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What did you think of when you first read that Statement? Christians vs. Islam? Christians vs. Satanist? Christians vs. Wiccan? What is the connecting factor in everybodies thoughts? Christianity. Now before anyone reads this and starts trying to be all high and mighty and telling me I'm going to hell, just first hear what I have to say. I do beleive in God, I know the sacrifices he made to give us what he does. Now having said that let me say this.
Religion sucks. Religion is based around a good idea, the idea that people can get together and worship God in all of his glory, but like all good ideas, religion is corrupted by man. Anymore religion is nothing more than a power struggle and it has been like that since the Church of England. Church isn't about getting together to worship anymore!
Church is a party. People go to church to socialize, lets go to church but lets get there early so I can talk to people, then we'll sit through an hour long service and yell Hallelujah a couple of times and then we'll all go eat together hows that sound? Thats church anymore.
Christianity is in a civil war. There are so many different kinds of "Christian" that now your all fighting yourselfs! My Grandpa is a Pentecostal preacher and I love him so much, but he is so stubborn and stuck in his ways, when I go to visit him of the summer and Spring Break I like to go to church with my freind Matt which is a Baptist church, and he ask's me, "Are you going to church?" and I tell him I'm going to church with Matt, to which he responds, "Then your not actually going to church." A woman from my Grandfathers church that I have known all my life, she used to babysit for me and everything, aproached me the other day and deftly informed me that I was going to hell.
Now before I let you go to slander me and inform me of my inevitable doom, let me tell you this. I beleive in God and I worship God, In My Own Way, so don't you dare try to judge me for not beleiving in Him. You can tell me I'm going to hell for not beleiving you and your specific religion.Or! Or you can try to climb down off your high Christian horse and have an intelligent discussion with me about it. Because I respect everyone of you for actually beleiving in something, whether that be God, or science or whatever it is you choose to beleive, but to every person who try's to put me down without stepping up to the plate and trying to defend your own beleifs in an honorable matter and trying to slander me for my beleifs, then don't even bother to speak, because I won't listen.
Thoughts? Opinions?
"http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/the-case-for-christ.htm"
It's important to note that this website uses no references whatsoever when presenting its research on the historical evidence of Jesus. Broad statements are made about research and scholars that have no basis whatsoever.
They also make several things up.
"Starting in about 40 AD and continuing to about 90 AD, the eye-witnesses to the life of Jesus Christ, including Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, James, Peter and Jude write the Gospels, letters and books that later become the New Testament."
Here is a list of many Biblicaly scholars and their views on when the NT books were written http://www.errantskeptics.org/DatingNT.htm
The earliest dates of the NT are for 1 Thessalonians and Galatians, both of which were written no earlier than 50 AD, almost 20 years after when Jesus is said to have been crucified. Most of the earliest books of the NT were Paul's writings, and the Gospels and other books were written starting 15-20 years after when Paul started to write, going all the way to around 110 AD. That's an important distinction to make, because Paul is largely responsible for the spread of Christianity and laying the foundation for its beliefs. It's entirely possible that the Gospels were written after Paul began his mission work to provide a basis for the life and ministry of Jesus. Given the time gap, this is plausible.
The website also falsely states that all of the above listed men were eyewitnesses of the life of Jesus. Luke even SAYS in his book that he didn't know Jesus personally, but that he wrote his book and Acts after a thorough investigation. While Luke certainly did do his research, referring to some actual historical people and events, he also changes much of the account of Jesus death and resurrection from the earlier Gospels of Mark and Matthew. Paul was also not an eyewitness to Jesus life, and the website fabricated this.
"Because Biblical scholars, using the historical records of Paul and his early travels to Damascus and Jerusalem, place the above scripture at about 35 A.D., just 3 to 5 years after the death of Jesus Christ."
The above scripture they're referring to is the Pauline Creed, presented in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8. THis is one of the first creeds outlining core Christian beliefs. But the website very falsely claims that 1 Cor was written 3-5 years after the death of Jesus Christ. Most scholars date this book to the mid 50s AD, or about 25 years after the death of Jesus. That's a flagrant historical error, and this website should be discounted for making things like this up.
"In fact, a first century Galilean fishing boat was recently unearthed from the mud and preserved. Although we have no idea who the boat belonged to, it matches the biblical record for the vessels used by Christ’s disciples. "
Aside from the fact that no reference is given for where and when this unearthing took place, it's obvious to any reader that the author is grasping for straws. They even admit the irrelevancy of this find by saying they have no idea who it belonged to.
"Other remarkable sites in Jerusalem include the "Southern Steps" where Jesus and his followers entered the Temple, the Pool of Bethesda where Jesus healed a crippled man, and the recently uncovered Pool of Siloam where Jesus healed a blind man."
Using their logic, I can go to Mount Olympus and say, "This is where Zeus and the Greek gods really lived, according to the historical record".
"Elsewhere, we find more evidence for Jesus and the leaders presiding over his trial and crucifixion, including an inscription that mentions the Roman procurator of the time, Pontius Pilate, and the actual bones of the Jewish High Priest of the time, Caiaphas, preserved in an ornate ossuary (bone box)."
Again, the existence of Pontius Pilate does not prove the existence, death, and resurrection of Jesus. Of course we know Pilate existed, but we don't have any record of the trial of Jesus either from Roman or Jewish records.
They close by saying the empty tomb is proof of Jesus resurrection. All I can say about that is, read how the resurrection is described in the Gospels, and compare it to the order in which the Gospels were written. Each time, the story gets more and more elaborate, with new juicy details thrown in.
This website is a very, very poor example of "evidence" to support Jesus. Anyone who reads it needs to do so with a skeptical mind, researching everything they mention carefully. Don't use it as a basis for belief.
Prince, I agree with much of what you have said. And it all boils down to flesh vs. spirit. We are to be spirit led.
When the flesh is in control...it overrides the spirit.
The word tells us about the flesh, and about the spirit.
It is much easier to set up a work thru the flesh, than thru the spirit.
It takes much perserverance to let the spirit lead.
The challange to all of us is " Can we be led of the Holy Spirit, in all our ways?"
Huge Challange indeed.
Thanks for addressing the issues, they will never go away, without uncovering them first.
And by the way, We are saved by the blood of Jesus... and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. His work on the cross was/is and always will be enough...
We don't have to add to it, we just have to accept it.
And, then, learn how to be led by His Spirit.
The word brings you to the spirit.
We have to be strong enough to rise above every critisism of man, and stand in what God purchased for us, thru the blood of his dear Son.
He did not come to set up denominations, he came to develop followers.
That is still his desire.
Man camps around a move of God.
And puts him in a box, saying, this is the way, it has always been done, this is the right way, etc. My way, or the highway.
Jesus says, Whosoever will, may come.
His arms are continually outstretched.
He looks for the tiniest bit of faith.
He nurtures it, and causes it to grow.
It develops into a mighty tree, that many can find shelter under.
Will the real Jesus, Please stand up???
Take heed, the counterfeits are falling like Dominoes.
Death is the last enemy,to be defeated, and religion is death.
Jesus came to give life, and it more abundantly.
God Bless...
I don't think it's just Christians who have this problem and I don't think ALL Christians are like this. I think it's a human problem. There are all kinds of people - religious and not - who are so convinced that they are right that they won't even entertain new ideas. It's a shame that most of our experiences come from the Christian community but that's to be expected if we live in an area with a Christian majority.
It hurts very much when people will not tolerate you. It hurts even more when your family won't accept you. I've experienced both and I share your pain, anger, and frustration. Nevertheless, we must keep on struggling to do what we know is right even if others try to bring us down.
As for the idea that today's Bible is the same as the original - that's hogwash. It doesn't take much knowledge of Greek to see that the New Testament suffers from some translation problems and copyists' errors. Scholars such as Bart Erhman have definitively shown that the Bibles we use now are nothing like what the early Christian community used. In fact, we now know that the first Christian communities used many different texts and argued over what was real and what wasn't (hence the need for the Nicean council). Just some food for thought there.
To Review your Points- Religion is corrupted by man. My Reason to not agree- The Bible we have today, is exactly the same as over 14,000 original manuscripts (obiviously different language). It has not changed with time. If the Bible were that easy to disprove, intellectuals like C.S. Lewis and Josh McDowell would not have been convinced of it's validity. You can google search either one of those guys to find out "Why" they believe(d) the way they did.
I'm not sure the other two points really matter if the first point is proven true...
Christians are stuck on their beliefs because Jesus said he was the ONLY way to heaven (John 14:6). He was later crucified for saying it, and 11 of the 12 disciples died as martyrs saying He was the ONLY way.
So it's actually something that's engrained in the basic fabric of "Christ followers" He said it, they believe it. And many more have believed it because the Case for Christ is so strong.
If you're really curious, then check out the evidence of people who've thought this one through.
www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/the-case-for-christ.htm
I totally agree with what you've named your question. Yes, religion has been corrupted by man, and when I go to church, it ticks me off to see some people just goinging for the "fun of it". THIS IS MY OPPINION: going to church is meant for people who are in search of the truth and would like a more in depth relationship with God. NO, you can't make/force people to believe in Him, but you can share his message to others, and that will plant a seed in their heart! Every religion is different, and it is hard to say wich one is the TRUTH. All...religions start off somewhere...and I think that the root of it all is if you believe or not. But like you, I believe in Jesus, and all he's done for me. And wheather I go to church or not, I believe that He's still in me, and He guides me where ever I go - and no matter what people say about what I believe in... it's not going to change my view of God. I dunno about you... but the way I see it is that Christianaty isn't a religion... I've just recently discovered that it's more of a relationship =)
anyhoo... take care and stay blessed
Could it be possible, you're stuck in your own disbelief ? - This is what I know to be true and it's not hard to understand, simple: God being pure cannot even look upon sin - man, even in his very best state is a sinner - on judgement day, either: your sins are covered by the blood-shed sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross (salvation and only salvation - being a nice person isn't good enough - even at our very best, we are but filthy rags), and remembered no more or they are not (your sins are not covered) - where God's great love comes into play is, He provided a WAY (Jesus) for us not to perish and live in Heaven with Him (He certainly didn't have to do this but did because He loved us so) - if you read carefully John 3:16, this is exactly what it says - each person will either accept or reject, you must decide for yourself and yes, it's so important, it has eternal consequences - He Loves you and wants you to accept God's free gift to man - Jesus - hope your heart hasn't waxed cold...Take care !!
I'm sure you know this, but Jesus said He was the ONLY way to get to heaven (John 14:6)
11 of the 12 disciples died a martyrs death because they refused to deny their Faith in Jesus.
So, Christians being "stuck" on their beliefs isn't a NEW phenomenon. It goes all the way back to Jesus himself who was crucified for stating this fact.
If you're really curious then check out the evidence of people who know "Why" they believe what they believe.
www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/the-case-for-christ.htm
There IS a strong case to say that there is ONLY ONE WAY. If "Christianity/the Bible" were easy to disprove, then it would have been done along time ago.
Is this a question? What are you asking? If we should all respect others beliefs? Bit tired im not on the ball tonight sorry lol. I agree we should all let be where religon is concerned but in saying that people of some religons just love to push it down other peoples throats. You know whaty anoyes me nore than that? Telling someone you dont believe in any religon and them sayin "im going to pray for you tonight" lol If I wanted to pray I would pray. lol. I will check back for the actual question no doubt I've stuffed up :)
Sorry amblessed if that was aimed at me I am in no place to say what is right or wrong regarding religon. I was never tought anything about it until I went to a private girls school in high. I cant say I personally am stuck in any belief because I dont have one but im all for other people having their beliefs. Actually I have to say that I admire how strong some peoples faiths are. As long as its not pushed on to me.
And I beleive that too, which is fine. If you want to worship Buddha or whoever then you can, thats perfectly fine by me as long as you can defend your beleifs by more than just saying "I'm right, you wrong, shut up." Those are the people I can't stand.
You guys are missing what I'm trying to say, I know what God did for us and I accept that, but what I am trying to say is that Christians are so caught up in trying to prove their religion that they have lost sight of what is truely important.
I just wanted to state an opinion and ask people hopw they feel about it, wouldn't you guys agree that most Christians are to stuck about their beleifs, and more than anything I just want someone to have an intelligent discussion with.
I agree ! If people are good christians as they claim then they wouldn't feel like they need to put other people down for their beliefs. People do not need to go to church to feel closer to God. We can pray anytime we want.
And I completely agree with that, which is why is tick's me off when someone asks me if I got to church and I say no, so they ask why do you not beleive in God?
*** "What did you think of when you first read that Statement?"
I thought, "how do men corrupt an idea that's man made in the first place?"
religion is man made. religion is corrupt. I have a hard time thinking of one thing that any religion has done that is ultimately helpful.
Yeh I do agree that they are stuck about their beliefs but isnt that what makes them so strong in their faith?
Will someone tell me what happened to the 12th deciple if 11 sided with jesus what did the other one do?
wow! n_n everyone should be able to believe in what they choose to without being criticized
When I read that statement, I think, well religion is man made anyway, so...
What hapened to the 12th deciple?
