Why Jehova Witnesses don't believe of Jesus Christ as God?

There’s a difference between respecting a person (and their right to hold beliefs), and respecting the beliefs themselves. Beliefs in and of themselves deserve no respect just because someones asserts they’re sincerely held or precious to them.

Hey, I said answers with respect,jimhal! If you don’t like people to be disrespectful to you, don’t be disrespectful yourself!

If we believe in God, no matter what you said will change us or me from my Faith. And the question I asked wasn’t about to insult others peoples opinions or beliefs, as some like to do.

“repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ…

and ye, shall be saved. period. “

And no matter how good a person you are, if you didn’t believe while alive, you are cast into to hell for eternity…

That god is one egotistical and vengeful SOB!!

Using the names of the real Apostles to sign them

That could’ve just as easily been done with the books of the Bible as well…

“some of the early Fathers banned them as fake..because it deviated from the true Faith or message.”

Sounds like circular reasoning to me. These books are fake because they say something different to these other books, which are real because… why exactly?

If that what you think, but those people are realy respectul and know to be true human beings. We know each other since more than 4 years ago and we talk about each different point of view. I know that some can’t believe it, but is true.

I wasn’t talking about your ‘friends’ …I was speaking in general, stop acting so defensive.

..” that Atehist question everything

That statement is even MORE incorrect than your last one…

And is true some friends had a Jehova’s Witnesses Bible and there are a lot of things missing there.

I forgot to ask… which version of the Bible are you comparing it to?

If that what you think, but those people are realy respectul and know to be true human beings. We know each other since more than 4 years ago and we talk about each different point of view. I know that some can’t believe it, but is true. And the” …questioning even the air we breath..” is a form of saying (that we have here) ..” that Atehist question everything”

And God already knows my heart. He is the only one that I trust and never let me down. Thanks to Him I’m in this point in my life. And like we say here: “Some people like to find 5 paws to a cat (even when it has only 4)”

That wants to look more in a situation that there really is. I believe in God the way I believe. And I’m true to my Faith.

I’m sorry that you think that way, here in my Country I have friends that are Buddhist, Hinduist, Metaphysics, Islamist (but not violent , they follow their Coran as it says in it, not following violence), Baptist…etc. And they respect my Faith as I respect theirs. We don’t speak like you do : with foul language about each others beliefs, even wgen we already know what we think of the other’s religion. Respect is smething important. And I belief that you need good deeds but the other 99% is God’s Grace that we win in the belief in Jesus Christ.

I do not need to show respect for a belief that thinks that good deeds in life is not enough to be “saved”. It is only some christians who believe that people will be cast for all eternity into hell simply because they doubted something as unknowable as a diety. A diety whom their is not one shred of evidence of his existence.

dzorro, do you really believe that the only way to heaven is belief, or is it good deeds?

If you believe it is good deeds, then I really don’t care what else you believe. If you think it is belief only that gets you into heaven, then I submit that the god you believe in is a vengeful egotisitical bastard.

Sorry if you don’t like it, but as Christians althought I’m not a Preacher we are people( or I am as it is the way to behave…) that defend our beliefs , but more: we defend God’s name, treat it with respect as is the way to do: not using it with foul language as He is God and the Creator. That is how Christians should behave; and You find that is something bad that I will never stop believing in God? “ that I will never grow”? I tell you ; I never was growing when I didn’t believed in Him; but since I believed I feel as I grew more than ever in His name and understanding in His word as I still continue growing in it with His wisdom every day! Amen. And I didn’t lived an easy live.

I know what was to be an Atheist questioning even the air we breath…and found a peace of mind that never had when I was Atheist.

The certain gospels that would up in the new testament were chosen was because constatine and the council of nicea picked the stories that would most fit in with the pagan rituals they were replacing. They wanted to make it easier for people to accept the new religion if all of the rituals and holidays were based on pagan ones. That is one of the biggect differences with JWs. They don’t celebrate christian holidays because they are all just leftovers from pagan days.

Actually, none of the gospels were authored during the lifetimes of anyone who could have been present at the putative events. And picking an arbitrary set of books, then claiming other ones (of similar antiquity) can’t be accurate because they contradict the ones you’ve already picked isn’t a particularly sound strategy if what you want is accuracy.

I’m not exactly sure why this is such an issue. There is more sciptural evidence ackowledging them as separate entities. And the common practice is to refer to God as GOD, and Jesus as the SON of God (separate). Many christians often pray to GOD (Dear God in heaven, or Our Father who art in heaven…), and often END the prayer in JESUS’s name. This indicates they are communicating to GOD, through the SON.

Even the definition of Trinity (the union of three persons [Father, Son, and Holy Ghost] in one Godhead) …the word UNION, implies a CONNECTION of the three separate entities. They are as one, meaning they work together toward the same purpose, synchronized. But they remain three entities.

The modern bible uses only a selection of many books that were previously considered to be gospel. The Nicene council decided, for christendom, which books would be part of the ‘canonical’ bible. Obviously the same doesn’t apply to other denominations: They’re under no obligation to accept the same books (or the same translations of those books) as accurate.

I am not a Jw but find it hard to believe that Jesus is God. I would like to know how you come to this conclusion. First of all when Jesus died on the cross he said Father forgive them for they no not what they do. Who was Jesus talking to, if he is God he wouldn’t be talking to him self. The model pray he says our father who art in heaven. He spoke to the appostles about his father in heaven. When he was asked by a women who I cannot remember her name at this stage to bless her son and have him to be on the right side of him in Heaven Jesus said it wasnt for him to be able to make that decesion but for God. He spoke about the fouls of the air that God feeds them so are you not worth more than them. Why didnt Jesus say that he is the one that feeds the birds. So these are just a few that shows that Jesus always spoke about his father so how can he be God.

Thanks for all your answers. I have listened about the Nicene Creed and the Atanhanasian Creed in Bible Studies here at the Church I assist. And read about the Nicaea Council on Elaine Pagels books about the History of the Early Christians. Some of those other Gospels I have checked cause I have ‘The Gnostic Bible’ and the Septuagint Bible with the Deuterocanonic Books & Apocrypha, including the 4 Books of Maccabees, that doesn’t appear on any Bible now, even I have the Tanahk(Jewish Bible or Torah/ The old Testament).

Is very interesting those Deuterocanonic cause it can be used to learn more boyut the History of the Jewish people.

But some of the others like The gospel of Magdalenee or the Gospel of Thomas or the Gospel of Phillip…and even one from Judas…some of the early Fathers banned them as fake..because it deviated from the true Faith or message. It looked as more Gnostics…or Essenes (Esenios).

Of course in those times as now there should’ve existed some people who could fake some. Using the names of the real Apostles to sign them as on some of the Apocrypha or Gnostics Gospels.

(The Gospels that comprehend the Bible are true).. the Because They are the account of the Apostles choosed by Jesus as His Witnesses, that were there with Him when He was on Earth. And even if some say that they could been written by some of His Apprentices, would have been dictated by the Apostles directly as we can see that the dates come close to Jesus death and resurrection, not so far from the events and even on the Apostles life time dates that had come to us . Of course with persecution and all , could be difficult for them, but the Scriptures are here.

Gnostic (true Gnostics from Middle East) doesn’t think of Jesus as Messiah or even as God, They think of Him as an usurper of John The Baptist; they even still celebrate baptism as John the Baptist used to do..And see Jesus as John’s enemy.

Well, I was comparing it to the other versions; Catholic, Protestants, etc. The Jehova’s W Bible is different to all on that they changed passages. And that can’t be done being Christians.

Its been done… time and time again… The word ‘VERSION’ implies a change or an update. Since EVERY version of the Bible differs from the others in some way or another. Which one is the ORIGINAL? Which do you follow, and how do you KNOW its the correct one?

It is interesesting that when I prayed to God that passage(the name & number) appeared in my mind, when I didn’t even knew if it existed or what it said.

Suuure it did… you prayed to God, and he inspired you quote a long series of scripture about ‘righteous circumcisions’ …maybe instead, you should quote the scriptures that conflict between the JWB and the bible YOU use (whichever version that is)

You find that is something bad that I will never stop believing in God? “ that I will never grow”?

I didn’t say that. There’s nothing wrong with believing in God, but there IS something wrong with claiming that your ‘beliefs’ will NEVER change. Beliefs are FAR more complex than simply ‘believing or NOT’

I tell you; I never was growing when I didn’t believed in Him

That’s not true… when you didn’t believe, you still took in information ABOUT God, and that information eventually brought you to to the point where you believed. So, your mentality had to change or GROW, before you could believe. And now that you DO believe… those beliefs will change too. If you claim they won’t …then you’re just lying to yourself, and God.

I know what was to be an Atheist questioning even the air we breath…and found a peace of mind that never had when I was Atheist.

I’ve never heard an Atheist question the air we breathe. Peace of mind, only because you needed answers for unanswerable questions, and you fear your own mortality. Some people can live life happily, just by accepting the fact that those questions ARE unanswerable.

And they respect my Faith as I respect theirs. We don’t speak like you do : with foul language about each others beliefs, even wgen we already know what we think of the other’s religion. Respect is smething important.

You have to EARN respect. Don’t confuse ‘respect’ with ‘common courtesy’

If you don’t like people to be disrespectful to you, don’t be disrespectful yourself!

…think of it this way… preaching when you aren’t a preacher, is insulting.

If we believe in God, no matter what you said will change us or me from my Faith.

…you say that as if words have no effect. Which is foolish, considering it was words that brought you to believe what you do in the first place. People’s beliefs change ALL THE TIME. To claim that you will never change, is to claim that you will never grow.

:) The meaning wasn’t about “righteous crcumcisions” as you said. But as it can’t be understood as a normal book…As I said “ the ones who understand will understand “ Not all can understand the word of God…we need Faith. And the rest come along. But already I understood the way the JW are, thanks to a friend.

You are asking a very good question that really requires a very detailed explanation, more than can be given here. In short, they rely on two, of many, scriptures: Acts 7:55-56 and Exodus 6:3. These scriptures refer to Jesus and Jehovah as though they were one. Most Christian religions believe that Christ was in the beginning and was before the world was as Peter states. The Old Testament teaches us that Jehovah created the earth while the New Testament teaches us that it was Jesus Christ. It was this kind of confusion that gave way to the creeds. Many find this difficult to believe because most Christian religions get their view of God as handed down from the Nicene Creed or the Athenasian Creed, both of which were negotiated compromises between several Christian beliefs of the time. These creeds define Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit as one indiscernible entity; “neither confounding the person nor dividing the substance.” The explanation I’ve always heard is that they are like the three phases of water: ice, liquid and steam. We see want we want to see and discard everything that doesn’t support our expectations of what the right answer should be. JWs have viewed the scriptures in a way that supports what they expect to be correct and have strived to make that easier to understand through their literature. Most Christian religions do the same. I think they got some of it right with Jehovah. However, I think they and many religions missed the mark with the other members of the godhead. Let me tell you why. John 5:43 & John 10:25 both refer to the work Christ did in his father’s name. (Why the distinction if they were the same?) And in Eph. 1: 2&3 the scriptures refer to God and Jesus Christ as separate, in fact, as Jesus being the son of God. On the cross Jesus prayed for his Father to forgive his persecutors. Why if he were the Father, would he ask for them to be forgiven? Why not just do it himself? In the Garden of Gethsemane Christ prayed that the apostles would be one with him as he was one with the Father. Why would Jesus pray that his apostles would be one with him just as he and his father were one? Did he truly wish them to stop being separate people? Or did He wish them to become one in spirit and purpose. In no other way could they fulfill their coming assignment as missionaries and teachers to the Jews and non-Jews. These things only make sense if we see the Godhead as separate and distinct individuals with separate and distinct roles; acting as one in unity of purpose. This disagrees with the creeds. Understand, though, that there is only one god we need to deal with to get our salvation. That is Jesus Christ. He fulfilled his role on earth and continues to fulfill his role in the hereafter; leading us to salvation and eternal life with his father. The Holy Spirit is doing the same but in a more ethereal way. Together, they are all working for our salvation, our return to our Father in Heaven and eternal life.

bfj… absolutely beautiful explanation… loved it :)

we may never completely understand the Godhead… until we are actually in that realm… however, we can do the best we can to figure it out, from what has been written.

In addition to what you have written a few of the thoughts that come to mind are :

when the work that has been given to Jesus is finished… (that of the redemption of mankind ) he will turn things back over to the Father.

when he was on earth, he prayed to the Father, in heaven.

the word says that no one has ever seen the Father…

Yet, it says that when you have seen me, (Jesus) you have seen the Father.

it also says that I and the Father, are one.

and one of the last prayers that Jesus prayed while on earth, is,

Father, let them (us) be one, as you and I are one.

also, it says that Jesus Christ, was fully God, and fully man.

God is in heaven, and always has been.

Jesus was sent to the earth, to fulfill a misson.

He completed that work on earth, and returned to heaven.

when he did, he sent back the comforter, or the Holy spirit…

which is now on the earth, and living within the individuals that have received the salvation that Christ came to give.

when the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, the ones who have not accepted what Jesus offered, will be left alone… to face the Anti-Christ.

the way is being paved for him, as we speak.

Multitudes will follow him, because they refused to follow Christ.

many will be saved, during the tribulation period, however it will cost them their lives.

Now is the day of salvation.

Call out to Jesus , while he may be found.

The days are growing darker and darker…

time, as we know it, is coming to an end.

Everything that can be shaken, is being shaken, so that only those things that cannot be shaken, shall remain.

Harden not your hearts, as in the day of provocation.

Whosoever shall call upon the name of Jesus Christ, shall be saved.

dzorro… the description you gave of the gnostics… is the very reason they are rejected by mainstream Christianity.

The faith has been handed down from the apostles, and the ones that are truly seeking the truth, have protected it. Many attempts have been made, to water down the message, or change it or pollute it, however, many have given their lives, in order to perserve it, and it still stands today. All it takes to find the truth, is to truly desire the truth, and seek the God that gave it.

His word says that “my sheep, shall hear my voice, and another, they will not follow.”

The key is a person who desires truth…

and also, one that has the Holy Spirit living within him/her.

some have settled for much less than God had in mind, for his people.

And what better way to promote confusion,

than for man, to create all kinds of faiths… and beliefs… and systems???

The message of the gospel, is simple.

repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ…

and ye, shall be saved. period.

Oh. Do you think that? :) Well, I was comparing it to the other versions; Catholic, Protestants, etc. The Jehova’s W Bible is different to all on that they changed passages. And that can’t be done being Christians. And last night to my mind came a number of a passage (not knowing that if it existed ) I checked and it is very important what it says, like always happens to me since I began to use a Bible and ask God, He really answers, but thru the Bible , thru His Word. This is what appeared, understand those who can , and as Jesus Christ said: “ He who has ears to hears, let him hear!” (Matthew 11:15).

Romans 3:

“What advantage then has the .Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? Much in ever way! Chiefly because to them were comitted the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make faithfulness of God without effect? Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but everyman a liar. As is it written:

‘That You may be justified in Your words, and may not overcome when You are judged.’

But if our righteousness demostrates the righteousness of God, what can we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world? For the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why I am also still judged as a sinner? And why not say ‘ let us do evil that good may come’?- as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.

All have sinned:

What then Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are under sin. As it is written: ‘ There is none righteous, no one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; they have together become unprofitable; there is none who does good; no, not one. Their throat is an open tomb; with their tongues they have practiced deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips; whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness. Ther feet are swift to shed blood; Destruction and misery are in their ways; And the way of peace they have not known. There is no fear of God before their eyes; ‘

Now we know that whatever the laws says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God’s righteousness through faith:

But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is not difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the rdemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God sent forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demostrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, since there is one God who will justify the crcumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then make void of the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. “

(Romans 3 1-31)

*When it says “oracles of God “ reffers to God’s word.

It is interesesting that when I prayed to God that passage(the name & number) appeared in my mind, when I didn’t even knew if it existed or what it said. But for some reason was. And I added it here for those who will understand it (as I understood already)

Thanks for all your answers again, for those with real serious answers, I appreciate them.

God Bless you.