When is a fetus considered a human being?

seao2florida: I do read the postings. When you post something intelligent, I’ll take notice of yours.

It was a point about “popular beliefs”, And what the hell does the starting point of a geometric circle have to do with when life begins?

I accept that human life begins at conception. When do you believe it begins? 2nd trimester, third, when the child is born?

The fact or “belief” that human life begins at the time of conception is not popular. It certainly doesn’t make it wrong. The earth was “flat” at one time. It was the popular belief, but it certainly wasn’t the correct answer. Try again.

Do you consider human life more important than other life on earth?

That depends on the human in question, and what other life I’m comparing it to…

Are we to accept that life doesn’t begin at conception?

Yes you should… because life was there BEFORE conception, but humanity begins at birth…

Are we to accept that life doesn’t begin at conception?

Conception involves the cellular process of meiosis- the replicating of cells. Cells in our bodies also replicate to repair themselves. Are you going to call murder on every cell of epidermis you shed daily?

what right have you offered the fetus??

None… because by law they aren’t considered a human…

Really great Question!! Rhetorical - but what a great question.

tseirpeht AMEN!!! Doesnt matter the “stage” of preg. Its a baby!!! If it isnt a baby, you were never pregnant!!!

Once conception has taken place it is baby. I have seen abortions of all ages of the baby. Trust me they know it and can feel it. That is why MN passed a law stating anytime an abortion is done the baby must be given pain medicine. A good website to visit is www.afa.net

Good Luck.

ok, I kinda lost you on all the long story stuff…our we still on the same question?LOL ‘cause you asked like 3 more and I didn’t even get passed the first one!!!…b-sides, you look like u’ve got the answer down packed 2 me?

According to the BIBLE… no…

(Exodus 21:22)

According to OUR laws… only if he’s TRYING to kill the fetus, or exhibiting hate or malice toward that fetus (by definition). Otherwise, at most it should be involuntary manslaughter (the fetus derivative). However, to willingly abuse a woman physically who is pregnant, is to willingly endanger the fetus, both of which violate the woman’s rights.

And what the hell does the starting point of a geometric circle have to do with when life begins?

As I said before, a circle has no starting point or end… just as life is a continuing cycle.

I accept that human life begins at conception. When do you believe it begins? 2nd trimester, third, when the child is born?

It was already there… in the fetus… …before that, in the zygote… …before that, in the ova and sperm cells… …before that, in the man & woman who produced them… …before that, in the child… …before that, in the baby… …before that, ((repeat))

If you’re asking when I consider life, to be a human BEING… that would be when it draws its first breath: when it no longer requires a host body to oxygenate its blood.

The BELIEF… correct… for once…

And proving the shape of the Earth is in NO WAY similar, or as difficult, as discovering the true starting point of life… within an ongoing cycle of life. Just as its impossible for you to pinpoint the starting point of a perfect (geometric) circle, unless YOU yourself witnessed its creation.

But if you actually think that you take the role of Aristotle or Ferdinand Magellan in this particular debate, then you’ll need to prove your opinions are RIGHT.

Try harder…

“Although many states now have fetal homicide laws, there are a wide variety of differences about when a fetus is considered living. In Missouri and 17 other states, the laws recognize a fetus as living at the time of conception.” From About.com

I just tend to agree with the laws of 18 states. I didn’t realize that many states viewed life to begin with conception.

And lex, try reading the postings. We are discussing human life, not life. No one gives a rotter’s damn about flaking skin cells.

So we have just established that a fetus is no different then an infant.

No… we haven’t…

It is possible for them to survive out side the womb 2 months after conception.

Really? How? In a test tube? That’s not survival… that’s a science experiment. So… what are the qualifications that make a living, breathing organism? Well, it have to be alive… yes… and it has to be breathing too, right? Well… fetuses don’t breathe…

The difference is I am useing a condom to prevent life, that is not killing life.

So… you’re saying that sperm and ova cells aren’t alive?

captainassassin

Because “by law they aren’t considered a human”,

Are we to accept that life doesn’t begin at conception? “The Law” has changed so much just during my lifetime. We continually change our attitudes and acceptance of “The Law”.

We have argued about the ‘right to life’ of an adult human. Would we save a human because they are just that–human. Yes we would.

Yet, would we save a human fetus over that of a bacteria, or a tapeworm? I’d hope so, because it is human.

Human life begins at conception. When a human sperm fertilizes a human egg. it becomes human life. Just as a dog’s sperm fertilizes a dog’s egg. It becomes a dog’s life.

Do you consider human life more important than other life on earth?

I would hope so.

All the information needed for any given person exists before conception as well. It’s only because you think some magic soul thingy gets involved at conception that you give special consideration to a newly fertilized egg that you don’t give to the sperm and egg that went into 1 second prior to fertilization.

Life began long before conception, yet none of us value the sperm and eggs that go into a conceptus.

And to the people who disagree with me I am sorry, but I feel that I had to say that even if it could save one life.
First they came for the jews, I was not jewish so I did not speak. Second they came for the communist, I wasnt communist so I didnt speak. Third they came for the union workers, I wasnt a union worker so I didnt speak. Then they came for me and there was no one to speak for me.

Where the heck were you earlier? People are going to still disagree and that is fine. but enought with the evil answers. about you are wrong and keep your mouth shut and blah blah blah. really nice to hear a males point of view, because in all of this no one even thought about if the dad should have any rights. I feel they should have a say. And it is nice to hear you say that you are takin care of your business. Way to go.

well there are 2 sides of abortion there is pro life they believe that life beging at conception [when sperm meets the egg] and that women should kill the baby they consider it murder

then there is prochoice they believe that a woman has the right to decide what to do with her body but just because you are pro choice that doesnt mean pro abortion they believe that life begins when the baby is able to live outside the womb

So If someone kills the fetus by beating a mother, 9 months pregnant he should not be charged with murder?

I just tend to agree with the laws of 18 states

…instead of the other 32? Okay…

and thats why I love Massachussetts… vote to save the greyhounds and kill our babies…frikn awesome…dopey dems

sikashimmer I appreciate your views. However, I have been a student of nature for over 5 decades. One animal eats another to survive. It will be a parasite or a sucophant of live animals, or kill them to survive.. It literally is an eat or be eaten world.

In your world “if it doesn’t have the potential to be a human life, it is inconsequential”? Yes inconsequential to the life form above it.

Lions eat gazelles. Hyennas steal food and eat living flesh. Elephants and Giraffes eat living plant life. Humans eat wheat a product of a living plant. At what point do we stop considering “life” for our sustenance?

I certainly do not support nor endorse the “torture” nor “abuse” of animals. But I do not belive the human race should not starve to death or die to “preserve” life.

It is a human sperm and a human egg that combine and become human life. We are thinking cognizant human beings with deductive reasoning. I also believe we have a soul that is tied to a life after this world. Terminating the fetus of this life is wrong.

Abortion is obviously acceptable to some, but even if my view is scewed, this crap about it is the “woman’s right to choose” is so egocentric and self centered. What rights do the father have, and those who hold my opiniion, what right have you offered the fetus??

A spider feels pain when we kill them too. The bleach you just poured on the floor murdered tons of bacteria. Cells can get “stressed” which sometimes we interpret as pain because they flinch and squirm.

I just hate how biased everyone is when they talk about “life”. If it doesn’t have the potential to be a human life, it’s inconsequential.

Prevention.

xox Sika

well there are 2 sides of abortion there is pro life they believe that life beging at conception [when sperm meets the egg] and that women should kill the baby they consider it murder

then there is prochoice they believe that a woman has the right to decide what to do with her body but just because you are pro choice that doesnt mean pro abortion they believe that life begins when the baby is able to live outside the womb

“ while the heartbeat bit is true…” so then stopping a beating heart , to me , is taking a life. but as a man I really don’t think I’ll ever need an abortion, so maybe this one should be left to the women to decide…NOTHING else comes close to this issue when and comes to church and state, certain religions will say life begins at conception ( which, even science proves that to me anyway , as soon as a womans body starts to prepare and build another life, there are two beings there, not one.) people of different faiths have different opinions on this subject, so I guess man, posing as lawmakers, has tried to make an even playing field, making the laws the same for everyone concerning abortion in this country where other countries have different laws concerning this…were they wrong to do this? well to some yes, and to others, no…you stated this was YOUR last question concerning this , but this question will be asked forever…

It is considered a living human being once it is viable outside the uterus- that means, breathing, thinking, functioning.

I have seen abortions of all ages of the baby. Trust me they know it and can feel it.

People often argue that has a heartbeat, and apparently has ‘brainwaves’ as little as 40 days after conception, so it’s human, and you therefore, are wrong in terminating. While the heartbeat bit is true, the brainwaves bit is not. That idea came from some research done in the sixties which has since been debunked. The measurement of brainwaves involves using Electroencephalography (EEG), which measures electrical potential over two bipoles (separated charges). In order to do that, the cortex needs to have axons, dendrons, neurons and synapses between. This does not happen until between 20-24 weeks along, way after the first trimester, which is when most terminations are performed. This means any electrical activity in the cortex before then is not ‘thought’, it is random firing in the brain, almost like a test done by the body to make sure construction is going to plan. And because of this revelation, while nerves/pain receptors develop (at the very earliest) at 8 weeks, but without a functioning brain, this is irrelevant, as pain and pleasure cannot distinguish themselves without a functioning cortex. There have been research papers and books published on this, I encourage you all to look them up, particularly one called “Pain and its effects in the human neonate fetus”.

It’s when it is a late term abortion (when the foetus is viable outside the uterus) that terminating is wrong. I agree, that is murder.

but just because you are pro choice, that doesnt mean pro abortion

Very true! It merely means you recognise it’s not your choice to make what happens to another person’s body.

If killing life is the question… we seem to have no problem killing the bacteria on the kitchen counter top, squashing the spider in the shower drain, slaughtering the cow for our beef, shoes etc.

So why then is killing this life so important? Because it is potentially a “human life” ? (yes, we ARE that arrogant of a species.) Then when little Johnny and Katie want to have sex and decide not to… they are killing the “potential” for a human life. Even the act of a man tossing his semen away… it had a potential too.

Adoption is a much better way to go. Sure, 119,000 children are waiting to be adopted in the foster care system alone. Ask your favorite anti-abortion protester if they plan on adopting.

No one would be having this argument if these woman who want an abortion had the proper education to prevent an unwanted pregnancy and the proper resources (finances?) to prevent it.

I don’t think abortion is a very good solution. I’m not against it, nor am I for it. I’m about preventing it in the first place. If people put as much effort into preventing abortion instead of arguing whether it’s wrong or not… we would have A LOT fewer abortions.

xox Sika