Has anyone ever seen the movie, "Zeitgeist"?

Wow! and it only took you A WHOLE DAY to come up with that excellent comeback!! :) good job!

toadaly: The link he gave goes to a rather short page with nothing but quotes of people who said they heard explosions when WTC7 goes down.

I would love to hear how anyone thinks they shipped in the tonnes of explosives required and carefully placed them throughout the building without anyone noticing.

…your noisy response suggests the opposite. But feel free to ask an advisor to lock the question, if you feel it was a mistake to post it.

…or you can simply mark the question as ‘anonymous’

it made ME rethink a lot of things mikeh…I still suggest that everyone should see the movie. I was expecting people to be interested and open-minded about the movie.. not negative like you…

hey, I wasn’t saying I couldn’t handle people disagreeing with me, by all means, go ahead!.. I just wanted to retract my question (as a joke) because its causing conflicts…

Here’s what actually happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTC7#Collapse

Why are absurdly complicated and unlikely conspiracy theories required?

I was expecting people to be interested and open-minded about the movie..

…and why would you presume people would all think like you?

sigh I knew someone would claim that it was all accurate.

Here’s a an article that covers just some of the comprehensive debunking that’s been done: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/12/your_friday_dose_of_woo_and_now_for_some.php

The best bit is, the conspiracy theorists can’t even get straight what the conspiracy is, why their various weird components are necessary for it, or even who perpetrated it.

“what I’ve noticed is that SOME people seem to have nothing better to do with their lives than sitting at a computer all day, telling people that they’re wrong about what they believe.”

Isn’t that EXACTLY what you are doing? Telling people they are wrong about what they believe because it differs from what YOU believe.

* On the other hand we have reports of people hearing things that “sounded like explosions” - the sort of sound thousands of tonnes of concrete crashing into each other might make when a building falls down, perhaps?

I may be mistaken, but I thought he was talking about WTC7, not WTC1 or WTC2. Your description is the typical conspiracy description for the collapse of WTC1 and WTC2.

it was MY opinion of the fking movie! FOR GOD SAKES DO YOU PEOPLE PURPOSELY COME ON HERE TO BASH PEOPLE FOR HAVING AN OPINION?! FFS GET A LIFE!

That’s all it is… your opinion… nothing more… nothing less. You decided to voice your opinion, with no other reason than your desire state your opinion about something. On an social website, there’s bound to be people who don’t agree with you. If you simply cannot handle that without kicking and screaming… then don’t bother talking… at all…

Or… try asking FOR ADVICE (this is an advice website, after all).

nothing better to say?

The WTC7 workers that noticed thermate strapped to the infrastucture of that building might be employed right now by Marvel using their super-human x-ray vision for the good of humanity… speculation on my part.

I wasnt aware that demolition teams routinely prepared inhabited buildings… seems that it would constitiute a fire hazard.

The elimination of SEC records was a possible motive for the destruction of WTC7… you are confusing the facts. PNAC [Project for a New American Century] provided a proposal for American invasion and occupation of the greater Middle East. The project concluded that a “New Pearl Harbor” was prerequisite. Interestingly many members of PNAC were also seated in President Bush’s cabinet pre 9/11.

Absurd?… You bandy about desciptives loosely… entertaining to a point but smacks of obstinacy from a self described skeptic. Absurd?… I would describe three skyscrapers collapsing into themselves via fire damage on the same day at practically freefall speed for the first time in history as such. Each peculiarity not a caveat but rather fuel to the smoldering rubble that is the official conspiracy you endorse… pardon the pun.

For whatever reason your mind is made up. You choose to ridicule dissident opinion. Thats ok… this isnt for your benefit. Perhaps you are inadvertently tackling this problem from a scientific perspective… and not allowing the criminal aspects of the matter any sway. This is a criminal investigation… the motives of men DO impact this matter. The first question asked in such an investigation is “Cui Bono?”… “Who Benefits?”… The Taliban are not so stupid to pick a fight with the worlds lone superpower. Common sense.

“Who Benefits?” Hmmm…???… Haliburton and numerous gov’t contractors… Silverstein Properties… PNAC… it’s an uncanny turn of events for the fortunes of PNAC… damn… they really called that one.

The Taliban?… Emmanuel Goldstein… erm… Tim Osman… erm… I mean… Osama Bin Laden… the modern day troglodyte?… not so much.

“I would love to hear how anyone thinks they shipped in the tonnes of explosives required and carefully placed them throughout the building without anyone noticing.”

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911security.html?q=911security.html

How much do you love me… arachnid?

I went into it interested and open-minded. Then I recognised that they were conspiracy theorists and kooks and not really worth my time. Being “open minded” implies critical assessment of what you take in, not credulous acceptance of everything.

“Plausible” is definitely subjective in your usage.

The videos show a 47 story building falling symmetrically into its own footprint. Flinging boulders at buildings tends not to cause this… else the highly paid professional demolition teams would be hard pressed to validate those incredibly expensive estimates.

“…the conspiracy theorists have no plausible reason why anyone would cook up an elaborate and unlikely conspiracy to knock down a building that would have plausibly fallen down on its own.”

Guess not when you cherry pick what to read… from the article:

“[WTC 7] contained offices of the FBI, Department of Defense, IRS (which contained prodigious amounts of corporate tax fraud, including Enron’s), US Secret Service, Securities & Exchange Commission (with more stock fraud records), and Citibank’s Salomon Smith Barney, the Mayor’s Office of Emergency Management and many other financial institutions. [Online Journal] The SEC has not quantified the number of active cases in which substantial files were destroyed [by the collapse of WTC 7]. Reuters news service and the Los Angeles Times published reports estimating them at 3,000 to 4,000. They include the agency’s major inquiry into the manner in which investment banks divvied up hot shares of initial public offerings during the high-tech boom. …”Ongoing investigations at the New York SEC will be dramatically affected because so much of their work is paper-intensive,” said Max Berger of New York’s Bernstein Litowitz Berger & Grossmann. “This is a disaster for these cases.” [New York Lawyer]

Citigroup says some information that the committee is seeking [about WorldCom] was destroyed in the Sept. 11 terror attack on the World Trade Center. Salomon had offices in 7 World Trade Center, one of the buildings that collapsed in the aftermath of the attack. The bank says that back-up tapes of corporate emails from September 1998 through December 2000 were stored at the building and destroyed in the attack. [TheStreet] Inside [WTC 7 was] the US Secret Service’s largest field office with more than 200 employees. …”All the evidence that we stored at 7 World Trade, in all our cases, went down with the building,” according to US Secret Service Special Agent David Curran. [TechTV]

The collapse of WTC 7 also profited Silverstein Properties to the tune of ~$500 million through insurance payments.”

The recurring reason conspiracy theorists have provided as to why the elaborate and unlikey attack on the U.S. by the Taliban took place is because…”they hate our freedom”

It just suggests that what I’ve noticed is that SOME people seem to have nothing better to do with their lives than sitting at a computer all day, telling people that they’re wrong about what they believe

No… it doesn’t… you’re just assuming that if someone disagrees with you, they ‘have nothing better to do, blah blabbity blah…’

…so quit assuming… it undermines the validity of your opinions in general.

Course it would ill poeple to be open-minded once in a while

…believing conspiracy films DOES NOT make you open-minded. You’re just more likely to succumb to PARANOIA.

WOW!!… Have I the honor of being that certain someone?… Flattered!

Having skimmed the article posted above… filled with ad hominem [for shame arachnid] and strawman arguments… I urge anyone not smitten with Michael Shermer to follow up by reading “Debunking 9/11 Debunking” as previously suggested… this time with a first hand example of yellow journalism for reference. Of interest is the articles failure to mention WTC 7. Nothing new in the woodworks here… more debunking what no one was thinking… congrats!

Never seen “Zeitgeist.” As for material concerning the most recent and pernicious act of government conspiracy… check out the works of Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas… “Loose Change 2nd edition”… “Loose Change Final Cut”… “Fabled Enemies.” Found at Youtube or google video. Read David Ray Griffin’s “Debunking 9/11 Debunking.” Visit Michael Rivero’s WHATREALLYHAPPENED website…

http://whatreallyhappened.com/

Make your mind up for yourself… history is the result of successful conspiracies. No doubt 9/11 was the result of conspiracy… the question raised isnt whether there was conspiracy or not… but who conspired.

There is nothing about conspiracy theroies that makes one “question everything.” In fact, conspiracy theories are crafted specifically to shut down questioning. Conspiracy theories begin with a preconceived notion of events and the evidence is then shaped to fit that notion. A proper inquiry begins with a gathering of evidence with the conclusion shaped from the study of facts.

If your goal is to expand your ability to think independently, absorbing biased, subjective evidence that flies in the face of 1,000 years of established scientific method is heading in the exact opposite direction.

What’re you talking about?… I wasn’t talking about deleting the thread… I’m talking about the post I made.. I double posted by accident (“and I really don’t appreciate being talked about while I’m not here to defend myself. >.>” ) <=== that, its there twice, and it wont delete.. I’m not going to hide my identity, or try to get my question locked.

Erm no.. It doesn’t. It just suggests that what I’ve noticed is that SOME people seem to have nothing better to do with their lives than sitting at a computer all day, telling people that they’re wrong about what they believe. Course it would ill poeple to be open-minded once in a while sarcasm

I 2nd arachnid. The first section is ok, although some of the claims are a bit shakey - the overall theme is reasonably accurate. The rest of the movie is crap.

micegenymiser: I said I’d “love to hear”, not “love the person who tells me”. And all that page has is speculation about who could have been in a position to do it. But where are the scores of witnesses seeing people carting the thousands of kilos of explosives required for a controlled demolition in? Where are the WTC7 workers who noticed piles of explosives strapped to support beams when they came in to work?

Ask any competent demolitions expert and I’m sure you’ll get the same answer: It’s simply not possible to set up a controlled demolition of a building without the inhabitants noticing. The very idea is absurd. And if eliminating records was the goal, this has to be the most convoluted and unlikely conspiracy ever.

Now, I’ve got better things to do than argue…

Yeah, you’ve said that more than once now, so when will you actually live up to it, and stop your whinging?

I won’t be checking back to this thread due to something called MATURITY!

Oh my… it would seem we have a new poster child for hypocrisy…

(Oh btw, I got a warning about my “argumentative and offensive” posts, saying that if I don’t tone it down I’ll get my account deleted.. and if I do, over this… IT’LL BE TOTALLY WORTH IT! !)

…so much for maturity.

So… on the one hand we have a NIST report with no plausible reason to distrust it.

On the other hand we have reports of people hearing things that “sounded like explosions” - the sort of sound thousands of tonnes of concrete crashing into each other might make when a building falls down, perhaps? And the videos of the scene show nothing that resembles anything other than an unstable building falling down. And the conspiracy theorists have no plausible reason why anyone would cook up an elaborate and unlikely conspiracy to knock down a building that would have plausibly fallen down on its own.

All the WTC conspiracy theories are like this: Elaborate concoctions that are made up after the fact, with no rhyme or reason, and a complete inability to critically assess evidence.

“Why are absurdly complicated and unlikely conspiracy theories required?”

Good Question… You were describing the official take… were you not?

Read carefully and the article states that NIST [National Institute of Standards and Technology] has yet to come to a consensus on the cause of the collapse.

Here’s what really happened via WHATREALLYHAPPENED: http://whatreallyhappened.com/content/questions-and-answers-about-nist-wtc-7-investigation

read/compare/contrast

I think that “lol” pretty much sums it up. krimmy, you have managed to take a perfectly logical, interesting question and twist it into a “terrible two’s” baby tantrum.

“and I really don’t appreciate being talked about while I’m not here to defend myself” lord, girl…baby, baby, suck your thumb…

Intelligent debate seems to escape you. Debate just by definition is to examine a question by presenting and considering arguments on BOTH sides. When people responded with a view different from yours, you attacked. That is a childish way to present yourself and I think you are capable of so much more.

and I really don’t appreciate being talked about while I’m not here to defend myself. >.> I’ve been trying to delete this post, but it wont ..

I seen that on youtube! Very interesting post- everyone needs to see this. I found it interesting what they said about greek gods, and jesus. Its like a 10 part movie.

…where’s yours? Still working on it?

You want to continue this feud do it in FunMail

interesting 0.0

loool.. I’m sorry I asked my question in the first place^^;;

…do you?

lol…

Zeitgeist? I think I heard of it but thank you! I’ll check it out.

wow, throwing fish. a threat. hmmm…

…but… you’re still talking…

Already went over it… she doesn’t get it…

I’ve already said all I had to say.. its utopia, I was asking.. considering she has nothing better to say than “lol”

I’ve seen it, very interesting. Makes you think aye.

again. lol. lol.

I already TOLD her what to do about the thread… but… she… no… listen…

I love our woo… please… don’t say it’s over

lol.lol.

I give up. The woo is too strong with this one, and it’s easy to defend a position when you don’t actually pick one and stick with it.

how am I assuming that if someone disagrees with me they have nothing better to do..

…because… that’s the ONLY reason you brought it up.

AND that some people just seriously have nothing better to do than to bash others for having an opinion

…similarly to YOU complaining about people who don’t agree with you.

Don’t try to shut me up, you bastard.

…name-calling now? Go ahead… invalidate yourself FURTHER.

no, I was just nice enough not to call you a baby when you first derailed the discussion with your little fit.

You are playing with the big kids now and would do better to learn to nicely share your toys.

I watched the first section, which seemed good. Unfortunately, the second section delves deep into thoroughly debunked 911-truth-ism. Basically, everything in the second section is an out-and-out lie. I didn’t bother continuing to watch after about halfway through, and now I wonder just how accurate the first section is.