Is the US going the way of the Roman Empire?

Yes but by the United States’ own doing. Everyone is using credit and abusing it then they cant pay their bills and we look like we are about to hit a recession so there goes everything! It’s just a matter of time if you ask me. The political outlook is just as bad as you describe.

Mama K :(

Great question. In addition, I’ve been thinking recently that the USA/UK situation is a bit like the Rome/Ancient Greece one. The Romans seemed to despise the Greeks for being focused on thought, not action. Greece had been the home of philosphers, mathematicians and scientists. Rome had engineers. Greece invented theatre and poetry, and Rome had gladiators and circuses (a parallel with Hollywood - not sure???). Both saw the strengths of their own culture but were unimpressed with the best of the other. And of course Greece had a faded imperial glory rather like that of Britain.

“In addition, I’ve been thinking recently that the USA/UK situation is a bit like the Rome/Ancient Greece one.”

I remember a French historian several years ago complaining that Europeans are to Americans what Greeks were to Romans…”educated slaves”. He also said he felt the only unique cultural talent Europeans could boast anymore was wine tasting. Of course, things have changed qutie a bit since he said that (I believe mid 90s). But I think there is a parallel between the relationships, as you point out. If you point to the UK specifically, the United States also inherited some of its own social and cultural norms from Britain, as Rome did from Greece.

You are correct in noting the misconception about the term “barbarian”. The Romans used the term barbarians to refer to anyone who wasn’t Roman.

As far as the European/US parrallels go: If I understand correctly, the Romans held high esteem for the Greeks. They adopted all the Greek gods; they imitated Greek architecture; their major epic poets (Virgil and Ovid) wrote about in Greek style verse and writing about Greek themes.

The US and Europe have always had a certain level of healthy competition, but I don’t think that it has ever been seriously damaging (yet). The US had tried to stay out of European affairs from George Washington to Woodrow Wilson (with the exception of a heathy naval arms race between the US and the British empire). Even after WW2, the US has never been a “conquering” force. There are still bases in Germany and Japan, but each forgein base that I know of has the permission of the host government to be there (except Guantanimo Bay Naval Base in Cuba). “We have hurled back the invaders and hostile armies, and have claimed only enough land to bury the dead.”

I do see a certain connection between Rome and US. It reminds me of a quote from Mark Twain “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme.”

aarthur001, thanks for your great response!

You’re right, historians aren’t in agreement that the Roman Empire ever did collapse. Some would say it just transformed into something different, and that process happened slowly and without the average Roman citizen really noticing. And the division of the east and west was inevitable, since culturally they had grown apart with the rise of Christianity in the east and remnants of Greek influence there as well.

One thing I think gets overlooked in Rome’s decline is the role of the so-called barbarians. They weren’t barbaric at all, and they were very powerful. Many were actually educated in the Roman Empire and spent time in the Roman legions. Some, like the Ostrogoth king Theodoric, were actually admirers of Roman culture. And it’s not like it was just the “Romans vs the Barbarians” since many Germanic tribesmen were actually serving in the legions in place of ethnic Roman or Italian people, or at the very least, were allied with Rome. I think some parts of the Empire’s decline, like the rise of these powerful alliances of Germanic, Celtic, and Hunnish tribes, were simply beyond Rome’s control. Another external threat that gets overlooked is the Sassanid Persians in the east. Rome had to really strain its empire, mainly in the west, to cope with this threat, and it took years to do so. The damage done to Rome financially in the west would never be repaired.

I should clarify what I meant by lack of technological breakthrough. When it came to engineering and public organization, the Romans surpassed everyone…some would say, even modern things in certain ways. But one of the things that I think drove the Industrial Revolution in Britain and the US was the reliance on science and machinery in daily life, which I believe was in turn driven by the lack of a slave class (remember this happened mostly in the postbellum world). Though they built aquedects, roads and free hospitals, the average Roman citizen relied on slaves to work the land, and make household and business life convenient. The Romans were not also efficient at producing goods, most of their products were very labor intensive, also the result of reliance on slaves, while technology in the US has allowed the production of more quality goods with minimal labor. Actually the Romans produced very few exportable goods at all, and had no consumer market, unlike the US.

You do make a very good point about oil which I had overlooked. This was also a pillar of the Industrial Revolution and of course, our society today. I think if anything has the ability to speed up a collapse of US power, it would be oil problems.

If we’re not careful and prayerful, we may very well be headed that direction.