussure in believing and “knowing” peace awaits for me after I die, however, my mind does not accept that. Again, not out of fear, but it’s the mere fact that I do not and I cannot bring myself to. I use to be that way but have stepped out of that belief long ago. Right now I’m believing more of what I once feared to believe in, not becuz I choose to, but becuz that is what my mind accepts. Perhaps it is you who needs to move past fear and accept “truth”

“This is what I believe.” Exactly. It is what YOU choose to believe in. So do not go around saying it as if it is definite truth without evidence for those accusations. Describe it as your personal truth, but if you’re going to claim it as fact, I’m going to demand proof.

stop thinking so hard, you don’t wanna get brain sprain. what’s ‘lussure?’

stop thinking so hard, you don’t wanna get brain sprain. what’s ‘lussure?’

wa?

Adam and Eve could have chosen The Tree of Life. If you were God, would you want to end up with a group of people that you had to force into loyalty and a group that were loyal because they wanted to be? I did not state anything other than what the bible says so if you have an issue with that, I’m afraid I can’t help you. It says what it says. One of the first things that true Christians learn is to “not lean to our own understanding”. I lost my opinions a long time ago. I can be wrong and I’m okay with that. I’m a mere mortal, but God cannot. After all, it’s HIS deal, HIS story, HIS way and He will prove whatever you need Him to. Try it and see, alone but in sincerity because you just want the truth. You’ll have your proof if that is what you seek. My apologies, truly, if I offended you in anyway.

Excellent answer!!! LOL!!! And not in a good way.