Testing of Jesus

Flossheal, I understand what you are trying to say with the lifegaurd analogy. But I have the knowledge that grabbing the lifebelt is required if I want to be saved, so the analogy only makes sense if you accept the premise that I don’t understand what or how a lifebelt works. I understand the concept of being saved, but being there is no proof of god or salvation, I am not going to pretend to believe just because a lot of other people believe it too. Maybe there are just some people in this world who cannot believe something with out proof. Do you think they deserve to be damned because of it?

You say it is a matter of choice, but to me, there is no choice. I could choose to SAY that I believe, and go through the motions, but it would not make me truly believe. I have never seen anything that would ever make me believe, so why would I. Just because I was taught it as a child? It is not choice, it is just a fact that I can’t ignore. No offense (I have said the same thing to my wife), but to truly believe requires a suspension of reality.

Yes, I think we can see our high points and low points in these scriptures.

It was a very high point in Jesus life, when the spirit descended upon him Like a dove… and it had to be a very low point… when he had to go thru the testing that he did, right after his baptism…

Satan came to him… while he was weak… and hungry… in other words.. he comes to devour… when we are at our weakest point.

Forty days… of fasting.. had to leave him very weak, and this is exactly when Satan decided to try him…

Notice too that he put an “If”… in front of each of his temptations…

Trying to plant doubt… just as he does today.

Vs 3, he tempeted Jesus to use his power… to satisfy himself.

But, Jesus did not fall for that, even though he was severely hungry.

Satan asked him to turn the stones.. into bread.

Jesus came back with… It is written… Showing how much stock he put in Gods word…

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Then… he tempted him to throw him self to the ground, from a very high place, Jesus knew that the angels… could have, caught him… but, he also knew that this was a misuse of the power that was within him, so, again, he answered…

It is written… You shall not tempt the Lord, thy God.

Satan.. being the bully that he is… still was not thru with him…

Now, he promises Jesus a kingdom that is not even his to give… A worldly Kingdom…

Satan shows his main desire… and that is to be worshipped…

And he is fool enough to think that he might in some way sway, the very Son of God.

Jesus knew is mission… and he was not about to surrender his will to that of his enemy.

Again.. he states… It is written… You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.

This time, Satan gives up… and leaves… for a season.

The angels come and minister to Jesus.

Then… when he is recooperated… he starts his earthly ministry…

Declaring that the Kingdom of Heaven… is at hand.

And his word was the same then, as it is today… Repent.

Meaning to turn away from what is evil, and to turn to him…

for the cleansing of your sin.

His promise is to make all things, brand new…

And that is exactly what happens when you experience the New Birth…

I don’t understand why it would’ve been so evil though, for Jesus to feed himself… And surely, if he had of thrown himself off a building and been picked up by angels all the people who saw would’ve instantly believed in the Lord, and therefore been more inclined to follow His teachings. I don’t understand what’s so bad about that.

But I’m interested to see why the fact that it was done before makes it irrelevant…

I think you’re talking about fasting in the wilderness, Silverwings. Am I right?

“Satan shows his main desire… and that is to be worshipped…”

Silverwings, isn’t that god’s main desire too? I mean if you are a good person and do good deeds, but the only thing you did wrong was not believe in something as incredible as a god because it was never revealed to you, you will be damned to hell for eternity. Sounds like worship is much more important than being a good person.

flossheal, why is the hard way more honest? My wife is a believer and she didn’t come to that through any hardship. Are you saying her faith is less than those who sturggle to reach that point? If it is a test, I don’t understand why. I know you are one of the more rational among the believers, but I don’t understand why he would require belief in him in order to be saved. That does not sound like a loving god.

I think it’s about ‘the easy way out’ and the hard way, which is more honest. Life is difficult. If people believe because of flashy events, they have found their faith the easy way and could loose it just as easily. If people come to faith as part of a struggle and after much soul-searching, their faith is deeper and more real. That applied to Jesus, struggling in the desert, and for anyone who would have seen Him do those flashy miracles. The miracles He did go on to do had a different ‘feel’ to them - feeding, healing, helping or showing God’s relationship with nature. He never got into doing impressive things just to get people to believe, and in fact refused several times to do that when asked.

Most are familiar with the attacks Satan gave to Christ by challenging Him saying, “if thou art the Son of God…”. The part I think you’re refering to is When Christ was lead into the desert to be tempted. Scripture says that, “He was tempted in everyway as we are tempted and yet was without sin.” That was during the 40days before the temptations that I mentioned before, and right after His baptism in the Jordan. More specifically Christ was more than likely experiencing every single temptation that mankind has ever gone through.

Thanks - good answer. I hoped you’d reply. Well, you live in the US, so you and are are clearly ‘divided by a common language’! In Europe a living Christian faith is by no means the norm, and I’ve been considered an amusing oddity in England and now a foreigner (so that’s my excuse) here in France.

It seems to me that here in Europe the easy way is to vaguely believe that there’s probably some kind of power out there, but frankly there’s nothing we should be doing about it. To believe in a God who actually expects us to look at His world and say that: ‘things are not right, justice is not being done, get up off your backsides and meet the needs of the world!’ takes quite a lot of courage. To believe that there’s no particular meaning in life is not particularly courageous to me. To accept that there is purpose and we’d better get on with it seems like the brave choice. That purpose may not be spiritual, I agree. But to me there’s extra courage involved in opening up to God - it’s to do with being slightly out of control of your life, isn’t it, and we don’t like to give up control.

And I totally agree with you about your last paragraph.

I think it involves accepting that there are real things which are beyond our understanding and current comprehension. That’s not quite the same as a suspension of reality, more what scientists do when they dare to dream beyond the boundaries of what is currently understood, in order to develop their theories and understanding to a new level.

But I would never advocate that you pretend to believe in something just because someone had told you there was something to gain from doing so! It’s not about pretence, more about being brave enough to open your mind to possibilities that are beyond normal understanding. I’m sure you do that in some ways, anyway. And I’m prepared to accept that some Christian behaviour makes you unwilling to consider that there could be a spiritual reality behind what we do.

Well, jimhal, my life has been pretty easy too, so I’m not suggesting that you have to suffer to gain real faith, but I do think that faith is not handed to us on a plate. Your wife and I have both made the choice to believe, and were presumably not forced into it by incontravertable evidence (‘flashy miracles’), but instead by a steady stream of experience, seeking, learning and by testing our faith in real life. That’s perhaps not ‘hard’ in terms of hardship, but it is quite difficult to keep on going, and shows real faith instead of ‘easy come, easy go’ amazement in David Blaine-style performances. So I don’t question your wife’s faith any more than mine - I think that it probably has been gained the hard way, even if without hardship, if you see what I mean.

There are hundreds of analogies which can throw light on your other question, but I don’t imagine you’re going to like any of them. The most obvious one I can think of is that your statement is analogous to saying: ‘I can’t see why a loving lifeguard would require me to grab the lifebelt in order to be rescued. Surely a loving lifeguard could save me without my participation.’ God has thrown us the lifebelt - we make the choice to take it. That’s facile but not inaccurate to my understanding of Jesus’ gift to us. It’s available to all but we do have free choice.

Very good question. How is it even possible?

Who is deleting my posts, and why?