How come so many people ask about God?

slapintheface87: The arguments about probability don’t work - you can’t sensibly argue about the probability of something that has already happened. A comparable argument:

The chances of a person living long enough to have children, who themselves survive past infancy is low - not much higher than 50%. Let’s be generous and say it’s 75%. So the chance that your parents survived and had children, and the chances that their parents survived, and so on to, say, 100 generations, are tiny - .75^100, or just 1 in 1,000,000,000,000! Clearly, this probability is too low to be chance. The only plausible explanation is that babies are actually delivered by storks. Math doesn’t lie.

I’m sure you can see the fallacy here. The same applies to arguing “what are the chances of the universe being suitable for our kind of life?”

“How come these products of evolution are not evolving anymore?”

They are. Evolution is very slow, however - it occurs over generations. In the case of long-lived creatures like humans, we’re hard-pressed to observe it in our own lifetimes. In the case of short-lived creatures like bacteria, it’s easy to see.

Your probability dismissal proves MY point exactly. It seems almost impossible! How can such species survive for so long without a master plan?

You also state that humans evolve at an extremely slow rate, and yet there is no fossil record of creatures transforming from fish to amphibian to mammal. Neither are there records of transformations from primate to human. In fact, if you want to be truly scientific, Newton’s third law states that all systems break down over time. Evolution is the only scientific “system” that states that things increase in complexity over time.

Want more? The whole concept of life evolving from the primordial soup (which is the beginning of the evolution theory) has been proven to be physically impossible. The alignment of amino acids, protein molecules, etc. in the right sequence, combining to create one functional molecule are estimated to be I chance in a ten with sixty zeros after it. How can this happen w/o some master designer?

If you were to ask me, it seems more logical that God does exist.

Besides, you never answered my question. Why not try to challenge your beliefs?

You were asking for cold hard facts, and I do not blame you. I gave you the fact that statistically, God is strongly favored. You did not dismiss this point, but only supported it by providing more probability impossibilities. If you are still not satisfied, or at least interested in what I have to say, then it is obvious that you are lying to yourself. You say that you are reasonable, and will listen if logic prevails. Math is logic. However, I do not think that you can get over the thought that God could truly exist. if so, then at least be honest with yourself. Do not say that you are basing this atheist opinion on reason, but on something else. Whether it be fear for the unknown, pride for your current views, or an underdeveloped viewpoint on the universe.

If you do still believe that you have not seen enough proof, may I suggest a book. Now do not run, for it does have the word “Faith” in it. It is a book that discusses the questions that a tough-minded skeptic would ask (that’s where some of the above facts come from). It is called “The Case for Faith” by Lee Strobel. If you are serious about actually pursuing a logical approach on Christianity, then I strongly suggest it. Lee Stobel was an atheist when he wrote this book, and sought to prove God did not exist. However, in researching it, he saw the overwhelming evidence of God and…changed his mind.

If you are not serious, but only like to think that you would consider logic if it is handed to you, or does not contradict your principles, then so be it. I am not here to judge you, but I am here to offer a challenge. Invest work to develop your answer. Do not form an opinion on something as important as religion without a full investigation.

here in the usa we have things I like to call ‘freedoms’ speech&&&religion are on that list

suckitjesusimmyownreligionnow

Dear silverwings,

               You talk a lot. About nothing.

You basically just told everyone they’re pretty much wrong. And, in my eyes…slightly hypocritical. You said it was FUNADVICE…not TELLPEOPLETHEY’REWRONG.

I think that you asking others why they are asking about “god” is asking about “Him” yourself, so therefore you are just as idiotic. It’s not nice to call people names, wouldn’t that offend “God”.. Oh tear :(

They are. Evolution is very slow, however - it occurs over generations. In the case of long-lived creatures like humans, we’re hard-pressed to observe it in our own lifetimes. In the case of short-lived creatures like bacteria, it’s easy to see.

Why do they always have to be reminded of that?

silverwings: My argument is reductionist: The theist says “look at the sunset! look at the landscape! it must be God!”, to which I am responding “no, it’s a set of physical laws interacting”. Everything we see around us we can either explain scientifically or we will be able to when we have a better understanding of the subject. God is not necessary to explain these things.

Then, of course, you say “but where did these laws come from”? This is a “god of the gaps” argument - anything that we haven’t yet explained must be God’s doing! I’m confident, however, that science will continue to provide better and more complete explanations for how the universe works, and how it came into being. There’s no need to invoke an omniscient being to ‘explain’ it all, and indeed, it doesn’t add any explanatory power, since you can’t make any predictions based on it.

Not everybody has the same religion, and everybody has a right to believe in what they want to. Some people are confused about God, some people don’t understand how it’s possible he existed…let people ask what they want to, and don’t judge anybody. You’re here to help, not to call people idiots. Unless they are breaking the rules, you have no right to complain!

slapintheface87: That’s more or less my point. Why would I believe in something that has absolutely no evidence to support its validity? I really would like to see the independent historical references to Jesus and biblical events you mention, though.

“I do have a question for you though. How can you look at the mountains of alaska, or the sunset over the Pacific, and not think that there is something larger than us who created it all? You don;t have to answer, but it would be nice to know someones counter-argument.”

Natural processes are completely sufficient to explain all of this, beautiful as it is. In fact, I find it all the more beautiful knowing that they’re the incredibly complex outcome of some very (conceptually) simple rules acting together. Emergent complexity is amazing. I certainly don’t see any need to invoke a supernatural agency.

arachnid:

you are asking the impossible. I am a Christian myself and cannot give you textile evidence that what I am doing is true. However, if you were to ask me whether I would bet my life and everyone I knows lives my beliefs, I could say with extreme confidence that I would.

This is why people are so hesitant of religion. They want physical proof of its existence. All I can provide is the fact that historical records prove that Jesus existed, and other proof that confirm the references in the bible to be historically accurate. But I cannot show you that Jesus is the Christ, unless you trust the bible to be a legitimate source of reference… which I doubt.

I do have a question for you though. How can you look at the mountains of alaska, or the sunset over the Pacific, and not think that there is something larger than us who created it all? You don;t have to answer, but it would be nice to know someones counter-argument.

slapintheface87 … :) Hi!!!

Thanks for the compliment… I have always been a why person… :)

Lets see now…

You call the answers : mocking. :)

Thanks for calling our attention to this.

I appreciate your input, greatly. :)

It all makes for a very lively conversation… One of which, I enjoy very much :)

I do so thank the ones that created this site, and made this possible.

Lets see… now…

Where did I tell anyone that they are wrong???

or where is it that I said, You need to emulate, me???

My word… young man.. or girl… not sure which you are , (forgive me)… for my ignorance. :)

Where do you see that I said that???

And lets see… now…

trashing the Christian reputation,

how did I do that??? :(

even further… :(

What happened to it to begin with ???

Is this a play on words??? Or what is going on here???

Did I fail to learn the English language during my tenure in the school system?

Are you speaking a different language than me, or what??

Please help me to understand.

I know that I can be dense at times, but, gee whiz…

Enlighten me…

pickles 15… You say:

And nobody should be put down because of there beliefs.

:) Hey… I agree totally… 100%

BUT… DOES THAT ACTUALLY TRANSLATE TO THIS:

Christians must shut up… for I do not want to hear what they have to say. They do not have a right to their opinion. Because that might cause me to wonder. So, I say, they need to shut up now. So that my conscience is not pricked. So, that I do not have to wonder. So, that I do not have to hear what they have to say.

IN OTHER WORDS…

This translates into…

My rights over their rights…

and I have the right… to not hear what they say…

even though they are posting approaitely to a forum, that is completely applicable to the topic that they are posting on.

uh.. excuse me…:( But, in my opinion… that translates… into:

Religious persecution.

It also, goes against the Constitution of the United States of America.

Of which I live, and am posting from.

Religious Freedom… remember? :)

From persecution…

EXACTLY WHAT THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED UPON…

over 200 years ago…

Now… do tell.. who is wrong?

thatonegirl14 Hi hon… :)

You say: it’s rude to force stuff upon people. :(

Hey.. I agree totally… :)

Freedom to choose.

God gave it, I defend it.

However, how is stating an opinion… :)

Shoving it down ones throat, as the world is sooo fond of saying ? :)

Can’t we have a discussion here?

Are you afraid of what Christians have to say?

Must you try and silence them?

Do you not have approaite answers… other than this? :)

arachnid:

I am no science major. I’m more comfortable with the liberal arts fields myself. What I challenge you to do is think about the probability of all of these systems combining together to form this complexity that explains our world. How come the planet earth is at just the right distance from the sun to where it is warm enough to sustain life, but cool enough to retain it? What are the chances that a meteor hit this planet, located in that specific place to sustain life, to create its tilted axis that gives us our moon, seasons, tides, ect.? What is the probability that the evolution of chemicals, to organelles, to cells, to tissues, to organs, to organ systems, to organisms creates actual living and functioning creatures? How come these products of evolution are not evolving anymore? You may answer these questions, but personally, I find the weak explanations just as a sufficient explanation of a higher power. I have not read the book myself, but there is a novel that discusses such things. It challenges evolutionists’ theories, and if you are looking for a counter-argument from someone who knows more than I do, try googling it! To look at the complexities of the human body, and the delicateness of a butterfly, it is almost impossible to imagine that it all happened by chance. Now I am sure that my reluctance to accept this phenomenon is the same as your reluctance to accept my phenomena, but this is all a part of growth. I almost accept both theories. God led the processes of evolution. This proves the truth scientifically, but also allows an explanation for the consequential occurrences. Like I said, I am not the best person to be defending this topic. I hardly know about the inner-workings of our solar system. I do know that I have challenged my religion. I am not a blind follower of some Christian crusade. If I can challenge my beliefs, then I would hope that you could do the same. What is the harm?

arachnid:

I am no science major. I’m more comfortable with the liberal arts fields myself. What I challenge you to do is think about the probability of all of these systems combining together to form this complexity that explains our world. How come the planet earth is at just the right distance from the sun to where it is warm enough to sustain life, but cool enough to retain it? What are the chances that a meteor hit this planet, located in that specific place to sustain life, to create its tilted axis that gives us our moon, seasons, tides, ect.? What is the probability that the evolution of chemicals, to organelles, to cells, to tissues, to organs, to organ systems, to organisms creates actual living and functioning creatures? How come these products of evolution are not evolving anymore? You may answer these questions, but personally, I find the weak explanations just as a sufficient explanation of a higher power. I have not read the book myself, but there is a novel that discusses such things. It challenges evolutionists’ theories, and if you are looking for a counter-argument from someone who knows more than I do, try googling it! To look at the complexities of the human body, and the delicateness of a butterfly, it is almost impossible to imagine that it all happened by chance. Now I am sure that my reluctance to accept this phenomenon is the same as your reluctance to accept my phenomena, but this is all a part of growth. I almost accept both theories. God led the processes of evolution. This proves the truth scientifically, but also allows an explanation for the consequential occurrences. Like I said, I am not the best person to be defending this topic. Just 16, I hardly know about the inner-workings of our solar system (what are out taxes going towards anyway!). I do know that I have challenged my religion. I am not a blind follower of some Christian crusade. If I, at 16, can challenge my beliefs, then I would hope that you could do the same. What is the harm?

sorry this is a little late! this site is messed up at times!

I am a very simple person.

DING!

“How come so many people ask about God?”

Ummm… what else should we talk about in the ‘Religion’ section?

arachnid … thank you very much for answering my question..

however, it is still mumbo jumbo to me.

I am a very simple person.

Please spell it out to me, in language that I can understand.

You are telling me the laws that govern the universe…

Is that right?

My simple question is this:

Who or what put the laws in motion?

zimmyzimmyzoomzoom…

ah… lets see now…

Who said… that no one should ask questions… about God???

Wowo.. how would we ever find out anything… about God, if we didn’t ask questions?

actually yeah this isn’t right. your saying how nobody should ask questions about god and you go and write something like this. the bad thing is is that not everyone believes in god, so of course you are going to get a clash in views over here.

Provide a rational, evidence-based reason for what you believe, and we atheists, agnostics and skeptics will stop asking, at least. :)

Everyone has the right to believe what they want to if they believe in god they believe in god and if they don’t they don’t but people don’t need to be rude when someone asks a quetion about religion one shouldn’t put a person down for their questions I thought thats what this is was for to ask questions and get answers for the question not to be chasticed for asking them

No it’s not. I ask stupid questions all the time. yesterday I asked if people thought I was ugly. hahaha and btw, I don’t even belive in god or anything else for that matter. it’s rude to force stuff upon people.

Everyone has differnt thoughts about it. but I am getting tired of all the preaching on here. nobody should be told what to believe. And nobody should be put down because of there beliefs.

People ask questions for one of three reasons. I am sure you will follow me on this one.

1. They want to know the answer
2. They like to hear themselves talk/ see their words on paper/ computer
3. They want to start a conflict.

I am sure you can see where I am going with this, so I will just end here.

How come so many people on here ask about god they need to stop its not right its not kul its not even funny its down right idiotic!!! and all the qs people do ask here are the anwsers!!! Yes god loves everybody He does exsits and even If you did something sooo Stupid he always will love you!!!

Hmmm… talk about idiotic…

arachnid…

(conceptually) simple rules acting together. Emergent complexity

wow … big words …

Must be college words… hmmm…

haven’t run into those before… :)

Lets break it down, so we can all be on the same page…

Conceptually… well, I’m going to let you do that one.

I want to condider the simple rules… part.

Lets see now… what simple rule…

Makes the sun come up in the morning over Alaska ?

And set in the evening… over the Pacific?

What simple rule… causes this magnificance to happen, day after day?

Then… maybe you can explain emergent complexity to me???

I am sure that others too would like to know.

Thanks.

silverwings: Gravity (thanks to general relativity), the equations that describe the weak and strong forces, etc, describe most of it (at a high level). At the cosmological level, it’s all down to physics. At the local level, it’s down to biology. The rules may seem complex, but compared to the things they cause to exist, they’re extremely simple.

Emergent complexity is exactly that process: Simple systems creating complex outcomes. A trivial example is fractals: The equation that describes it is simple, but the fractals are infinitely detailed.

Pickles 15… :) Hi !!!

so you say:

Everyone has differnt thoughts about it. but I am getting tired of all the preaching on here. nobody should be told what to believe. And nobody should be put down because of there beliefs.

:) hey… I agree totally !!! With most of what you say, however, I do beg to differ on one thought.

That being…

all the preaching on here.

:) Excuse me… but, the last time I looked… this site was an advice site. :)

Remember… its called Funadvice…

It is also categorized as… religion & spirituality… :)

Remember now??? :)

What it is designed for, to begin with ???

To sum it up… a place for religious advice.

Or correct me, if I am wrong???

Am I misunderstanding this???

If so, someone please enlighten me…:)

silver wings, I admire your inquisitiveness, but am disgusted by your stupidity. Did you honestly think that you would not get mocked for posting religious questions? Although I am all for you standing up for Christianity, the passive aggressive stuff is not doing much good. Telling people that they are wrong and should try to emulate you is only trashing the Christian reputation even further. You should have expected this, and I beg you to apologize.

born to write…

You say:

how come so many people on here ask about god they need to stop its not right

:) uh… please do tell… why this is not right???

The title of this forum is : FUNADVICE

The last time I checked…

That meant… a place for advice. Right???

Also… the spiritual/religious questions, are posted in:

THE RELIGION/SPIRITUALITY CATEGORY…

So… Please do tell… why this is not right??? :)

I would be very interested to know.

if people have questions about religion, why discourage them? Instead of making fun of them, try answering them. For those who think it’s too preachy, ignore. I would rather have a question answered truthfully by someone, then just be mocked because people are afraid of sounding overly religious.

However, you do have the freedom to discourage questions, just like we have the freedom to discourage your question. There are a lot of hypocrites badgering you about your pessimistic views on “the God questions”, where you have just as much a right to hate them, as they do to hate your post.

Just like pickles15 said, “no one should be put down for their beliefs… “ maybe not in the same context, but it applies.

Born to write…

So..

You can sum God up in 4… Very short lines…

Hmmm… :(

Wow.. now, that truly is amazing… indeed. :)

The God of the Universe…

Summed up…

IN 4 SHORT LINES…

Now… that is a tidy little bundle, if I ever saw one… :)

Thank you for your very intelligent contributions… :)

How come so many people on here ask about god they need to stop its not right its not kul its not even funny its down right idiotic!!

are you kidding you do realize that people have different belifs. arachnid has a point (if im reading it right) through out the ages anything not explained was either God or witchcraft, ect. the more that was explained the less of a mystery the less it was God…ect.

however who is to say that all we have done is desifer the language that God wrote the universe in

silverwings, I’m just that saying that the person who asked the question in the first place, “how come so many people ask about god” is just asking for more questions on religion. and just saying, like what’s happening now, that everyone has different views and opinions on religion so everyone’s going to argue about this question. haha. I’m open to every religion because they all are trying to make peace- – but after a while and the clash in beliefs it also starts arguments. but I understand everything your saying. people who want to ask questions should get to right to ask, especially if they are trying to find a good religion to follow.

“everyone has a god.”

I don’t. Nor do 10%-15% of the rest of the world, at a minimum.

I think they’re seeking an answer to the most important question in life: If I died today, where would I spend eternity ?

People ask questions about god, because no-one actually knows anything about god. No-one knows anything about god, because no gods actually exist.

“Your probability dismissal proves MY point exactly. It seems almost impossible! How can such species survive for so long without a master plan?”

Did you read any of my rebuttal? It doesn’t matter how impossible something seems - if your being here to argue about it depends on the outcome, you can’t draw sensbile conclusions about it. If it hadn’t happened, you wouldn’t be debating it.

Likewise, I can deal out a hand of cards to you, and that particular hand - no matter what it is - will be astronomically impossible. However, I doubt you’ll claim that because it’s so improbable, it must be intelligently designed.

“You also state that humans evolve at an extremely slow rate, and yet there is no fossil record of creatures transforming from fish to amphibian to mammal.”

Yes there is. You seem to be expecting poorly-suited “transitional forms” that are some sort of straightforward combination of the two lineages. But evolution doesn’t work that way. There are no creatures that are, in and of themselves “transitional”. It’s a continuous transformation from one species to another - and every one inbetween is likewise well-suited to its environment.

How many transitional fossils do you need to be happy? The typical creationist tactic is to claim there’s not enough transitional fossils - and if a new one shows up, lo and behold, they can claim there’s now two gaps where before there was only one!

“Neither are there records of transformations from primate to human.”

Yes there are: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_(genus)

“In fact, if you want to be truly scientific, Newton’s third law states that all systems break down over time.”

Er. Newton’s third law is “To every action there is always opposed an equal reaction”.

I’m guessing you actually mean the second law of thermodynamics. This “evolution violates thermodynamics” argument has been so thoroughly debunked it’s not funny. In short:

• The second law only applies to closed systems. Earth is not a closed system - it receives energy from the sun. In a closed system, local decreases in entropy are possible.
• If the thermodynamics-voids-evolution argument were true, it would be impossible for us to live at all. Any time you tidy your room you are decreasing entropy, but you don’t seem to claim that’s impossible.

“Want more? The whole concept of life evolving from the primordial soup (which is the beginning of the evolution theory) has been proven to be physically impossible. The alignment of amino acids, protein molecules, etc. in the right sequence, combining to create one functional molecule are estimated to be I chance in a ten with sixty zeros after it. How can this happen w/o some master designer?”

First, you’re talking about abiogenesis, which is separate from evolution. Second, you seem to have a poor idea of what constitutes ‘proof’. Doing some blackboard calculations based on a single way life could have originated does not constitute ‘proof’. There are many other ways life could have originated, and several good hypotheses on how it could have happened.

“Besides, you never answered my question. Why not try to challenge your beliefs? “

Science - and skepticisim - are all about challenging one’s beliefs. I’m constantly re-evaluating what I think is true - but I demand actual proof for things, not teleological arguments.

“If you were to ask me, it seems more logical that God does exist. “

Let’s suppose for a moment that there was an argument for a designer. Why the christian god, of all gods? Humanity has worshipped many, many gods over the aeons, and only a minority have ever worshipped the christian god. There’s absolutely no reason to suppose that one god should have created the universe in preference to another. So how do you make the leap from ‘a creator’ to ‘this creator’?