Bible "Jesus & God"

I am no longer confused in my belief, but the belief of some out there, How on earth do you get so confused with the silly beliefs like “Jesus is God” the “three in one deal” I have been reading the Bible and every time it talks about Jesus and God it is clear it does NOT mean Jesus is God.

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus, the Mediator of a new covenant, and to the Sprinkled Blood, which Speaks better than the blood of Abel.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 5 For there is One God, and One Mediator also between God and Men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony Given at the proper time.

Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only One.

Malachi 2:10 Do we not All have One Father? Has not Once God created us? Why do we deal treacherously each against his brother so as to profane the conenant of our fathers?

James 1:1 James, A Bond-Servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Okay so I have given a few verses from the Bible, and My question is, if the Trinity is so clear then why doesn’t it say in the Bible “Jesus is God”? Really I don’t believe there is a verse with it. To me it makes much more sense as Jesus a Man who saved us of our sins who God gave Jesus the authority to do so. and God our maker and Father who loves us.

I don’t know does what I say make sense to any of you?

Answer #1

No Problem I will look up

Answer #2

Look the verses up on the website I have showed you under the (top 30) tab and click on the (most commen verses that support trinitarians view)…sorry I would show you myself but am not near a computer and it Is very hard doing this on my iPod touch. I hope you understand.

Answer #3

Fruitylicious, yes your right I am seeking how many answers people will provide, that is only because, I am seeking people’s knowledge of the Bible, also, I believe people’s opinions are also very interesting, which I believe if you put down just what you agree with or disagree with..what fun would that be…Isn’t this website after all called “Fun Advice”, or not? if the Christian Debates are boring to you, and you do not want to hear anymore about the Christian debates then I would suggest you stop looking in the “Religion & Spirituality” section of FA.


Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. (NIV)

It is untrue to say that the Hebrew word echad (one) in Deut. 6:4 points to a compound unity. A recent defense of the Trinity argues that when “one” modifies a collective noun like “cluster” or “herd,” a plurality is implied in echad. The argument is fallacious. The sense of plurality is derived from the collective noun, not from the word “one.” Echad in Hebrew is the numeral “one.” Isa. 51:2 describes Abraham as “one” (echad), where there is no possible misunderstanding about the meaning of this simple word

See the notes on Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be

afraid. I am the First and the Last.” (NIV)

The phrase, “the First and the Last,” is a title that is used five times in the Bible, twice in Isaiah of God

(44:6; 48:12) and three times in Revelation of the Son (1:17; 2:8; 22:13). Trinitarians sometimes make the

assumption that since the same title applies to both the Father and the Son, they must both be God.

However, there is no biblical justification on which to base that assumption. When the whole of Scripture is studied, one sees that the same titles are used for God, Christ and men. Examples include “Lord” (see Rom.

10:9) and “Savior” (see Luke 1:47) and “King of kings” (see 1 Tim. 6:14-16). If other titles apply to God,

Christ and men without making all of them into “one God,” then there is no reason to assume that this particular title would mean they were one God unless Scripture specifically told us so, which it does not.

1 Corinthians 8:4 (NIV)

4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that

there is no God but one.

Yes that is right There is no God but One. I don’t see how you get the Trintiy out of that verse.

Matthew 3:16-17 (NIV)

16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he

saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, “This is

my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

I do not see how you get the Trinity out of this verse either. God is Pleased with Jesus, of course he is. =)

John 10:30 I and my father are one. (KJV)

  1. There is no reason to take this verse to mean that Christ was saying that he and the Father make up “one God.” The phrase was a common one, and even today if someone used it, people would know exactly what he meant—he and his father are very much alike. When Paul wrote to the Corinthians about his ministry there, he said that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, “he who plants and he who waters are one” (1 Cor. 3:8 - KJV). In the Greek texts, the wording of Paul is the same as that in John

10:30, yet no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up “one being.” Furthermore, the NIV translates 1

Corinthians 3:8 as “he who plants and he who waters have one purpose.” Why translate the phrase as “are one” in one place, but as “have one purpose” in another place? In this case, translating the same phrase in two different ways obscures the clear meaning of Christ’s statement in John 10:30: Christ always did the Father’s will; he and God have “one purpose.”

  1. Christ uses the concept of “being one” in other places, and from them one can see that “one purpose” is what is meant. John 11:52 says Jesus was to die to make all God’s children “one.” In John 17:11, 21 and 22, Jesus prayed to God that his followers would be “one” as he and God were “one.” We think it is obvious that Jesus was not praying that all his followers would become one being or “substance” just as he and his Father were one being or “substance.” I believe the meaning is clear: Jesus was praying that all his followers be one in purpose just as he and God were one in purpose, a prayer that has not yet been answered.

John 14:9 (NIV)

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

I do not believe Jesus intended us to get the meaning you can see God out of him for he Is a Man and God is Not man I believe Jesus Simply meant you have the Father in you as he is in me so You see the Fathers will as you see it in me. that brings us to the Verse,

John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of

the miracles themselves. (NIV)

The exact same language about being “in” is used many times of Christians. We assert that when the same exact language is used both of Christ and of Christians, it needs to be understood the same way. We are “in” Christ, and Christ is “in” us (cp. John 14:4-7; 17:21,23 and 26). When used in the sense of “in God,” or “in Christ,” the word “in” refers to a close communion, a tight fellowship. It was part of the covenant language of the day, when people spoke of being either “in” or “cut off from” the covenant.

I will just say the same thing I said before with John 12:45 with John 14:9.

Romans 8:9 (New International Version)

9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

Ok, the Spirit of God is in everyone who believes, and of course we will have the Sprit of Christ, that does not say anything close saying Jesus is God in anyway I’m sorry.

Matthew 1:20 (NIV)

20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

This does not support the Trinity, The Holy Spirt is not God, if the Holy Spirt was God does that Mean we are gods? if we have the Holy Spirt in us?

Luke 1:35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.” (NIV)

When the phrase “Son of God” is studied and compared with phrases about the Father, a powerful truth is revealed. The phrase “Son of God” is common in the New Testament, but the phrase “God the Son” never appears. In contrast, phrases like “God the Father,” “God our Father,” “the God and Father” and “God, even the Father” occur many times. Are we to believe that the Son is actually God just as the Father is, but the Father is plainly called “God, the Father” over and over and yet the Son is not even once called “God the Son”? This is surely strong evidence that Jesus is not actually “God the Son” at all.

John 14:16-17 (16) And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— (17) the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. (NIV)

Some people assert that “the Holy Spirit” is a person because the Bible has “he” and “him” in these verses in John and in some other places. This assertion is invalid because the gender of the noun and pronoun have nothing to do with whether or not a person or thing is actually a person.

I will be back to talk more with the Rest of you I promise.

I am running out of time Right now and Hope to talk to you all soon.

Answer #4

Jesus is GOD and this can be understood by studying the Bible. Nature does reveal the works of God but God himself I.e. His character, His love for us, and His purpose for creating us, cannot be seen through nature. In the Bible God does say that he made man in his own image but that does not mean that He is in every one of us. He does come and dwell in us but for that we have to ask him to do so.

Man is born with a sin nature. That is in his very nature there is a tendency to sin. Man was not created that way. He was created perfect and was given free will. He was given the the choice. He could choose live obeying God and live in his perfect condition or he could choose to sin and fall his perfect condition. Man made the wrong choice and as a result fell from his perfect condition. Now we are born with a sin nature. So all us will sin.

Another issue is that when we live in this place we are actually dwelling temporarily. After this life we have a permanent life (eternal) and we have choose where we are going to spend it. Anyone who thinks this life is all there is making a terrible mistake. And to spend the eternity with God we need to be righteous in His sight.

Now we arrive at a problem here. We need to be righteous but we are born with a sin nature which means we cannot but sin. So we need to be save from our sins. So we need this salvation weather we like it or not, weather it is depressing or not. Also since we cannot live without sinning and since we have already committed a lot of sins in the past it implies that we cannot not save ourselves. That is not possible and that is the real problem.

Since in this position we are helpless God has to himself provide us a solution. God’s provision for us is Jesus Christ. Since we are born with a sin nature, we sin and we loose our life with God in eternity. The loss has to be paid with life. Thus Jesus paid for our sins by giving his life. Now we have a provision from God through which we could be saved. When we repent for our sins and ask Jesus to forgive us our sins He pays for us and thus forgives us. The important thing is that God lives outside of time and therefore we may not be able understand fully how he is able to pay for our sins in the past.

The problem we in is far more serious than we think. We will be able to anything to save ourselves. Only God can handle that.

This is the truth but I many will not accept any of this. But reality is not affected by our belief or non-belief of it. Reality is not changed by our accepting or not accepting it. So weather we believe it or not, weather we like it or not, weather we accept it or not truth is truth. One may not be able to provide evidences for it due to various reasons, but that does not change the fact. For example if I saw a picture in the sky yesterday night but am not able to provide evidences for it does it change the fact. I might not have had proper cameras to take photos and the image could have disappeared by the time I called someones attention to it. Due to lack of evidence people may not believe what I say but that still does not change the fact that I saw it.

It’s not that Christianity doesn’t respect humanity, it’s that Christianity doesn’t understand humanity

Well I guess it is the other way around. Humanity does not understand Christianity.

Hope you benefit by this posting.

Answer #5

prox It is not true that God cannot be understood by human logic because human knowledge is still very limited though we have developed greatly in knowledge. And it is also true that, that is the reason why God had to reveal himself to us because otherwise it would not be possible for us to know him. The Bible was written by man but it was not something that was dictated to someone who wrote it down according to his understanding. That was not how it worked. The Bible consists of what people wrote from what they saw, what they heard, and what they experienced. The prophets for example might not have understood all the prophecy they were hearing from God, nevertheless since their work was not to understand it but to just say what they heard, they spoke out what they heard as is. (This does not apply to all prophesies. There were some prophecies that they understood). God directed the writing of the Bible to reveal himself through it. So the purpose was to understand Him. That means man will be able to understand God through the Bible and Bible is not something too complicated that man cannot understand it. As we have seen God had a purpose in writing this book. When this there is also required two things for that purpose to served.

  1. That the copies of Bible remain for people of all ages to read.
  2. That it remain uncorrupted.

Only these two things are in place will it make sense for God to write down a book. Since God wanted to reveal himself to all people of all times he protected this book from being destroyed. So we see that it is being published and sold even today when some kings have used all their power to destroy the book from being published. I believe that God also protected this book without corruption because it would otherwise make sense for Bible to exist today.

Thus the point I would like to make is you can understand about trinity by studying the Bible and it is not an impossibility.

Answer #6

Two things about the trinity that everyone should know is - it is made up of supernatural beings

  • The bible is written by man

therefor trying to put human logic and human thinkings on supernatural beings is impossible Its like saying God has the power to make a rock so heavy he can lift it. It just doesn’t work. So when the message of God (the bible) was given to man and man wrote it down, those many years ago. Each autor of each passage put his own understanding of the world and God into his writings. So each author put human logic on the trinity or their understanding of the trinity. Using this human logic to prove or disprove the trinity’s existence would just be a pointless waste of time as the trinity is not from this world.

So taking passages written by man and using them to prove or disprove something that is out of this world is beyond me. I mean if you don’t understand how the trinity works will that stop you from being a Christian and if everyone understood it would they all be Christians?

Answer #7

The debate about the Trinity goes all the way back to the beginning of Christianity. There are sects who view Jesus as a separate being from the Father…and I think even most Trinity believers tend to think this way, because “God is both 3 and 1” is an obvious contradiction.

I can’t tell you how often I read/hear the expression “God and Jesus”.

Answer #8

To (anyone) who reads the Bible it is obvious that Jesus is God because of the many verses that I have already mentioned to you. You say that these are mistranslations and hence are misunderstood. Well what made you doubt what seems to be obvious to (everybody)?

…still stating YOUR views as EVERYONE’s, hmmm?

Answer #9

serinaty trinity means one God in three forms.

Just examine this verse

John 14: 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

What does Jesus when he says when you see Him you have seen the Father? Is it not very clear that He is the Father.

Now look at John 1:1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

We know that the “Word” refers to Jesus. It says plainly that the Word was in the beginning. So he can’t be man. Then it also says “Word was God”. With such plain statements why is there a confusion?

Another things is that if you want only Christians to answer to your question please say so.

Answer #10

“sigh” boring… im guessing you are trying to see how many answers you can achieve from your question…sooo boring, same nonsense everytime “sigh”… wish people would give the Christian debate a rest, everyone has their own opinions so why not just “agree to disagree” so the religious debates can end…its getting so over-done on FA :(

Answer #11

I have gone through the site. Basically the site works with one logic, that Jesus cannot be God and man at the same time. Here is a site that will show you that Jesus is God. Read the verses presented in the site and tell me your opinion.

Answer #12

You have not dealt with the John 1:1 that I quoted to you.

Answer #13

Could you give me links to the pages that talk about these verses? I certainly want to know the truth.

Answer #14

Ok I will look and get back to you when I can.

Answer #15

Though not a complete list, here is some other Scripture that shows God is one, in Trinity:

“Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!” (Deut. 6:4)

“I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.” (Isa. 45:5)

There is no God but one. (1Cor. 8:4)

And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.” (Matt. 3:16-17)

“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.” (Matt. 28:19)

Jesus said: “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)

“He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” (John 14:9)

“He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me.” (John 12:45)

If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Rom. 8:9)

“Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.” (Matt. 1:20)

And the angel answered and said to her [Mary], “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:35)

[Jesus speaking to His disciples] “And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you.” … “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him.” (John 14:16-17, 23)

Answer #16

Here is a copy of what I typed in another question a few minutes ago:

I believe in Jesus and I love him.

Jesus is a prophet, not a God. God is so revealed through nature He doesn’t need to take the shape of one of His creatures. He is already inside every one of us. Trinity is too complicated to be true. Science should replace it if we really wish to see a clearer image of God.

It’s very depressing how we still believe that we must be “saved”. Saved from what? This world belongs to us. We should try and make it better not wish we are saved from it.

If someone has to “save” me, then this someone should be ME not Jesus.

How come am I forgiven just ‘cause Jesus died for me? I didn’t tell Jesus to die for me. By the time he died, I hadn’t commited any sins. I wasn’t even born. I don’t understand what Jesus’ death has to do with my sins. Why should he pay for my mistakes? and why should he pay for my mistakes through humiliation, crucifiction and death? This is too unfair to be true.

Only I should pay for my own mistakes, while Jesus should take care of his.

Our humanity is not anything to be ashamed of, saved from, feel bad about or forgiven for. It’s not a sin. We were NOT born sinners. We sin after we are born and that is our nature. There’s no point in seeing humanbeings as things which are so bad that God must do some incarnation in order for them to be good and “purified”.We have brains, we can take care of ourselves.

We need Jesus as a prophet, not as a son of God.

Christianity is full of love and peace. You are lucky if your best friend is Christian. It’s not that Christianity doesn’t respect humanity, it’s that Christianity doesn’t understand humanity.

Keep your head high up Greetings from Egypt!

Noblez Chavazelle

Answer #17

I disagree, I don’t believe all the Translations are incorrect I just believe some things out of the bible is correct it’s the people that like to get the bible confused and misread what it really is saying, this document is over 2000 years old I do not expect it to be perfect like it use to be.

Jesus had Perfect blood, that is why he was able to do his Fathers will with out sinning against him.

I have seen plenty of verses where it talks about God and Jesus Christ, and I do not see how it is Jesus + Spirit + God = THREE MANIFESTATIONS of ONE it doesn’t even say that in the Bible…I think God would want us to know that right away not go through riddles for us to see that.

One last thing God cannot be tempted and Jesus was if God is not to be Tempted how could Jesus be?

James 1:13 (New American Standard Bible)

13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

Matthew 4 (New American Standard Bible)

Matthew 4 The Temptation of Jesus

1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

2 And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became hungry.

3 And the tempter came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”


5 Then the devil took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple,

6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written,


7 Jesus said to him, “On the other hand, it is written, ‘YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.’”

8 Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory;

9 and he said to Him, “All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me.”

10 Then Jesus said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.’”

11 Then the devil left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.

Anyways if you do not want to listen to what I have said I can understand that…So I will just end the conversation.

Thank you for your advice and opinions, it was Very nice talking to you.

God Bless.

Answer #18

It is imperative that the serious student of the Bible come to a basic understanding of logos, which is translated as “Word” in John 1:1. Most Trinitarians believe that the word logos refers directly to Jesus Christ, so in most versions of John logos is capitalized and translated “Word” (some versions even write “Jesus Christ” in John 1:1). However, a study of the Greek word logos shows that it occurs more than 300 times in the New Testament, and in both the NIV and the KJV it is capitalized only 7 times (and even those versions disagree on exactly when to capitalize it). When a word that occurs more than 300 times is capitalized fewer than 10 times, it is obvious that when to capitalize and when not to capitalize is a translators’ decision based on their particular understanding of Scripture.

As it is used throughout Scripture, logos has a very wide range of meanings along two basic lines of thought. One is the mind and products of the mind like “reason,” (thus “logic” is related to logos) and the other is the expression of that reason as a “word,” “saying,” “command” etc. The Bible itself demonstrates the wide range of meaning logos has, and some of the ways it is translated in Scripture are: account, appearance, book, command, conversation, eloquence, flattery, grievance, heard, instruction, matter, message, ministry, news, proposal, question, reason, reasonable, reply, report, rule, rumor, said, say, saying, sentence, speaker, speaking, speech, stories, story, talk, talking, teaching, testimony, thing, things, this, truths, what, why, word and words.

Answer #19

John 1:1-3 (1) In the beginning was the Word [the wisdom, plan or purpose of God], and the Word was with God, and the Word was divine. (2) The same was in the beginning with God. (3) All things were made by it [the Word]; and without it was not anything made that was made.

The pronoun in verse 3 can legitimately be translated as “it.” It does not have to be translated as “him,” and it does not have to refer to a “person” in any way. A primary reason why people get the idea that “the Word” is a person is that the pronoun “he” is used with it. The Greek text does, of course, have the masculine pronoun, because like many languages, including Spanish, French, German, Latin, Hebrew, etc., the Greek language assigns a gender to all nouns, and the gender of the pronoun must agree with the gender of the noun. In French, for example, a table is feminine, la table, while a desk is masculine, le bureau, and feminine and masculine pronouns are required to agree with the gender of the noun. In translating from French to English, however, we would never translate “the table, she,” or “the desk, he.” And we would never insist that a table or desk was somehow a person just because it had a masculine or feminine pronoun. We would use the English designation “it” for the table and the desk, in spite of the fact that in the original language the table and desk have a masculine or feminine gender.

Answer #20

Eternallife, Thank you for your bibical knowledge and opinions.

But I believe Jesus is not God, for the bible would make this very clear but for me it does not make it clear. I have studied the Bible and learned more about Greek and Hebrew and I believe the only real way of understanding the bible is having a understanding of it’s origional language.

I understand what you mean by the picture thing…is that something like “faith” ? Oh saying God is a mystory is saying to me that we will never know what he is or why. I believe God wants us to have a understanding of him.

I am not saying faith is a bad thing I’m just saying we shouldn’t us faith as a exscuse for what we believe in.

Jesus did not sin but he stugled he was tempted, he prayed to God all the time (why would Jesus do that if he were God)

The bible doesn’t say God was three manifestations of himself just doesn’t make sense to me at all.

Answer #21

Consider this verse

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

This verse show erase all doubts as to when Jesus’ beginning was.

There are enough verses to show that Jesus is God. But you do not want see those as verses as claiming that Jesus is God.

There are verses that claim Jesus is God. There are verses that claim that Jesus is man. Those verses you have quoted to me and to say he was a man. But there are no verses that say he was only a man.

Joh 1:1 Joh 1:14 1Ti 3:16 Is 9:6

These few verses are enough to clearly show that Jesus is God. That is the meaning you would get unless you disagree with all the translators in the world. I am from India where the Bible is in various languages and even there the meaning is the same.

God is monitoring the his word. He will not allow the Bible to be wrongly in all languages. Therefore one can safely trust the Bible in his own language. Though translations may contain minor errors vital information will not be lost. Trust the LORD.

Answer #22

You still have not dealt with this verse.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

“Word” what ever meaning you give to it was with God and was God. That word became flesh and dwelt among us. Is that not plain?

If he was just a man what sense does it make for Him to die for our sins? Anyone else could have died.

Here are some other verses

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

When was God preached unto gentiles and received up into glory?

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Son is referred to as GOD.

Is 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Mighty God? Everlasting Father?

Are these verses not clear?

Answer #23

When Jesus spoke about the Father he referred to the Father as God the Father and My God. If they were truely One then He would not say my God. Jesus says in the end when death in conquered He being Jesus will hand everything over the God the Father. Whey not say I will hand everything over to myself. Jesus said My God My God why have you forsaken me. He calls God the Father MY GOD. We were just studing this last night. There are so many places were Jesus says God the Father and My God. This is a good study! Another thing you need to think about is marriage when a man and a wife marry they become one in God’s eyes. Yet they are two seperate people. think about it. We are to ask all things in Jesus name why would we have to do that if the Father and Son where both God.

Answer #24

Ok Eternallife, I have looked, but still that can not prove Jesus is God I would like to see what it really means in Greek/Hebrew, Oh wait it talks about most of those Verses on the Biblical Unitarian Website.

To seek the Truth is one thing to Deni the Truth is another.

Answer #25

Basically you are asking for my story as then how did I come to see this and believe this?

I don’t expect you to understand my reasoning, honestly I am still learning, but I believe the more I learn about God, and Christ Jesus, the more knowledge I have of the Bible.

Look at this Website, it’s where I have got most of my verses, I have explained as much as I can, and hope you understand why I believe the way I do, and I pray that you and I will have more knowledge of the Bible, even if you and I don’t have the same understanding.

Verses that support the Trinity:

What Do Biblical Unitarians Believe?:

God Bless! =)

Answer #26

Ok Let me go through them and see what they say.

Answer #27

Then tell me one thing. To anyone who reads the Bible it is obvious that Jesus is God because of the many verses that I have already mentioned to you. You say that these are mistranslations and hence are misunderstood. Well what made you doubt what seems to be obvious to everybody? If I am not wrong it is because you might have had a disagreement with the the verse that you checked with greek and found this out.

(Note there is no offense intended in this question. I just wanted to know)

Answer #28

If Jesus was not tempted then why does it say “the temptation of Jesus”?

I have no problem talking I just thought you were getting tired of talking with me.

I believe we need to study the word and the meaning of the word before we understand what it really is saying, the path is narrow few will find the way to heaven.

The Lord doesn’t need to make me find the truth when he already has shown me, I am free!

Answer #29

Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

No one says Jesus was tempted. Satan tried to tempted Jesus but he was not tempted.

If you want to end this conversation I have not problem. But just remember that Most of the translation (if not all) does not translate the Bible the way you are saying. So you are telling me that God allowed all the translation to be flawed and all people following them to be mislead. Analyze for yourself.

If you don’t want to talk anymore the ok.

May Lord make you see the truth

Answer #30

Alright, I looked up John 1:14, in a Unitarian Website and this is what it has to say about John 1:14;

  1. The “Word” is the wisdom, plan or purpose of God (see John 1:1) and the Word “became flesh” as Jesus Christ. Thus, Jesus Christ was “the Word in the flesh,” which is shortened to “the Word” for ease of speaking. Scripture is also the Word, but it is the Word in writing. Everyone agrees that the “Word” in writing had a beginning. So did the “Word” in the flesh. In fact, the Greek text of Matthew 1:18 says that very clearly: “Now the beginning of Jesus Christ was in this manner.” Some ancient scribes were so uncomfortable with the idea of Jesus having a “beginning” that they tried to alter the Greek text to read “birth” and not “beginning,” but they were unsuccessful. The modern Greek texts all read “beginning” (genesis) in Matthew 1:18. “Birth” is considered an acceptable translation of “genesis,” since the beginning of some things is birth, and so most translations read “birth” in Matthew 1:18. Nevertheless, the proper understanding of Matthew 1:18 is the “beginning” (genesis) of Jesus Christ.

In the beginning, God had a plan, a purpose, which “became flesh” when Jesus was conceived. To make John 1:14 support the Trinity, there must first be proof that Jesus existed before he was born and was called “the Word.” We do not believe that such proof exists. There is a large body of evidence, however, that Jesus was foreknown by God, and that the “the Word” refers to God’s plan or purpose. We contend that the meaning of the verse is straightforward. God had a plan (the Word) and that plan became flesh when Jesus was conceived. Thus, Jesus became “the Word in the flesh.”

  1. It is quite fair to ask why John would say, “the Word became flesh,” a statement that seems so obvious to us. Of course Jesus Christ was flesh. He was born, grew, ate and slept, and Scripture calls him a man. However, what is clear to us now was not at all clear in the early centuries of the Christian era. In our notes on John 1:1, we explain that the Bible must be understood in the context of the culture in which it was written. At the time of John’s writing, the “Docetic” movement was gaining disciples inside Christianity (“Docetic” comes from the Greek word for “to seem” or “to appear”). Docetic Christians believed Jesus was actually a spirit being, or god, who only “appeared” to be human. Some Docetists did not believe Jesus even actually ate or drank, but only pretended to do so. Furthermore, some Jews thought that Jesus was an angel. In theological literature, theologians today call this “angel-Christology.” John 1:14 was not written to show that Jesus was somehow pre-existent and then became flesh. It was to show that God’s plan for salvation “became flesh,” I.e., Jesus was not a spirit, god or angelic being, but rather a flesh-and-blood man. A very similar thing is said in 1 John 4:2, that if you do not believe Jesus has come in the flesh, you are not of God.

What I have said about Jesus should be obvious that Jesus is a man, which God never said he would become a man he said he would send his own begotten son.

God never became a man…Explain to me where in the Bible it says “God came down as a man to this earth?”

Answer #31

serinaty I do not understand the purpose of this post. I agree with you on all that you have posted about Jesus. The Question is weather he is God.

John 1:14 you say is mistranslated. But you do not give me any explanation to what it would really mean.

I do not deny that Jesus was a man. He was a man as well as God. God came down as a man to this earth. He had to pray, He had to to be tempted, He had to be fell pain and other emotions because He was a man.

Answer #32

serinaty Thank you giving me the meaning of the “Word”. But John 1:1 says

In the beginning was the Word, (Whatever it means)and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Note this phrase WORD WAS GOD

Joh 1:4 says

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Note that the WORD is referred to as HIM.

Joh 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

We know that WORD refers to Jesus. Verse 1 says He was GOD. Should it be more clear than this?

Answer #33

Almost all the English translators translated the word “log’-os’ to Word. The word “theh’-os” was translated by all as God. The word “ow-tos’” was translated to Him.

You are telling me that they all got it wrong? I believe the translators chose the most appropriate meaning for words and most of them presented this meaning. I take their testimony as valid.

You have to see that whatever meaning you see in to the word “WORD” the Bible says that became flesh and dwelt among us.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

If you don’t want to see Jesus as God you can find various explanations. But the Trinity is very plain from the Bible.

Answer #34

I am sorry but I disagree, I use to believe in the Trinity, but it just doesn’t make sense to me anymore, maybe this would be easier if I knew you in person, but I am unable to explain How Jesus is Not God, Why would God pray to God, Why would God sit at the right hand of God, why doesn’t it talk more about Jesus being God, God is Mediator of Heaven of earth when he already is Creator of Heaven and Earth? Most of this just doesn’t make sense.

If you see Jesus as God, when the Bible is very plain about what the meaning is then I don’t know what to tell you.

Answer #35

I believe John 1:14 is mistranslated, I have come across this Verse before, but do not have anything I can give you that will satisfy you.

Word was with God, and the Word was divine.

Jesus- He is the only man who was ever born of a virgin.

“(Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:35). God put a perfect seed in the womb of Mary so that Jesus would be born without the sin nature that every other human being inherited from the First Adam. Therefore, Jesus is the only-begotten Son of God (John 3:16) and the Son of Man (John 5:27).”

He is the only man who is called “the Last Adam”.

“(1 Cor. 15:45). As the only-begotten Son of God, Jesus was the genetic equivalent to the first “Son of God,” Adam (Luke 3:38). As the only man born without inherent sin, Jesus was thus the only man equipped to be the Savior and Redeemer of mankind. Romans 5:12-21 is the classic comparison of these two Adams and the respective impact each had on mankind.”

He is the only man who had perfect faith in God, and who, by his free will choices to trust God, lived a sinless life, always doing the will of his Father.

“(John 8:29). Jesus was not a robot, programmed to obey God. If so, he could not have been genuinely tempted to sin, just like all men he came to save (Heb. 4:15). The absence of a sin nature was not the reason why Jesus did not sin. We know that because the First Adam also had no sin nature, and he sinned royally.”

He is the only man who died as the perfect sacrifice for our sins.

“(Heb. 10:12-14; 1 John 4:10). By his virgin birth and his lifelong obedience to God, all the way to his dying breath on the Cross, he became the perfect sacrifice for the sin and sins of mankind (Heb. 2:17). Thus, he was the complete propitiation for fallen men to be redeemed.”

He is the only man God ever raised from the dead unto everlasting life in order to confirm that he was who he had said he was—the Son of God.

“(Acts 17:31; Rom. 1:4). The resurrection of Jesus Christ was God keeping His promise to His Son, and also His affirmation to all men that Jesus is “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6).

He is the only man whom God highly exalted as “Lord” and “Head of the Church,” and to whom God has given all authority in heaven and on earth.

“(Dan. 7:13-14; Phil. 2:9; Acts 2:36; Eph. 1:22; Matt. 28:18). As Pharaoh exalted Joseph to his right hand and gave him all authority in Egypt (Gen. 41:37-46), so God has given Jesus functional equality with Himself. Jesus Christ is now God’s “right hand man” (Eph. 1:20), carrying out the work that will eventually restore this fallen world.”

He is the only man who is now the Mediator between God and mankind.

“(1 Tim. 2:5). It is Jesus Christ to whom God has given the power to “save to the uttermost” all who call upon his name, because he ever lives to make intercession for us (Heb. 7:25).”

He is the only man who will gather together all Christians to meet him “in the air”.

“(1 Thess. 4:17) and give each one a new body like his own (Phil. 3:21). As the promised “seed” of the woman (Gen. 3:15), Jesus Christ will produce fruit after his kind, a race of people living forever.”

He is the only man who will one day return to the earth, destroy all evil men (and eventually destroy Satan and his evil spirit cohorts), and rule the earth as King for 1000 years.

“(Rev. 19:11-20:7). At his first coming to the earth to Israel, Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb of God, but he will come again as the Lion of Judah to save his people, Israel, and destroy all God’s enemies.”

He is the only man who will raise from the dead every human being who has ever lived.

“(John 5:21, 25). As God has given Jesus “life in himself,” so he will raise up all people.”

He is the only man who will judge all men and women of all time.

“(John 5:22, 27). Jesus will righteously judge all people, granting everlasting life to those who deserve it, and annihilating all the wicked (Acts 17:31; John 5:28, 29).”

He is the only man who will restore on a new earth the Paradise that the First Adam lost.

“(1 Cor. 15:24-28). As “the Last Adam,” Jesus was God’s Contingency Plan to salvage His original plan that Adam’s disobedience thwarted, that is, a perfect race of people living forever on a perfect earth. Amen.”

He is the only man who is our Savior, our Redeemer, our Mediator, our Lord, our constant Companion, our Best Friend, our Big Brother, the Light of our lives, our Peace, our Joy, and our Mentor in the art of faith.

He is the Lover of our souls, and that is why we love him and confess him as Lord (Rom. 10:9).

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