does anyone have a good reason why gays should not be married ??

Wow. All four of those remind me of a time period we’re living in.

But 1500 out of billions of the Terra species is not really enough to call it quote quote “natural”.

That’s not much of an argument. A certain trait or type of behavior doesn’t need a majority of species doing it to be called natural. There are all kinds of behaviors that only a few hundred species engage in, but are nonetheless natural for those species within their habitats. Natural simply means “existing in, or formed by, nature”.

For these 1500 + species, homosexual behavior is obviously a natural behavior. Or do you feel these species are making a conscious choice to go against the grain of nature and God’s universe when they do this?

lol, do you care to define “marriage”, as it is a relatively new concept in the history of humans (unless ofcourse you think the earth is only a few thousand years old, and if you do, uhm honestly I dont want to be discussing any subject with you).

as for 1500 species doing something not enough to be called natural, well marriage is something only one species does, a lot of human activities are solely human activities, since we’re reducing what is “natural” to the amount of species that do it, I suppose humans in general are compeletely unnatural

And if ANYONE is going to quote from the Bible, please use the original or KinG James translations, as the new international version leaves out entire verses, and as incorrect as the KJV is, the NIV is simply a reinterpretated versionof it. The less interpretations, the better.

Actually, the NIV and NASV versions are derived from transcripts that PRE-DATE the KJV transcripts by 600 years. So, maybe those verses you mentioned were left out, because they were never really in the ‘original’ to begin with…

mandyloo, I’m not sure what whoever said that was trying to say, but I took it to mean that he/she doesn’t liked PDA from anyone in public, including straight couples, and I don’t think they were saying that only gays/lesbians shouldn’t be allowed to express their affection in public. But that’s just how I interpretted it.

What does the fact that animals aren’t gay have anything to do with basic human rights? Really all this is, is ridiculous and pointless discrimination. People are afraid of what they don’t understand, and people can’t seem to get in through their heads that you love who you love because of who they are, not what body parts they have. If you don’t approve of gay marriage, WHO CARES. Just don’t get one! It doesn’t affect you in any way, except for making you uncomfortable. Preventing gays from getting married isn’t going to stop people form being gay- its not a choice you make, despite what many of the homophobs I’ve talked to think.

Well, funny thing about infertile partners is, that they generally don’t know that one or the other is infertile UNTIL after they’re married. But they obviously had the responsibilites to make such a commitment should children result.

And I don’t think the ratio of dysfunctional families changes with sexual preference. And what many call “dysfunctional” can often be a thing of opinion. I have made the in ward comment “dysfunctional” before, and simply found it was different, as one of the families turned out to be better along the lines of personal relationships with each other than mine is.

http://mindprod.com/feedback/godgayischoice.html http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/comingoutadvice/f/Choice.htm http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/gay-by-choice.html

here are some site you can go to since your to lazy to look it up it is provent google it

I personitly dont care about it, you gay, ok good for ya, but yea, heres some bible verses.

Oh, let’s not open up THIS can of worms again :)

There IS no good reason why they can’t get married. People often claim that God says that its evil, but not everyone believes in God, and there is seperation of the church and state, so why can’t they just get married by a judge and not a priest? Others say that they can’t procreate, so they shouldn’t be able to get married because its not benefiting society at all. But by that logic, a male and a female who don’t plan on having children shouldn’t be allowed to marry, either. One COULD argue that at least males and females have the capability to have children, but what about someone who’s infertile? Are they not allowed to get married, either? That’s why there is adoption, or artificial insemination. And its illegal to discriminate by sexual orientation in adoption agencies. It is ridiculous to me that the reason most people are against gay marriage is religion because, GUESS WHAT! In the US, we have freedom of religion- why should someone be denied a right to accommodate someone else’s religion? That doesn’t make any sense.

Look, I’m simply trying to find you reasons other than religious of why I don’t think homosexuals should have a right to marry.

The problem is, these reasons don’t hold up upon further examination. If you wish to persist in the belief that homosexuality is unnatural, no one can stop you. But refusing to change your mind or reconsider your views in the face of overwhelming evidence is not a good habit. I should point out to you that, many years ago, when I was a Christian, I also opposed gay marriage and saw homosexuality as a sin. I changed my mind when I realized I had absolutely no good reason to think as I did, and that I simply thought that way because of ancient prejudices and, those of people around me.

But I believe marriage is reserved for two heterosexual mates who form a unity in order to raise a family of children born through them into this world.

I refer to my previous argument. Bearing children is not a legitimate basis for determining who can and cannot marry. The whole practice of adoption goes out the window, if that’s the case. Now raising children is another matter. And there’s really no reason why two homosexuals can’t adopt and raise a child, if two heterosexual couples do the same thing. And no reason why they can’t do so as a married couple. They, too, are “still a family”.

That’s why I do my best to find supplementery materials for contrast(Dead Sea Scrolls, anyone?), and study on my own.

Then you should try translating directly from Hebrew, Greek or Latin, to English… to eliminate the middleman.

But then again, how valid would THEY be? Since originally, scriptures were presented ORALLY, in Hebrew, Aramaic, etc. So you can wonder what was lost or added during the original transcriptions. As for modern times, its not as easy for people to transcribe biblical texts the way the ‘want’ it to be understood. The religious world isn’t wrapped in illiteracy and fear of death, as it was centuries ago. And people aren’t so willing to avert their eyes in the presence of corruption.

And as I said before, the NIV and NASV are derived from transcripts that pre-date the KJV by 600 years. AND these transcripts are also available to the public.

And I stand corrected. But 1500 out of billions of the Terra species is not really enough to call it quote quote “natural”.

…and too many to call it ‘unnatural’

“On my final notes, I don’t think as many people would have a problem with homosexuals if they weren’t so open about it. I mean, I generally don’t ever make mention of my sexual preference in common everyday conversation. I don’t act any differently in public(figuratively speaking) than any other normal person. In fact, me personally, I think excessive public displays of affection are inappropriate. A handshake, a short hug, maybe a quick peck between two partners, could be considered appropriate. But long, prolonged kissing, ect, no. It’s inappropriate.”

This whole paragraph was so wrong and so ignorant. Not every gay couple feels the need to express their love in public or have long drawn out kissing sessions in front of people. I have rarely seen this happen to be honest. Also, there are straight couple’s that do way more than that in public. Most gay people do not bring up in every day conversation that they are homosexual. I can’t remember the last time I’ve had to say out loud that I am a bisexual woman actually. I may say it on here - but only when I’m proving a point or am in an argument and asked why I care. I dont run around screaming it from rooftops. Even if they did - so what? Like I’ve said a million times they have the right to do everything that a straight couple has the right to do. We are not lesser of people, and if your bothered by gay marriage and gay relationships - simple don’t be in one.

Look, I’m simply trying to find you reasons other than religious of why I don’t think homosexuals should have a right to marry.

I generally do not associate with open homosexuals(I don’t mind the ones who you would never be able to tell), and I do not support homosexualism, as I believe it to be unnatural, but I will not try to force my ideals on them. At the same time, I don’t want them or their advocates to be forcing their ideals on me. If they want some sort of legalized unity, call it something else. “Domestic Partnership” I think some states call it.

But I believe marriage is reserved for two heterosexual mates who form a unity in order to raise a family of children born through them into this world. And if they turn out to be infertile, well, the two of them still make up a family.

Family, now, I will admit, IS a subjective term, and has many forms. If you wish to use it for a homosexual unity, then do so, as a group of friends can be considered “family”, or a workplace, ect.

And I think we’re getting way off topic with which translation of the Bible is most correct. It was pointless of me to bring that up earlier. I simply don’t think that servant and slave are interchangible terms, one of many grievances I have against NIV, along with the fact that parts in the KJV that can be interpretted many ways(some of which I believe have multiple meanings to begin with) are given in a single man’s interpretation. And, as mentioned before, they leave parts out, some of which I feel are at certain sect’s convenience.

I personitly dont care about it, you gay, ok good for ya, but yea, heres some bible verses.

Leviticus 18:22 (Whole Chapter) “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.

Leviticus 20:13 (Whole Chapter) “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (Whole Chapter) Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,

1 Timothy 1:10 (Whole Chapter) The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, [ Or kidnappers.] liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching

…Jesus offers forgiveness for all of our sins.

How aboutthe majority of you stop using “God” as an excuse to justify your selfish and pointless belief. I dont even believe in god so most of you just wasted your time.. AND I dont understand how you can be against it when IT DOESNT HURT YOU!! two dudes arent gonna randomly show up at your house and be like “hey im gay accept it and come to my wedding” …seriously!!! what other people do with their life has NOTHING to do with you in any way, shape or form so I dont understand how one can possibly have a problem with it. Im not for gay marriage and im not against it. im not gay I dont know anyone who is gay I have nothing to do with it.. NO ONE is forcing me to try and be gay or accept it or not accpept it. I have no problem with it and I dont get how someone else could and if I did know someone gay who wanted to get married well that its fine with me. why should it be any different than a man and a woman marrying..love is love.

lol. kingofpop I love your answers

Let me see..how can I put this

What is worse. Daddy beating mommy and children resulting from that turning into mismanaged and mishapen adults or two loving homosexuals raising a child into a capable adult with an open mind.

Also (I do believe in God),shouldn’t we then not allow a woman’s whose husband is beating and raping her not to divorce because divorce is a sin in the eyes of God, or what about someone who murders in self defense after all God doesn’t say in the bible that is ok, he just says murder is wrong..

If you love someone it should be your choice to live a happy and long life with them and have all the benefits of being married if that is your wish. I personally do not believe in marriage at all, to me signing a contract means nothing about your feelings to the person, however it does give certain benefits such as what you get after they died.

Something happened to two gay people that I know of recently, they lived together in a stable relationship for approximately 20 years and then the one suddenly died and everything they worked TOGETHER for went to a family that didn’t love them in the first place. Pretty unfair if you ask me.

Oh and on a final note for all you so called Christians out there, stop forcing our religion and beliefs down other’s throats. God says spread his word not beat someone silly with it.

Oh yes and I forgot to add remember that next time when someone beats you to death to turn the other cheek.

Marriage is for the protection of the children, and you can take a look at just about every ancient culture, and find some sort of marriage ritual, always between a man and woman. Marriage is a commitment between to partners in order to provide any children that result from the relationship get their needs and hopefully a stable environment.

And you can see today what happens when generations of children are neglected. They follow after their parents, and it becomes a never ending cycle.

And if ANYONE is going to quote from the Bible, please use the original or KinG James translations, as the new international version leaves out entire verses, and as incorrect as the KJV is, the NIV is simply a reinterpretated versionof it. The less interpretations, the better.

what about the athius people who just dont care about the bible or god truthfully why would it hurt and does it effect you what does it do to you??? you just go sayng god and the bible because you cannot come up with a reason I mean seriouly we already have gays and couple so why not legalize it theres nothing wrong with it ???

Your right - it will get nowhere because you have NOTHING to bring to the table except, hate, lies, and ignorance.

Peace.

In most states, yes. Not all. But the point I think being made was that producing children is the basis for marriage as an institution. The counterpoint is, production of children is not a consistent, or legitimate, basis for determining who gets to marry and who does not.

http://mindprod.com/feedback/godgayischoice.html http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/comingoutadvice/f/Choice.htm http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/gay-by-choice.html

here are some site you can go to since your to lazy to look it up it is provent google it

Keep your ignornat opinions to yourself.

Gay people can adopt, have a surrogate mother, or artificial insimination.

It amazes me how someone who claims to be so religious and follows the word of God - can be so mean and hateful. Talk about a hypocrite.

and the whole constiution was started under religion. look at the the money “ IN God We Trust”, read up on history and ya see religion was a big part of it.

I not tring to be a jerk about it, im just throwing out facts, so no offence to anybody.

Yes, in the past. The world is a different place, even if it was started under religion - there is also seperation of church and state - which people love to forget about. Churches and Religion are not supposed to affect laws and the government. Period.

I think It’s really just a matter of time. Gay marriage will eventually be legal in the United States, as the country continues its trend toward Europe-esque secularism. Sadly, that progress will probably be much slower than it should be.

There is no good reason as to why Gays should not be allowed to marry - period.

I dont want to hear a religious answer - because it’s supposed to be sepertation of church and state - and marriage is not a religious contract it’s a government contract now. Also, I dont see why it’s any of anyone else’s business if two people love each other and want to get married.

If you dont like gay marriages - simple, don’t get one.

I would like to point out that in the natural world, the only group that seems to even consider homosexual actions are mammals. And outside of homosapiens, that is EXTREMELY rare.

False. Homosexual behavior has been observed in about 1500 species, and is well documented in 500 so far (Bruce Bagemihl, Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity, St. Martin’s Press, 1999; ISBN 0312192398). This includes several species of bird and insect. It is estimated that around 25% of black swan relationships, for example, are homosexual pairings, with the occasional three some (Goudarzi, Sara (16 November 2006). “Gay animals out of the closet? MSNBC. Retrieved on 2007-09-12.).

Homosexuality is perfectly natural. To say otherwise is the height of ignorance.

I really dont know why you kristy would think that is houmorus because Its not your only thinking of yourself becuase your only allowing what you think and they adopt kids trust me I know I have two moms and there my best friends ever before I lived in a place with both and mom and dad and mom was a druggi and dad would beat me so they put me in foster and I had two of the best girls in the world adopt me and they saved me from all the hurt so I want to give back and put it out everywere that we should be allowed to do as we please its not hurting anyone and I think it stupid when people are against it

Yea I know so why not just give rights to everyone are you straight or not ??? and they are just affraid because that it is someone different just like when it all started that wemons rights were limited then it when from that to jews then to blacks and gays hopefully they will just pas the damn law and mind there own business if people do not like it because it does not effect them

how can gay people have kids 2gether? and I dont think they should…not being mean or anything man I hope gays can get married 100yrs from now because that means I probably wont b here lo

Such responses further demonstrate why there is no logical reason to oppose gay marriage…only fear, bigotry, and personal discomfort. The anti-gay Bible thumpers and homophobes will do their own cause in merely by expressing their views. And in so doing, will hopefully make it easier to persuade more moderate minds that such extremist positions have no place in law and politics.

Marriage is a commitment between to partners in order to provide any children that result from the relationship get their needs and hopefully a stable environment.

If the basis for allowing marriage is that the couple exist in order to provide children and provide for children, then infertile couples should also be banned from getting married. Furthermore, given how many dysfunctional heterosexual families there are out there, to deny a loving gay couple the right to adopt and raise children is imbecilic.

strictly from nature’s perspective, I think it’s a bad thing to “support” homosexuality. if you set aside all other emotions… nature designed us to be heterosexual, and union between opposite sex is the only way we can reproduce and keep the human race populated. that is all we are here to do – to survive and to grow. homosexuality kinda works against it, no? I’m not saying we need more population on this planet… but strictly objective perspective :-)

You interpretted correctly. I think if everyone all had a little common sense and restraint, we wouldn’t be having this argument. Unfortunately, my common sense another person might call ignorance, and vice versa, so shoot me now.

And I stand corrected. But 1500 out of billions of the Terra species is not really enough to call it quote quote “natural”.

“Marriage is for the protection of the children, and you can take a look at just about every ancient culture, and find some sort of marriage ritual, always between a man and woman. Marriage is a commitment between to partners in order to provide any children that result from the relationship get their needs and hopefully a stable environment. “

wrong… obviously you’ve never studied your history. Homosexual relationships (including some sort of marriage) dates back a long time, native americans used to have acceptable relationships between same-sex couples. As for homosexual acts only being in mammals, I havent done the research, but even if that was true, what’s your point?

I would like to point out that in the natural world, the only group that seems to even consider homosexual actions are mammals. And outside of homosapiens, that is EXTREMELY rare.

There are only a few thousand species out of millions where there is an ocassional homosexual individual, and you’re not likely to run into one unless you’re looking for one for days and weeks on end.

It will come in time - I just think it’s sad that it’s the year 2009 and homosexuals still don’t have the same rights as everyone else.

This subject really hits home with me - because I’m a bisexual woman. I am with a man currently, but I have been with more women than I have men, and it’s ridiculous to think that we could love each other, live together, have a child together - but we could not get married.

But they obviously had the responsibilites to make such a commitment should children result.

And many gay couples are willing to make the same commitment in order to raise children.

And I don’t think the ratio of dysfunctional families changes with sexual preference.

Divorce rates in this country among heterosexual couples are shockingly high. Domestic abuse is certainly has high as it’s ever been. There is no reason to believe heterosexual couples preserve the sanctity of marriage any more than homosexual couples.

they should be aloud its perfectly normal

I agree but they do let gays adopt

So, maybe those verses you mentioned were left out, because they were never really in the ‘original’ to begin with…

Sorry man, but the later we go in the timeline, the more corrupt things become. The original Bible’s produced by the early Roman Catholic church were as biased and convenient as it got. Even the King James Version, I will admit, can also be pretty convenient for many to easily twist the words around. That’s why I do my best to find supplementery materials for contrast(Dead Sea Scrolls, anyone?), and study on my own.

But I do not trust any translations made by men(or women) today to be accurate, as everyone these days is out for prestige and power. Even more so than during the Rennasaince and Colonial Eras. Most of your preachers and pastors will say anything to gain favor with the popular masses. I think this can be applied to any of their writings, also.

wrong… obviously you’ve never studied your history. Homosexual relationships (including some sort of marriage) dates back a long time, native americans used to have acceptable relationships between same-sex couples. As for homosexual acts only being in mammals, I havent done the research, but even if that was true, what’s your point?

Homosexual RELATIONS are exactly what they were. Not homosexual MARRIAGES, but homosexual RElATIONSHIPS. I don’t believe that it was actually called a marriage in the language. Maybe a unity, but not a marriage.

As for the animal part, isn’t that all we are? I mean, just like a dog or a cat(monkey would probably be the best metaphor), we have four appendages that we use to navigate our surroundings. Just like a horse, we have a complex system of blood vessels, immune systems, and skeletal and muscle structures. Just like every other mammal, we have boy parts and girl parts, and give birth to children through a birth canal, which is painful for the mother and offspring, no matter the species(excluding the platypus, they lay eggs). Just like every other mammal, or at least, originally, the females breast feed their children with milk produced inside their own bodies. Except for a more developed brain, we are just the same as them. And in the respect of sexual control, I’m starting to think we’re regressing.

I’m basicly trying to say that there is a natural order of things that is ingrained to the core of our very beings. Some of these, the world’s religions would have us deny. Others are a part of our identity as an animal, the human animal. Occasionally, one or two shows up every couple generations that simply has something wrong with him, generally on a genetic level, and that’s fine. Let him be what he needs to be. But don’t encourage others to follow in his steps out of intention. I believe the reason why so many are repulsed at the concept of homosexualism is that some natural part of them is telling them that it’s not right. It’s out of sync.

On my final notes, I don’t think as many people would have a problem with homosexuals if they weren’t so open about it. I mean, I generally don’t ever make mention of my sexual preference in common everyday conversation. I don’t act any differently in public(figuratively speaking) than any other normal person. In fact, me personally, I think excessive public displays of affection are inappropriate. A handshake, a short hug, maybe a quick peck between two partners, could be considered appropriate. But long, prolonged kissing, ect, no. It’s inappropriate.

Now, we have teenage boys working in McDonalds(please don’t sue me) that practically advertise their sexual preferance, intentionally altering their voices, acting slightly weird, and in many cases, feminine. I don’t mind people who act DIFFERENT(though abnoxious still gets on my nerves), but most people I consider weird have a certain subtlety around it, including me. I’m weird, but I don’t publicly advertise it. I say hello, use common courtesy, talk in my naturally given voice, maybe throw in a little flattery, and most of all, I don’t act. Half these guys are obviously acting in order to show that they’re gay.

Well, time for bed. I really think we should end all of this, because these arguments will continue to the end of time if not ended. I suggest it be ended on neutral terms.

Everyone has their own opinions. Respect each other, and quit talking about stuff that there are so many disagreements on.

And as the US military (used) to like to say, “Don’t ask, Don’t tell.” I don’t need to know your sexual preference, you don’t need to know mine.

What amazes me is that the people who think they should not get married - some how think that if they don’t legalize gay marriage - it will make people not gay. They think there will be less of them if they don’t let them get married. It’s quite humurous.

If he forgives - then why not let them marry and be happy.

It’s a lot more than just not being able to be married and people don’t realize that. When homosexual couple have been together for more than 20 years, say one of them get’s very sick, even terminally ill and is in ICU, since they are not related legally, the partner is not allowed to go into the ICU room. All because they are allowed to be married. Now tell me how humane that is?

Also, your bible verses mean NOTHING to someone who does not follow the bible and beleive in God. Your “God” should have nothing to do with a government piece of paper that allows people to get married. There are thousands of religions in the world - yours is not the only one and should not be affecting the laws.

Stupid bible thumpers think that because the bible (which was written by mortal men) says something that they can impose it on an entire nation. That is why.

Homosexual RELATIONS are exactly what they were. Not homosexual MARRIAGES, but homosexual RElATIONSHIPS.

RELATIONS in the Bible, is referring to sexual activities, and it is by no means synonymous with RELATIONSHIPS.

because its in the constution, or bill of rights, marrige is for a male, and female. and god said marriege was ment for man, and women, you know the saying he created adam and eve, not adam and steve.

one of the reason Sadam and Gamoras were destroyed was because of homosexuality, along with good old fashion fornification and adultry.

You left out the big ones… rape and inhospitality to strangers…

Well, if you want to get into the Christianity argument again, look through the five books of moses, along with Genesis. In Genesis, one of the reason Sadam and Gamoras were destroyed was because of homosexuality, along with good old fashion fornification and adultry.

But I know several atheist(one of whom is a good friend) who do not support homosexuality, nor marriage between two partners of homosexual preference.

I like what prince 1116 said : God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.

Gee… as if THAT hasn’t been said 8,000 times already… so witty…