Religious Deaths Vs. Athiest Deaths

“Science has come to fill in the space for a notable minority in this country. The fanaticism(and sometimes belligerentness) for it that I have seen displayed on this website alone is example unto this statement.”

Science fills the spaces in what we don’t know about the world. There is no fanatacism surrounding science. It does not have an agenda, although religious people and conservatives will claim they do because they don’t like it’s findings.

“Christian, and even some third-parties, claim the same for intelligent creation. I don’t think either one has any less credibility than the other, except to the individuals like us who judge them.”

Intelligent design is not science. It is religion dressed up in a lab coat. Its conclusion are not developed through the scientific method. It uses supposition to come to its conclusions. That is not science, and it has no credibility in the science community.

“I love how you guys love to use this word towards individuals whom you have never met, and likely wouldn’t know it if you did. You don’t know me, or any of the other you ridicule. How do you know that if we were to meet in real life without knowing it, that we would become close associates, finding much in common with the other?”

Quite honestly, I have no close personal friends or family who claim ridiculous things like evolution is not real, or that intelligent design should be taught in science class. And this is an internet message board. You need to get a thicker skin.

“And I have found research that says otherwise. Would you like some links?”

Yes please. I am assuming these are real scientific studies?

“You generally don’t miss what you don’t long for. The only struggling sacrifice I have really had to make is when dealing with those who can not put their ideologies aside to ensure a unity during tasks and exercises.”

Although my ideology is different than yours, I have no problems with you believing what you want. I am married to a believer. I have problems when your religious ideology forces its way into places it doesn’t belong, like my kids science class.

“Never said any of that. Just saying that some of us(I don’t so much any more) try to share those experiences with others.”

You did say that. You are contridicting yourself. You said people want to try and convert us because they are extremely happy. That implies the people you are trying to convert are not exremely happy. Otherwise why would you be trying to convert them. And my point was that most atheists started out as theist. It very rarely goes the other way.

“You speak of our arrogance, yet fail to admit yours. You assume that you know more about me because you have gone into the scriptures(most notably the Old Testament), and selected the passages that could be taken in the worst and most extreme contexts to condemn an ideology.”

Utter nonsense. What should I admit? That I don’t know more about chrisitianity than most christians. I have met none on this board that do. I am always willing to be proven wrong. I have not taken anything out of context. And is the old testament not part of the bible? Please show me where I have taken something out of context?

“You will never truly learn anything about someone or something if you enter into a situation with the intent of finding fault. You can never understand them because you have already decided to hate them, and are simply trying to find reasons to further do so.”

I was raised christian. I did not go into it with the intent of finding fault. I found fault all on my own from within the religion. It is what made me realize it is just mythology.

“I will admit that a number of my fellow Christians probably haven’t even cracked open a Bible in their life, but I don’t go around saying that because I have, they’re ignorant pigs if they try to challenge me due to my unique take on the religion.”

Please show me where I have once called any one an ignorant pig. Please show me once where I have called someone ignorant simply for believing? The only people who I say are ignorant are those who deny proven scientific discovery simply because it interferes with the preconceived notions of our origins.

“Oh, and if you have the time, you might want to go looking at some of the other Christian books out there. The Mormons have a few good ones. Might not be a bad idea to diversify, see what some of the individual sects have to say. Because there are a few out there who are an embarrassment, and might rub you the wrong way. You may have even grown up in such a family, thus the reason for your antipathy. “

What makes you think I would think mormons are anymore of an “embassassment” than any other religion. I see all religions as no different than spaghetti monsterism. I will stick to science for answers to the unknown. And if we don’t know, I can accept that too. I see no reason to believe in something as fantastic as an omnipotrent being without one shred of evidence. I was brought up catholic, and I have no antipathy towards it. It is just not rellevant to my life or beliefs.

—Huh? What does science have to do with religion? The only religion I know that uses science in its title is christian scientists. But there is no science involved in their beliefs at all.—

Science has come to fill in the space for a notable minority in this country. The fanaticism(and sometimes belligerentness) for it that I have seen displayed on this website alone is example unto this statement.

—Your kidding right? It is not an educated presumtion or an opinion. It is a scientific theory with a mountain of evidence to support it.—

Christian, and even some third-parties, claim the same for intelligent creation. I don’t think either one has any less credibility than the other, except to the individuals like us who judge them. This is why I believe that it is a mute point, and that neither of us should be forcing our views on the other. If you feel someone else has wronged you, wronging them back will only escalate a conflict.

—Then I guess you will be propagating your ignorance to the next generation.—

I love how you guys love to use this word towards individuals whom you have never met, and likely wouldn’t know it if you did. You don’t know me, or any of the other you ridicule. How do you know that if we were to meet in real life without knowing it, that we would become close associates, finding much in common with the other? I have a few friends who are Atheist, and an associate whose a little liberal about his obvious disdain for the religion. However, he has also expressed the futility of the two sides contending with each other, and knows of the unity that can be achieved if we stop judging each other for their personal beliefs.

—Then your experiences have been very limited. I doubt very much there is any correlation between belief and health & happiness.—

And I have found research that says otherwise. Would you like some links? I’ll have to dig them out. My bookmarks folder is quite massive…

—I don’t attack religion. I just state the facts. I wouldn’t say nothing is lost. It takes a lot of time, energy, and sacrifice to truly follow a religion.—

You generally don’t miss what you don’t long for. The only struggling sacrifice I have really had to make is when dealing with those who can not put their ideologies aside to ensure a unity during tasks and exercises.

—And what makes you think we are not extremely happy without it. It would be rather arrogant for you to think you are more happy simply because of belief in religion.—

Never said any of that. Just saying that some of us(I don’t so much any more) try to share those experiences with others. I have experienced a liberal, uncontrolled lifestyle before. I could not find the gratification I desire. In fact, I still don’t completely, but I have been in a noticeably better mood lately, and am finding my body is much healthier with a disciplined lifestyle..

–This is part of the problem with believers. They think we don’t know their “side of things”. Most non-believers were believers at one time. We know all about it. In fact we know more about it than most believers.—

You speak of our arrogance, yet fail to admit yours. You assume that you know more about me because you have gone into the scriptures(most notably the Old Testament), and selected the passages that could be taken in the worst and most extreme contexts to condemn an ideology. You will never truly learn anything about someone or something if you enter into a situation with the intent of finding fault. You can never understand them because you have already decided to hate them, and are simply trying to find reasons to further do so.

I will admit that a number of my fellow Christians probably haven’t even cracked open a Bible in their life, but I don’t go around saying that because I have, they’re ignorant pigs if they try to challenge me due to my unique take on the religion.

Oh, and if you have the time, you might want to go looking at some of the other Christian books out there. The Mormons have a few good ones. Might not be a bad idea to diversify, see what some of the individual sects have to say. Because there are a few out there who are an embarrassment, and might rub you the wrong way. You may have even grown up in such a family, thus the reason for your antipathy.

Sorry christians but there are better reasons to live moral lives, other than your Bible Just because we’re Atheists doesn’t mean we don’t care about our selves, our health, other people etc. Difference is, we don’t need an imaginary being to give us a reason to

“And there is some debate that religious people (I.e. people who attend religious services and what not) tend to be healthier, their immune systems are stronger”

utter bullshit, there is no correlation between health and religion

“Thanks hivetyrant: Do you think this could’ve been explained by a more tendency to suicides/reckless behavior”

Preposterous..

The majority of people in Swedan are atheists and they have lower crime, drugs and teen pregnancy than areas in the US where the majority of people believe in Genesis account..

I think this entry sums up my point..

While most Americans believe that getting rid of religion is an impossible goal, much of the developed world has already accomplished it. Any account of a “god gene” that causes the majority of Americans to helplessly organize their lives around ancient works of religious fiction must explain why so many inhabitants of other First World societies apparently lack such a gene. The level of atheism throughout the rest of the developed world refutes any argument that religion is somehow a moral necessity. Countries like Norway, Iceland, Australia, Canada, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium, Japan, the Netherlands, Denmark and the United Kingdom are among the least religious societies on Earth. According to the United Nations’ Human Development Report (2005) they are also the healthiest, as indicated by measures of life expectancy, adult literacy, per capita income, educational attainment, gender equality, homicide rate and infant mortality. Conversely, the 50 nations now ranked lowest in terms of human development are unwaveringly religious. Other analyses paint the same picture: The United States is unique among wealthy democracies in its level of religious literalism and opposition to evolutionary theory; it is also uniquely beleaguered by high rates of homicide, abortion, teen pregnancy, STD infection and infant mortality. The same comparison holds true within the United States itself: Southern and Midwestern states, characterized by the highest levels of religious superstition and hostility to evolutionary theory, are especially plagued by the above indicators of societal dysfunction, while the comparatively secular states of the Northeast conform to European norms. Of course, correlational data of this sort do not resolve questions of causality–belief in God may lead to societal dysfunction; societal dysfunction may foster a belief in God; each factor may enable the other; or both may spring from some deeper source of mischief. Leaving aside the issue of cause and effect, these facts prove that atheism is perfectly compatible with the basic aspirations of a civil society; they also prove, conclusively, that religious faith does nothing to ensure a society’s health.

Countries with high levels of atheism also are the most charitable in terms of giving foreign aid to the developing world. The dubious link between Christian literalism and Christian values is also belied by other indices of charity. Consider the ratio in salaries between top-tier CEOs and their average employee: in Britain it is 24 to 1; France 15 to 1; Sweden 13 to 1; in the United States, where 83% of the population believes that Jesus literally rose from the dead, it is 475 to 1. Many a camel, it would seem, expects to squeeze easily through the eye of a needle.

http://www.truthdig.com/dig/page3/200512_an_atheist_manifesto/

“ And slapping the label, “Science”, on something doesn’t make it any less religious.”

Huh? What does science have to do with religion? The only religion I know that uses science in its title is christian scientists. But there is no science involved in their beliefs at all.

“I would love to see a bipartisan school system out there, teaching only what is known as ABSOLUTE fact. The Battle of Bunker hill happened. That is a fact. The Earth is hundreds of billions of years old. That is an educated presumption(educated being “educated”, but again, opinions).”

Your kidding right? It is not an educated presumtion or an opinion. It is a scientific theory with a mountain of evidence to support it.

“But that will never happen, so I think I’ll spend the extra money to put my kids through private school if I ever have any.”

Then I guess you will be propagating your ignorance to the next generation.

“Most religion is great when applied to the person. It keeps things in harmony(for that person), often keeps them healthier, and in general, I find(take note, quoting my own experiences) active, honest Christians to be happier and less pessimistic than most Atheists.”

Then your experiences have been very limited. I doubt very much there is any correlation between belief and health & happiness.

“If you want to attack religion, go ahead. But there is nothing lost in life by living by its concepts. “

I don’t attack religion. I just state the facts. I wouldn’t say nothing is lost. It takes a lot of time, energy, and sacrifice to truly follow a religion.

“And you talk about people always trying to convert you? Well, some of us find that we’re extremely happy with it.”

And what makes you think we are not extremely happy without it. It would be rather arrogant for you to think you are more happy simply because of belief in religion.

“In fact, billions. Maybe somebody is just trying to show you their side of things, and why they think its the best? And I admit, more than a few people get enthusiastic about. A bit too enthusiastic…”

This is part of the problem with believers. They think we don’t know their “side of things”. Most non-believers were believers at one time. We know all about it. In fact we know more about it than most believers.

According to statistics which I have read a while ago Religious vs Non Religious deaths were exactly the same. There was NO evidence of religious people been saved by any supernatural forces? (I can not find the link to proof it now, but seeing that you guys believe everything you read and don’t need proof, you won’t have a problem in believing what I just told you)

Telling me, that an atheist is more likely to die of an illness than a religious person is just a sick argument and condemnation!

Then this should be the logical argument to you:

If an atheist get cancer, Aids, raped or murdered – He deserved it (for not believing and not being a child of A god)

If a believer gets cancer or Aids – it is a trial from god

AND

If it seems like god didn’t want to help him (we need to find another reason for this) which would be uuuhhhmmm …..Your time on earth was served … someone needs you in heaven (when all the time, I thought god was all mighty, now it seems like he need someone) Make so much more sense now, doesn’t it!!!

Now, after I have de-converted, I can also understand why so many people suffer from depression. It is only natural to get depressed when you have asked your father in heaven (who seemingly loves you) to heal your body from cancer or aids and to take away the pain, when NOTHING what so ever change afterwards. Would really seem like you have been rejected. Or a small child, praying for something small like “her Daddy to stop beating her Mommy” and it never stops, enough for any normal person to feel rejected and suffer from depression, which in many cases, sadly move into the next phase of suicide :-(

—When you read that, your BSometer should have red lined.—

Take note that the word “Christian” never once appeared in that paragraph. I was stating research that seemed relevant to the topic, and not excluding anyone in the process.

And I am a believer in complete separation of church and state. And slapping the label, “Science”, on something doesn’t make it any less religious. I would love to see a bipartisan school system out there, teaching only what is known as ABSOLUTE fact. The Battle of Bunker hill happened. That is a fact. The Earth is hundreds of billions of years old. That is an educated presumption(educated being “educated”, but again, opinions). But that will never happen, so I think I’ll spend the extra money to put my kids through private school if I ever have any.

Most religion is great when applied to the person. It keeps things in harmony(for that person), often keeps them healthier, and in general, I find(take note, quoting my own experiences) active, honest Christians to be happier and less pessimistic than most Atheists. It is when a government is made religious(not talking about the members of its ruling bodies, but predominately religious in construction, law, and infrastructure), things do tend to go awry, though in the case of most Christian Fundamentalist nations, took a generation or two for the rot to become evident. Fundamental Religion in most forms at one point or the other had been used to rile up other FUNDAMENTALISTS to do violent and terrible things. This has been seen in religions of Indo-European, Judeo, African, Asian, and Native American origins. But then, men who simply lived for living would kill, would they not? It’s in our blood(genes, actually), and people will attempt to do anything to justify their actions. I have seen this with friends and family. My sister has embezzled in things, but despite it, tried to stick with the religion we were raised in. Now, she’s pretty much atheist, and her activities have only grown worse. Not generalizing on anybody, just stating from my experiences. People will do anything to make themselves feel better about what they’re doing. I tried. I honestly did. And once I stopped letting people and worldly pleasures controlling me(as I was very much a slave to them), I found myself healthier and more stable. And I refuse to fall back into that, because I’ve always had this complex about not being controlled by anyone or anything.

If you want to attack religion, go ahead. But there is nothing lost in life by living by its concepts. And you talk about people always trying to convert you? Well, some of us find that we’re extremely happy with it. In fact, billions. Maybe somebody is just trying to show you their side of things, and why they think its the best? And I admit, more than a few people get enthusiastic about. A bit too enthusiastic…

So many of you just blindly believe and spout off anything that you read that suits your view.

Here’s an idea, go back and reread those articles and try to gauge the bias of the writer. The facts are not objective nor are the sources cited and there’s a whole list of other factors that you could argue directly influence what he posted such as political systems, taxation rates, industrial base, etc…

For example, the CEO/hourly worker salary ratio for Sweden (a socialist country) was 13:1 and the US ratio was 475:1. Sorry, but you cant compare the salary discrepancy between a chairman of a pickled herring company and his workers to the Chairman of a multi-billion dollar mega-corperation like General Electric, Disney, Boing, Microsoft, etc…they’re just not the same.

I don’t think that God is out “protecting” his children by eliminating his other children, whom he loves just as dearly as us. We are all given a chance at life, a chance to repent when necessary, and a chance to rejoin him, perhaps even at his side. But one guy put it very well.

“You can repent of something, but any consequences of it are still there. If you go out and catch AIDS, you will still have to deal with AIDS.”

So if I jump off a 100 foot cliff, by chances of surviving are PROBABLY about the same as anyone else in a number of different circumstances. Whether or not I’m atheist, I still did something HORRENDOUSLY stupid, and must deal with the results.

I don’t believe God directs us to do anything, and most events in history are the results of man-made patterns. He may attempt to inspire you or anyone else at vital moments in time(both yours and humanity’s), but life isn’t some massive Dues Ex Machina, nor some pointless play.

And I have found research that says otherwise. Would you like some links? I’ll have to dig them out. My bookmarks folder is quite massive…

I agree there is proof that general health and hapiness can be achieved with belief but it doesnt mean belief in religion. just look at children when its christmas, they believe they will get something from santa, and since they believe santa is real the closer it is to christmas the happier they get…of course the getting something out of it is also another factor, believers of god say they will go to heaven which is a pleasent place, and thus they get something out of it, even though its not real…

Very informative posts thanx Nlocnil, I enjoyed reading it and busy reading the link you’ve provided :-)

Are you asking about deaths caused by believers vs Atheists? Because the invidious comparison some people try to draw - that any death caused by someone not overtly religious is somehow caused by Atheism - is completely invalid.

in a study I read on a site a few days ago it showed that over a third more religious people die of cancer than non religious people.

it also stated that american religious people are more prone to suicide than non religious americans.

religious people are more prone to fighting than non religious people, why? cause if you say something like goddamn it, they call it blasphemy and get angry.

religious people have killed more homosexuals than non religious people.

the KKK is christian, they believe in jesus and god, they dont accept atheists, and yet they are THE KKK.

so yeah religious people die more often…

oh and the site is :

www.Bullshit.com/library/religion/retard.htm

“church people know how to keep them self out of trouble .Because they obey god’s law. “

You’ve obviously never studied history…or current events for that matter.

* There was one study I read about that showed those who believed in a religion that involved an afterlife lived on average about 30% longer than an Atheist or religious person that did not believe in an afterlife.

When you read that, your BSometer should have red lined.

There was one study I read about that showed those who believed in a religion that involved an afterlife lived on average about 30% longer than an Atheist or religious person that did not believe in an afterlife.

That’s probably becasue people who don’t believe in an afterlife tend to be more risky and actually live their lives in a fun wreckless manner becasue they don’t believe they’re going to live again after death so they wanna have as much fun as they can!

I go to church and no one has died for over a year .At my school on kid died of cancer 2 months ago . And he did not belive in god .So I think god is pretecting his childreen .

*At my school on kid died of cancer 2 months ago . And he did not belive in god .So I think god is pretecting his childreen .

so, you believe that if a child does not believe in G-d, G-d will allow him to develop cancer and then kill him?

wow…

you also think that *church people know how to keep them self out of trouble .Because they obey god’s law.

I am amazed that you actually believe this..completely amazed…

by your beliefs, G-d is horrible, just horrible.

Unnatural deaths? like suicide. That’s still natural. But if the question is, do god believers live longer than non-believers, bottom line is yes. BUT is their quality of life better? Not necessarily. So it’s up to you, live a life of pleasure and fun but potentially deadly things like too much alcohol or drugs or saturated fat, yum tastes good, OR live a life of spartan with few excesses no smoking, no drinking, no ‘bad’ foods, no nothing.

I think it’s somewhere inbetween. And even some God believers live long lives and enjoy the finer things. So just do your own thing and keep your blood pressure low. That’s the secret

What does unnatural death mean?

And there is some debate that religious people (I.e. people who attend religious services and what not) tend to be healthier, their immune systems are stronger and what not. I dont think there’s been studies to check what particular aspect of religiosity effects this, and whether the effects are removed if social support is taken into consideration… of course each side of the fence has its debate, it isnt one that has been resolved as yet…

It does to me!!! Because I actually know allot of people and some of them are buried know .Because of drugs alcohol and suicide. And I go to three churches. I also have been to 5 schools and three teaches has passed away and allot more students have passed away .church people know how to keep them self out of trouble .Because they obey god’s law.

Thanks hivetyrant: Do you think this could’ve been explained by a more tendency to suicides/reckless behavior(seeing as society already thinks Athiests are lax with immorality, why not shoot for that)?

And I don’t think if there is a God, he’d be obviously eliminating the Athiests while giving Christians/Catholics immunity or anything, but I thought it would be amusing to see how it weighed out.

No, I mean unnatural death’s, I suppose I should’ve specified.

What are you talking about? Everyone dies… Are you asking if they die younger?