God says He is a jealous God???

captainassassin…

Thanks. I too like discussing religious issues, even if I do struggle with the message… which I do. It’s not easy defending something you feel deep down but can’t see or touch. Especially in a secular world. I really do appreciate your honesty and love of debating these kinds of things and I also appreciate the kindness behind your last paragraph.

Take care.

Envy and Jealousy are two DIFFERENT things.

So I guess you didn’t even READ the definitions YOU provided.

jealous adj. – Fearful or wary of being supplanted; apprehensive of losing affection or position. Resentful or bitter in rivalry; ENVIOUS: jealous of the success of others. Inclined to suspect rivalry.Having to do with or arising from feelings of ENVY, apprehension, or bitterness: jealous thoughts.

The definitions support each other… Just as ‘jealousy’ and ‘coveting’ support each other. And as you know, coveting is a sin also…

he killed those people because they are covered in sins

So why isn’t he killing everyone else too? I mean I thought that your god viewed all sins as the same…

Aren’t we all a bit old to have makebelieve friends?

The Toothfairy says He is a jealous Toothfairy.

Come on people!

Captain Assassin…

God hasn’t done anything in the last 6000 years? He did something for me just today. I feel sad for you because you don’t know what real love is.

I assume that you weren’t born with defects or no arms or hands (since you are typing on a keyboard). I would call that a blessing from God. I believe that if you open yourself to the true love of Jesus Christ, that maybe you will be able to see the truth.

You have to wonder why a 100% self sufficient omni-everything spirit being (aka god) has emotions at all.

The reason we have them is to drive our behavior away from things that can kill us, and toward things that promote successful reproduction. A god can neither be killed, nor do gods reproduce.

Our being jealous is different from God. We get jealous because we want to be more important than someone else.

That is no different than the Christian god being jealous of other gods… jealousy is jealousy. Its still a sin, no matter WHO (human or god) is guilty of it.

in the bible it says unless you have a reason for killing (like prisons, they kill criminals) its ok cause theyre making the world a safer place, but those who just kill who are known as murderers and kill for fun or anger are commiting sins.

dont try and justify murder. thats cowardice.

What they mean by god is a jealous god is that he does not want you to believe in other gods.

…yeah… ENVY…

he killed those people because they are covered in sins

…yeah… WRATH… Besides, YOU are covered in sin too. Why hasn’t he killed you? There are millions and millions of non-judeo-christians in the world today, they’re all still alive and sinning.

Our being jealous is different from God. We get jealous because we want to be more important than someone else. We are to care more about the interests of others than ourselves. God did that when Jesus died for our sins. God left Heaven, took on human form (became a man and still God), took the punishment for our sins so we can spend eternity with Him. When we place other people or things before Him, what does it say? He will not take second place; another reason there’s grace.

What they mean by god is a jealous god is that he does not want you to believe in other gods. People say that some religions are fake and believing in other gods is a sin. But honestly its a debate thats been going on for years. Religion is why we are at war. Religion sucks.

God cannot commit a sin.

He is God, he made sins, therefore he can do pretty much whatever he wants.

Killing is a sin, yet he still had Noah build the ark and killed the rest of the world.

God hasn’t sinned he killed those people because they are covered in sins, and my dad says in the that in the bible it says unless you have a reason for killing (like prisons, they kill criminals) its ok cause theyre making the world a safer place, but those who just kill who are known as murderers and kill for fun or anger are commiting sins.

And I dont know about the verses if you can find a later translation it might help you understand a little better.

Matthew 10:16

…yeah… God has sinned…

ENVY… WRATH… and I guess SLOTH too, considering he hasn’t done a damn thing in 6000 years.

oh sh*t come on people god is not real. thats why it doesnt make sense.

and if “god” is real I find it rather distubing that our suppossed creater is such a horrid, self absorbed, greedy, vindictive god.

you people who do believe are all brainwashed.

and these so called miracles and BS its stories made up so weak minded people can have something to hold on to. something to wish upon. ha! how many of you are still waiting for those miracles. dont hold your breath people, because god wont help you

amandagalik…

You are right. We Christians are weak (minded?) people that needs help… that is the whole concept behind our religion. And you are right, we do and have something extremely strong that we hold onto… we are proud of that fact, so your harsh words really mean nothing to me.

(and you thought that you were being insulting and cutting to us Christians)

I found it funny recently when I discovered a verse in the Bible that states… “trust in the Lord with your whole heart, and lean not on your own understanding.” Interesting that he bible uses the word ‘lean’ especially after reading that Jesse Ventura stated in a Playboy interview a couple of years ago that “organized religion is for weak people that need to use it as a crutch to get through life.” Man’s wisdom is not like God’s wisdom and His ways are not our ways (maybe that is why you state above that it just doesn’t make sense). It is not meant that we should how or why He operates. But, as the passage states above, if we place out trust entirely in Him, and do not worry or place our trust in our own understanding, God will never let us down. This doesn’t mean that you always get what you want… but it does promise that He will always give you what you need. He will never let you down unless you continue slamming the door in His face.

I can’t say that I hope God smites you in someway (I would feel bad if something bad would happen to you or your family), however it does sometimes take a ‘wake-up call’ for some people to acknowledge God and His love for you and for His hope to have a personal relationship with you. If something bad does happen to you, I guarantee that you will remember the words in this message and you will doubt your long-standing belief that there is no God.

It’s strange to think of just how many unbelievers probably prayed out to God for help when the Twin Towers fell and they were in the midst of the destruction. Terror and crisis always brings people back to wanting a personal relationship with God. When man is at his lowest, that is when they most want God back in their lives. Natural disasters, victims of crimes, perpetrators of crime (prison convicts), life/death issues, etc. The stories go on and on of people’s lives that were changed by overcoming adversity through Jesus Christ… and of course there are those who will still deny God. But God allows these things to happen to see how we react, through free will. And you thought that non-believers are strong and that believers are weak… I personally think that you have it backwards (although believers are strengthened through Christ). If something does “wake you up” and you find yourself begging for God to help you through, you will then see that it is non-believers that are weak. In fact… we are all weak. Can anyone stop a hurricane? Can anyone add one second to their lives beyond medical limits? Can anyone stop the sun from coming up tomorrow? Or keep it from setting tonight? Can YOU be assured that you will wake up from sleep tomorrow morning?

I know that you don’t believe, and that their are things that just don’t make sense, and as I said above “man’s ways are not God’s ways”. Everyone grapples with questions and their own faith or lack of. But trust me that there is a God and He wants nothing more than to love you. He can only do this if you acknowledge Him and trust in Him… He wants to have a personal relationship with you through Jesus Christ. One day you may be so desperate as to have to “lean on Him” but be assured that He will always be there to catch you if you want.

By the way… captainassassin… thanks for the Matthew 10:16 verse. I had to look it up, but it came as yet another reminder of the Christian faith and the obstacles we must overcome. I am glad that you have as good a knowledge of the Bible as you do. Thanks again for the reminder! It was a help!

If something bad does happen to you, I guarantee that you will remember the words in this message and you will doubt your long-standing belief that there is no God.

Don’t assume that people with no affinity for religious dogma, will place such statements into long-term memory.

It’s strange to think of just how many unbelievers probably prayed out to God for help when the Twin Towers fell and they were in the midst of the destruction. Terror and crisis always brings people back to wanting a personal relationship with God.

That’s deceptive. Any number of people who started believing in God on 9/11, could just as easily be offset by the number of people who lost faith in God, for letting it happen.

captainassassin…

Ah yes, good point about people falling out of faith during tragedy… which happens all of the time. Even I have found myself uncontrollably angry at God at times (I am still growing as a Christian and will continue doing so my whole life).

I guess I tried to address that by stating that “and of course there are those who will still deny God”. That is the beauty of free will and religion in general… it is still a highly personal thing… just one -to-one between you and God or you alone (if your faith is solely in yourself).

And yes, maybe amandagalik will not remember my words, but then again I did plant a small seed there…?

Thanks for your input and allowing me to see another side to the story.

We indeed are all sinners… BUT, because Jesus Christ died on the cross for us, we arent being killed.

That doesn’t add up. To suggest God would just KILL anyone who sinned, would mean he’d have to kill EVERYONE. Then there’d be no one around for Jesus to sacrifice himself for.

God realized he was handling things the WRONG way (WRATH, ENVY, etc.), so he started doing things differently (Jesus). He made mistakes, and argueably found a solution. But he was still sinning before that, envy and wrath are sins God was committing before Jesus came along.

amandagalik…

I know exactly where you are coming from in that you think all is alright in your life due only to your decisions and effort. I sometimes think that all I have is due only to my efforts and hard work, and that is correct… if I don’t work, I don’t get to pay my mortgage, put food on the table, etc.

I have a long-time friend that owned his own company (a healthcare company which did extremely well) and over time he became very arrogant and boisterous. Everything he had was due to his ‘correct’ decisions and his schooling, his control, etc. etc. His sisters, he stated always made the worst decisions, didn’t further their schooling, married the wrong man, etc. etc. and that is why he was so much better off than them. He also ‘cut-down’ my sister, stating that she always made bad decisions in men, and other poor decisions (which quite frankly were out of her control).

At the time, about five years ago, I stated to him, that he could lose everything, just as quickly as it takes for a person to slip on the sidewalk outside of his business, or for other reasons that may be out of his control. However, he stated that he was in total control and that nothing could take it from him. He was riding high in life.

Fast forward several years… His company just filed bankruptcy (owing me over $1200 in the process although I have never mentioned it to him), is being sued for over 1.3 million dollars and he is now an alcoholic, is suffering severe manic depression, is in the process of losing his wife (after his infidelity), has lost his family (with whom he no longer speaks), and is completely miserable. We were out at a bar one night, and he mentioned that he didn’t even believe in God anymore (he was a believer before all of this happened). See it is easy to believe in God when things are going great in your life, but it takes a real tried and true believer to have faith in God even when things can’t get much worse.

This is just one example and I realize that most people probably does not sink to this level. However, it is one example with which I can relate and talk about first hand.

A story in the Bible does talk about severe obstacles which Job had to succumb to and overcome but in the end his faith was renewed and invigorated due to the events. He lost literally everything in a short period of time. You have to ask yourself what you would do if you were to lose your spouse and your children (accident or divorce), and then shortly after you lose your job (company layoff or fired). Of course, because you are then not employed, you then you lose your home and possessions (due to foreclosure or maybe a fire destroys everything you have), your family turns their back on you. You wind up feeling alone with no one to count on or no one that you can turn to. And worst of all, all of these events you encountered you had absolutely no control over.

I hope that nothing like this happens to you (as it did my friend). I hope that you have a peaceful life. But as I told my friend… everything can be taken away easily and quickly and that pride comes before a fall. It ended up happening to him to the point that he fell out of touch with God (much like captainassassin mentioned above… thanks for reminding me of this story of my friend’s life and how it accurately expresses what I am trying to convey here).

Anyways, I hope that all does go well in your life. However, I also hope that I made you realize the fragile nature of life, our loved ones, of our possessions and out time. Most of all, that there is someone that you can always count on and He will never let you down.

You didn’t offend me (too much) and I am glad to hear your thoughts. Thanks for sharing!

captainassassin…

Sorry for touching a nerve. I was only trying to help someone (moe214) with an honest answer to a very good question.

You say that God is sinning… then maybe you ARE admitting that there is a God you may have to answer to? You are very correct… many people have lived very fulfilling lives on earth in spite of an intimate knowledge of Jesus Christ. And that would be great, however the key words here are ‘on earth’… to the believer, this world is only a material, temporary residence. And of course, you also need to define your term ‘fulfilling’… Money, Love, Harmony, Material Wealth, Family? I know of a great many people who ‘have everything’ and yet they can be some of the most miserable and unhappy people around.

You sound like a very smart person, so I am really looking forward to hearing your definition of a ‘fulfilling life’. Take care.

captainassassin…

If you’re going to LIE and be deceitful

Not sure where you read into what I was saying was a lie or deceitful (after all, you said it all and were correct in saying that neither can be proven or disproven). Other than that, your emotions seem to be conveying that you are angry?

Also, you are right… I don’t know what your beliefs are. What does the atheist believe in other than the self? Please share.

Finally you are right… one day we will each find out the truth. If you are right and I am wrong, then I have lost nothing but a little bit of time promoting a belief that has been in existence for thousands of years and is the majority religion throughout the world (over 33 percent in the mid 90’s compared to 4.4 percent for atheists).

… CaptainAssassin… …yeah… WRATH… Besides, YOU are covered in sin too. Why hasn’t he killed you? There are millions and millions of non-judeo-christians in the world today, they’re all still alive and sinning. We indeed are all sinners… BUT, because Jesus Christ died on the cross for us, we arent being killed. =o] thats why we are still alive. and if we repent, and we believe in Him, then we are saved. =] oh yeah, and please do not take this offensively–im just trying to protect what I believe in. =]

Envy and Jealousy are two DIFFERENT things.

en·vy (en’ve) n., pl. -vies.

A feeling of discontent and resentment aroused by and in conjunction with desire for the possessions or qualities of another.

The object of such feeling: Their new pool made them the envy of their neighbors.

jeal·ous·y (jel’?-se) n., pl. -ies.

A jealous attitude or disposition. Close vigilance.

jealous adj.

Fearful or wary of being supplanted; apprehensive of losing affection or position.

Resentful or bitter in rivalry; envious: jealous of the success of others. Inclined to suspect rivalry.

Having to do with or arising from feelings of envy, apprehension, or bitterness: jealous thoughts.

Vigilant in guarding something: We are jealous of our good name. Intolerant of disloyalty or infidelity; autocratic: a jealous God.

        Simply a Rose to brighten your day,         And maybe lessen the cares in your way;         And also, too, to help you to know,         That in knowing you, many others grow!

I believe all that needed to be said from both parties has been said, for now, and I appreciate your insight. until we meet again

He did something for me just today.

…prove that God did it… otherwise, you are just subjectively attributing positive experiences in you life to God, which is pointless.

I feel sad for you because you don’t know what real love is.

Oh how cliche, its hilarious how overused the ‘real love’ argument is used… such arrogance. Don’t discount other people’s experiences with emotion, just because they don’t coincide with YOURS. Just because YOUR life sucks without religion, doesn’t mean its the same for the rest of the world.

I would call that a blessing from God.

I call it ‘normal.’ …a mindset that God is blessing you when nothing bad is happening, is pure delusion.

I believe that if you open yourself to the true love of Jesus Christ, that maybe you will be able to see the truth.

Its not the truth, its only your BELIEFS. Deal with it.

The fact that God is a jealous God has to do with His love for us…

…irrelevant… it doesn’t matter WHY he’s sinning… he’s STILL sinning…

Placing your faith in anything other than Jesus Christ and what he did for YOU will lead to nothing but heartache…

Bullsh*t… there have been COUNTLESS people around the world, who have led fullfilling lives WITHOUT Christianity… so stop generalizing, and definitely stop LYING… sinner…

captainassassin…

Sorry for touching a nerve. I was only trying to help someone (moe214) with an honest answer to a very good question.

Calling me a sinner doesn’t hurt my feelings as I realize that I am and that I need help. That is where my faith in my God and Jesus Christ allows me to be comforted.

By the way, you say that God is sinning… then maybe you ARE admitting that there is a God you may have to answer to? You are very correct… many people have lived very fulfilling lives on earth in spite of an intimate knowledge of Jesus Christ. And that would be great, however the key words here are ‘on earth’… to the believer of an afterlife, this world is only a material, temporary residence. And of course, you also need to define your term ‘fulfilling’… Money, Love, Harmony, Material Wealth, Family? I know of a great many people who ‘have everything’ and yet they can be some of the most miserable and unhappy people around.

You sound like a very intelligent person, so I am really looking forward to hearing your definition of a ‘fulfilling life’. Take care.

Not sure where you read into what I was saying was a lie or deceitful

You said those who believe in anything other than Christianity, will lead to nothing but heartache. This is a LIE, and is deceitful because:

1. You are stating your beliefs as if they are facts, which is wrong by default.
2. You are generalizing, which is wrong by default.

Also, you are right… I don’t know what your beliefs are. What does the atheist believe in other than the self? Please share.

I’m not Atheist… how very cliche-Christian of you to assume…

If you are right and I am wrong, then I have lost nothing but a little bit of time promoting a belief that has been in existence for thousands of years and is the majority religion throughout the world (over 33 percent in the mid 90’s compared to 4.4 percent for atheists).

WRONG AGAIN.

1. Let’s see… 2009… Jesus’s birth… 0-ish… Jesus’s death… 33-ish. So, 2009 minus 33… 1976. Sorry, you can’t quite call it thousandS of years yet. Judaism can… but Christianity isn’t old enough.
2. Its not Christians vs. Atheists, its Christians vs. NON-Christians. In which Christians are STILL the minority.
3. You don’t know what would happen if I’m right, because you STILL don’t know what my beliefs are.
4. There are plenty of OTHER religions that could be right, if Christianity is wrong. What happens to you THEN?

My religion does teach, however that no man can come to the Father but through Christ and I stand firmly behind that teaching.

That concept is flawed also…

you were not taking into account the entire old testament, as well as the new.

That’s because The Old Testament (a.k.a. the Tanakh, a.k.a. the Hebrew Bible) belongs to JUDAISM. Christianity didn’t even exist until CHRIST existed.

Yes, you are right. Christians in comparison to all of the other religions are a minority if they were to all ‘gang up’… however, read and you will find out that Christianity does have more followers than any of the other religions in the world, so this was not a false statement.

Your statement called it the ‘majority religion’ …this is NOT the same as saying it has the most members. Even if all the Christian denominations were to ‘gang up’ …Christianity would STILL be the minority in the global population. But Christians AREN’T united to begin with. With 30,000+ denominations under its belt and STILL rising. Each claiming THEIR version of Christianity is the right one. Christianity remains scattered and divided. Its funny how one ‘’perfect’’ book (and its several versions) and one ‘’perfect’’ God (who is actually three, but is one, but has three parts, that talk to each other) can be so open to interpretation.

but because you can’t prove a single word that you say and neither can I…

Actually my beliefs CAN and HAVE been proven, they encompass humanity’s INABILITY to prove or disprove the existence of God, god(s), deities, etc.

But I still hope that one day your eyes will be opened to the possibility that there is a God out there that loves you.

Once again, I’m NOT Atheist, and I have NEVER rejected the possibility of God existing… you STILL aren’t paying attention.

If you were paying attention, you would not have assumed I was atheist to begin with. You also would not have compared the percentage of Christians in the global population, to the number of atheists.

Since you’ve apparently decided to ‘give up’ on the more relevant issues. And seem more interested in demanding a direct one-word answer from the source; when your very beliefs regarding the issues we’ve discussed, revolve around the aspect of ‘’believing, not knowing’’ and ‘’drawing conclusions’’ I see no reason to provide you with an answer, especially when it is now so very obvious.

Maybe you should ask God for the answer, but be careful not to confuse his ‘truth’ with your own opinions and biases… that happens WAY too often… n___n

You don’t have to leave me alone, either. Religious discussion is one of my favorite things to do on this site. I can tell you mean well, but as with most Christians; you struggle with the message, and your duty to pass it on to others.

oh ok so you take pride in blindly believeing in something. ha.

and no I am not sure that I will wake up in the morning but thats the circle of life. its going to happen sooner or later and while I have time on this earth I plan on living it the way I want and making the most out of it. I dont think god deserves praise for my familys good fortunes. my husband works and provides for us. we have made the life we have what it is. I dont have to thank some power hungry god for the food on my table and the air in my lungs.

and as for those last minute believers…

maybe its the promise that your precious bible portrays about how god forgives all who repent and believe no matter what the past sins are. that is why they in time of crisis turn to god because they want some miracle when they have gone their whole life not believing.

and dont worry, I determine my future. If my life hits a snag then its up to myself and my family to pick ourselves up.

I too find it odd how convited felons who are in prison for life or years to come for taking the life of another or whatever the crime may be and has no future ahead of them, suddenly find god in hopes of being forgiven.

and I could care less about offending you or any other christians, I am purely stating the way I feel and its just too bad you cant handle it.

captainassassin…

If I stated that if you believe in anything but Christianity you are doomed to heartache, I was wrong. It is not necessarily so. Just like being a Christian doesn’t make a life easy (look at Job, for instance). So if I mislead any fellow readers out there, I apologize. My religion does teach, however that no man can come to the Father but through Christ and I stand firmly behind that teaching. Unfortunately neither of us can prove or disprove, so lets just leave it at that and eventually we will find out firsthand.

When I stated that ‘thousands of years’ and you stated it was only 1976, you were not taking into account the entire old testament, as well as the new. Both had the common theme of a Savior (old testament, future tense… new testament, present tense). So in that case, the story of Jesus definitely goes beyond thousands of years.

Yes, you are right. Christians in comparison to all of the other religions are a minority if they were to all ‘gang up’… however, read and you will find out that Christianity does have more followers than any of the other religions in the world, so this was not a false statement.

And yes, you are correct that there are lots of other religions that one can choose from. I was fortunate enough to be brought up in a loving Christian environment and through the years, even after researching and looking for answers to all of my questions, still feel fortunate to have a relationship with Jesus Christ. And never forget that I didn’t have to go looking for Him (like all of the other religions)… He found me.

Oh, and by the way… you still haven’t answered my question as to what it is you believe. I will ask again… please share. If you are not an atheist, what is it you believe? Are you agnostic? A deist? A humanist? A polytheist? I am interested in finding out where your concepts and beliefs are coming from.

This will be the last time I respond to this particular question, not because I feel defeated, but because you can’t prove a single word that you say and neither can I, so it is pointless to proceed with this conversation. But I still hope that one day your eyes will be opened to the possibility that there is a God out there that loves you.

Take care.

The knowledge of man and the knowledge that God has are not even in the same ballpark. Man’s knowledge can never know why God works the way He does. The bible thoroughly states this throughout.

The term everyone is using up to this point… ‘killing’ is not quite right. Yes, God did take almost all of mankind at one point because the world was so evil (makes you wonder where we stand in comparison nowadays). He promised mankind that He never to do it again, after the deluge.

The fact that God is a jealous God has to do with His love for us… not vengeance. He knows that if you make anything else more important in your life, that you will be doomed to misery and self destruction. This not only includes other deities, but everyday objects as well. Think about the biblical story of the man that came to Jesus asking what he needed to do to be saved. Jesus asked him if he had ever sinned. The man stated ‘no, I have never sinned’. Now Jesus knew that the man had, but instead of calling him a liar, he simply instructed the man to sell everything he had, and follow Him. The man went away grieving because he was rich and didn’t want to give up his possessions.

By doing so he broke the first commandment… no other gods! He actually made money (or mammon, in the bible) his god and placed it before the God in heaven.

A very powerful statement about man 2,000 years ago as well as today.

Placing your faith in anything other than Jesus Christ and what he did for YOU will lead to nothing but heartache and this is not what God wants for you. He loves you and wants a personal relationship with you and he wants nothing to be placed in between that fellowship.

Sorry for touching a nerve.

You didn’t… you’re just being predictable…

Calling me a sinner doesn’t hurt my feelings as I realize that I am and that I need help.

Of course you missed the point. If you’re going to LIE and be deceitful, you are doing nothing but misrepresenting God and what is means to be Christian.

You say that God is sinning… then maybe you ARE admitting that there is a God you may have to answer to?

I’m admitting nothing, other than Christianity being contradictory… and you are unable to nullify this. Making suggestions about my beliefs, when you have NO IDEA what they are to begin with; is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to sidestep the issue at hand.

1. I don’t define fulfillment with material wealth.
2. key words ‘’on earth’’ implies an afterlife, something you cannot prove exists.
3. My definition of fulfillment does NOT require acceptance of Christian doctrines, something YOU obviously DO require. So its pointless for me to elaborate on fulfillment. No matter what I tell you, the absense of Christianity in a person’s life will equate to unhappiness or UNfulfillment in your mind… which is sheer ignorance.

There are definitely many different interpretations of God’s jealousy spoke of in the Old Testament of the Bible and whether or not you are a christian do not mistake God’s jealousy as sin.

Think about his jealous in this context. We are God’s children, created in his likeness. Similar to when we have children. When you create a child and spend years raising and guiding that child, you would be jealous if one day that Child decided that another person is his/her parent and you no longer exist. (this is mostly likely true whether you believe in God or not)

would that jealously be a sin. It would take a great stretch of God’s teaching to say “Yes”.

We are all God’s children and we should show him the respect he deserves and has earned. If anyone believes he has not sacrificed for us then try this someday, allow your own Child to be served the death penalty for another man’s crime. Do not do it to prove a point but to pay for what the other man has done. Because that is what God did for us.

I would encourage people to carefully read and understand the context of bible passages. Do not attempt to read a single passage and interpret it on face value. you will miss the context of what is being taught.

remember the bible was written for people of a completely different culture. You need to understand the culture to understand the context.

I hope this is helpful to all people, christian or not.