Do Christians believe that women are weaker?

To Orion, why on earth would I post a question about what I believe? That makes no sence WHATSOEVER. Please think about what you say before you type something that just makes you sound like a silly child. Since many of you seem to not know what the word dominant means, I will supply the meaning here. In any sence of the word, it means BETTER THAN. Also, where in Genesis does it say specifically that women are the only ones to be cursed? Weren’t men also cursed to work (as opposed to in the “garden”, where they had to do nothing to survive) their entire lives as a result of having disobeyed their “god”? My husband and I are equal in our marriage, and neither is more “dominant” than the other. I am suprised that there is still such backwards thinking in today’s modern society. This is also one reason that I will never set foot in another church in my life (even though my family goes to church 3 times a week). Why should women be treated differently just because they have vaginas and breasts? dominant

adj Definition: main, primary Antonyms: inferior, secondary, subordinate

adj

Definition: superior, controlling Antonyms: humble, inferior, modest, reserved, retiring, unaggressive, unassuming, uncontrolling

Stephanief987,

I guess you haven’t actually read your bible?

Let’s look at a few passages:

Lot offers his two daughters for gang rape, rather than letting the mob have their way with his male guests. 2 Pet.2:7-8. 19:8

Rachel considers herself worthless if she cannot produce children for her husband, so she offers her maid instead. Genesis 30:3

It’s Ok to sell your daughter, and there are specific instruction for what to do with them if they should displease their new master. Exodus 21:7

If you rape a women you must marry her. If the father refuses, you must pay him the going rate for virgins. Exodus 22:16

Women are dirty and sinful after childbirth, so God prescribes rituals for their purification. Leviticus 12:1-5

If a man dies and has no son, then his inheritance goes to his daughter. But if he has a son, then the daughter gets nothing. Numbers 27:8

If you see a pretty woman among the captives and would like her for a wife, then just bring her home and “go in unto her.” Later, if you decide you don’t like her, you can “let her go.” Deuteronomy 21:11-14

If a man marries, then decides that he hates his wife, he can claim she wasn’t a virgin when they were married. If her father can’t produce the “tokens of her virginity” (bloody sheets), then the woman is to be stoned to death at her father’s doorstep. Deuteronomy 22:13-21

If a man rapes an unbetrothed virgin, he must pay her father 50 shekels of silver and then marry her. Deuteronomy 22:28-29

Should I go on? Old Testament you say? Doesn’t count? How about these ones?

Jesus says that divorce is permissible when the wife is guilty of fornication. Matthew 5:32

In the last days God will make things especially rough on pregnant women. Matthew 13:17

ven Mary had to be “purified” after giving birth to Jesus. Was she defiled by giving birth to the Son of God? Matthew 2:22

Jesus tells Mary Magdalene not to touch him because he hasn’t yet ascended – as if the touch of a woman would defile him and somehow prevent him from ascending into heaven. John 20:17

Paul explains that “the natural use” of women is to act as sexual objects for the pleasure of men. Romans 1:27

Paul says “the head of the woman is the man,” meaning that the women are to be subordinate to men. 1 Corinthians 11:3

If a woman refuses to cover her head in church, then her her head must be shaved. 1 Corinthians 11:5-6

Women are commanded by Paul to be silent in church and to be obedient to men. He further says that “if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in church.” 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Wives must reverence their husband. Ephesians 5:33

“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” 1 Timothy 2:11-12

Only 144,000 celibate men will be saved. (Those who were not “defiled with women.”) Revelations 14:1-4

Charming god you have there.

In addressing the question of the Ordindation of women, the Holy Father John Paul 2 confesses that the Church does not have the authority to ordain women. Jesus did not choose any women to be numbered among his Apostles, nor were any present at the institution of the Eucharist at the Last Supper. Therefore, it is understood that he did not wish the Church (of which he himself is the head, and has built upon the rock of St. Peter).

Now I know that the logical counter argument is that Jesus was living in a patriarcal society and it would have been socially unacceptable to have female Apostles.

However, you must recognize the fact that Jesus of Nazareth was not bound by customes. On multiple occasions, he did things that were socially unacceptable. He even had unescorted women among his disciples, which would have been a major social feux pas. This is just one example of his rejection of his contemporary social norms. If he had wanted to have female Apostles, he would have done it. What was he afraid of, crucifixion?

That being said, this is what the Holy Father JP2 has said about the dignity of women:

“Making reference to Pope John XXIII, who saw women’s greater consciousness of their proper dignity and their entrance into public life as signs of our times(176), the Synod Fathers, when confronted with the various forms of discrimination and marginization to which women are subjected simply because they are women, time and time again strongly affirmed the urgency to defend and to promote the personal dignity of woman, and consequently, her equality with man” (Christifideles Laici 49).

Wow - looks like we really started something here.

It is interesting to watch believers squirm and wriggle their way out of the obvious sexism contained in the bible. Basically they say “it’s all in the OT, so doesn’t matter”, or “Jesus came and changed everything”, or “Eve was created because Adam was lonely” (why did god create Adam this way?).

You can make all the excuses you like, but if you actually READ the bible you would see it contains countless examples or sexism, slavery, genocide, hatred, and other barbarities.

It’s not as if I don’t know what I am talking about either. I have read the Bible from front to back a few times. I have also read the Quran. I spent many years as a believer (my grandfather was a minister and my father grew up int he rectory). After a thinking about the issues for a long time I reached the conclusion that all religions are no better than any other superstitious belief - totally bogus.

Women, at least in the Judeo-Christian tradition, have had to deal with the “curse of Eve” for centuries now. The fact that the Biblical tale has Eve succombing to the temptation of the serpent and then tempting Adam into sinning, has become an excuse to persecute and suppress women for a long time. WOmen have been viewed as evil temptresses, the more sinister and seductive of the two genders.

The curse goes something like this: woman will have the desire to be the dominant sex, but the way of the world will result in man being the dominant sex and woman having to deal with it.

Many Christians look at this and say, “well female submission to male authority is sanctioned by God, or at least a fact of life after the Fall”. The problem with this line of thinking is that, it was a CURSE. It’s not the way things are supposed to be. The original intent, as least as far as I can tell, was for men and women to be equal. This is the desirable outcome of gender relations. Rules and commandments that treat women as inferiors are based on the flawed reasoning that the Curse is somehow what God wanted, rather than what God enacted to punish the transgressions of the hungry first couple.

Again, this is just an interpretation of a story. It’s not my view that any of this took place or that it is the best guideline for how to look at gender relations. But the BIble has been misinterpreted many times, and this is no excpetiion.

I think the comment by ‘aarthur’ defines how Christians view women. You did ask us didn’t you? What we as Christians believe about women, not what you’d rather believe yourself?…

This comment below needs to be said again because it is so very true and if you want to know how Christians think and believe then you should read this…after we are Christians.

“Are women weaker?

In the strictest sense of the word, yes women are physically weaker than men. However, if you are speaking in the spiritual sense, then the answer is no.

There are other passages that are worthy of your consideration. I ask you also to consider the times in which it was written and how truly revolutionary it was.

“And God said, ‘let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness…’ So God created man His own image, in the image of God He created him; male AND FERMALE He created them” (Gen. 1:26-27). Thus we declare that women are “equal in dignity.”

If there is any doubt that Christians believe women have demonstrated their strength of will and perseverance, look at the women depicted in scripture. Rebecca in Genesis, Ruth, Ester, Judith, and the greatest example of strength and motherly care: Mary, the mother of Jesus.

Sometimes people forget the hardships that the Gospels depicted for Mary. She was an “illegitimate” mother; she traveled to Bethany over 100 miles away over the hill country of Judea (possibly unescorted in the ancient world); she made the journey back to Nazareth, only to find out that she had to go back to Judea, and then give birth in a stable. Then she had to go to Egypt and back! After all this, she had to watch her Son die a torturous death by crucifixion. Try to put yourself in her shoes.

Also consider this, all the people on this board who are telling you that Christians believe the women are not equal in dignity are not Christians themselves. However, all the Christians are telling you that we believe in the dignity and equality of women. Are you to accept what I say I believe, or what others tell you about me?”

Thanks aartthur for this insightful message! :)

I didn’t read all the answers, but, I especially liked Amblessed’s.

Jesus came to restore a woman to her rightful place, beside her husband. She had been degraded to a person of very little value, but, to him, she was priceless. He knew her worth, and wanted her to be able to reach her full potential.

This will not be done, thru the feminist movement, (sorry girls) it will be done, by submitting to God, and to her husband, and allowing Christ to elevate her, to where he wants her to be.

Any by this, I do not mean that she is less than, but, when her attitude is right, her husband will cherish her. She will be the queen of his life. He will bend over backward to serve her and please her.

She will love him and nourish him, and strengthen and bless him, and he will be her hero. This is the relationship that I believe God has for every Godly woman. I know that tension exists in marriage, but, if we follow the precepts given in the word, we will be able to work thru them.

Every man wants to be king of his castle, and he wants a queen. No body needs two kings. Nor two queens. That was not the way God designed it. One man, and one woman, for life.

Lived in submission to each other, and to their heavenly father.

A woman has to be free in Christ, to achieve her true potential. If we are to be filled with the same Holy Spirit as a man, and if we are to be led, as a man, then, we have to be able to follow.

Jesus said, we are all one in him. No male no female. One new man. Man, being male and female. Both, being in subjection to him. Both being led by him. Both being able to fulfill their God given destinies. Both complimenting one another. Both walking in love, and subjection, one to the other.

The woman is the weaker sex, in the fact that she is more emotional, normally, than a man. A man can stand his ground better than a woman, for the most part. He is stronger in that way.

And being a woman, that does not bother me at all, in fact, I am very glad that my husband can stand in the gap for me, when need be. He is strong enough to defend me, if need be. I have run to him, more than once, for the protection that he offers.

I am very glad that he is a man, and that I am a woman, and that God made this kind of relationship possble, and that he taught me how to make it workable.

I am strong… yet, I am weak… and I have no problem admitting that. I believe I would be lying to myself to think otherwise.

I cry, he acts.

And I am ok with that.

He empowers me, and I do likewise with him.

Together, we are complete.

Without each other, both would be incomplete.

He has strengths, I have strengths.

We do not compete with one another.

Neither of us is threatened by the other.

He does not fear my strength, nor do I his.

I do not Lord it over him, nor does he over me.

If it comes down to making a decision, and we can’t agree, I choose to go his way.

I see him as my head.

And Christ is over both of us.

Submission in love, one to the other, for the Glory of God.

Are women weaker?

In the strictest sense of the word, yes women are physically weaker than men. However, if you are speaking in the spiritual sense, then the answer is no.

There are specific answers to the quotations that askegg raised, and I will address them later. For now, you deserve a straight answer to your question.

There is other passage that is worthy of your consideration. I ask you also to consider the times in which it was written and how truly revolutionary it was.

“And God said, ‘let us make man in our image, after our likeness…’ So God created man his own image, in the image of God he created him; male AND FERMALE he created them” (Gen. 1:26-27). Thus we declare that women are “equal in dignity.”

If there is any doubt that Christians believe women have demonstrated their strength of will and perseverance, look at the women depicted in scripture. Rebecca in Genesis, Ruth, Ester, Judith, and the greatest example of strength and motherly care: Mary, the mother of Jesus.

Sometimes people forget the hardships that the Gospels depicted for Mary. She was an “illegitimate” mother; she traveled to Bethany over 100 miles away over the hill country of Judea (possibly unescorted in the ancient world); she made the journey back to Nazareth, only to find out that she had to go back to Judea, and then give birth in a stable. Then she had to go to Egypt and back! After all this, she had to watch her Son die a torturous death by crucifixion. Try to put yourself in her shoes. (It’s no wonder that the Catholic Church claims that she is God’s most perfect creation, second only to God himself.)

In recent times, the Holy Father Pope John Paul 2 wrote an Apostolic Letter on the Dignity of women (Mulieris Dignitatem), which is worthy of your attention if you want to know what the Christians in authority think of women. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html.

Also consider this, all the people on this board who are telling you that Christians believe the women are not equal in dignity are not Christians themselves. However, all the Christians are telling you that we believe in the dignity and equality of women. Are you to accept what I say I believe, or what others tell you about me?

In answer to the specific question, weaker vessel would imply something that is more easily broken– the “kid gloves” that amblessed referred to. The husband is also commanded to love the wife as Christ loved the church– by dying for it. Men and women are not equal, no matter how many times you say it. They are both different, weaker and stronger in different areas.

And since you seem to think I’ll have a problem with scripture, here’s my responses:

Lot offers his two daughters for gang rape, rather than letting the mob have their way with his male guests. 2 Pet.2:7-8. 19:8

First, your references are wrong. Though 2 Pet 2:7-8 reference Lot, he is not praised for offering his daughters, but that he was vexed over the unrighteousness of the town he chose to live in. These verses don’t reference the event of the male guests. And 2 Pet only has 3 chapters, so I can’t comment on whatever 19:8 refers to.

Rachel considers herself worthless if she cannot produce children for her husband, so she offers her maid instead. Genesis 30:3

Historical accuracy does not connote a specific attitude toward women. Simply put, that Rachel felt that her worth was contained in the ability to produce offspring indicates her opinion, not the Bible’s.

It’s Ok to sell your daughter, and there are specific instruction for what to do with them if they should displease their new master. Exodus 21:7

This talks about a maidservant betrothed to a man for the payment of the debt and allows protection against her being sold into slavery to a foreign person. Hardly how you characterize it since betrothal was a common process in the Old Testament times whereby dowrys were presented, etc.

If you rape a women you must marry her. If the father refuses, you must pay him the going rate for virgins. Exodus 22:16

Again, another circumstance with dowrys. And this shows how important God views sex, not how He views women. Casual sex was what was being outlawed here. If you had sex with her, you were to marry her.

Women are dirty and sinful after childbirth, so God prescribes rituals for their purification. Leviticus 12:1-5

I take it that you haven’t had any children? Current medical practice suggests 6 weeks of no sexual contact after childbirth to let the woman’s body heal. I think that if you compare the 40 days prescribed for purification with the 6 weeks (42 days) the current doctors prescribe that you’ll see that they’re roughly equal. Far from being a knock on women, this was done to protect her body just as her OB doctor says now.

If a man dies and has no son, then his inheritance goes to his daughter. But if he has a son, then the daughter gets nothing. Numbers 27:8

Land was to be kept in the family so that no family was left without. In order to ensure this, land was to be passed on to the males that carried the name rather than females who were integrated into other families. Same way that women assume the man’s name and rarely vice versa. Hardly a comment on the status of the woman.

If you see a pretty woman among the captives and would like her for a wife, then just bring her home and ‘go in unto her.’ Later, if you decide you don’t like her, you can ‘let her go.’ Deuteronomy 21:11-14

Again, you leave out the protection for the woman. If you go and take her (which would be merciful in that you could rightly have killed her) and then you humble her and make her your wife, you can let her go, but you cannot sell her, you cannot make merchandise off her. She is not to be a slave. Rather than treating her like dirt, she has value.

If a man marries, then decides that he hates his wife, he can claim she wasn’t a virgin when they were married. If her father can’t produce the ‘tokens of her virginity’ (bloody sheets), then the woman is to be stoned to death at her father’s doorstep. Deuteronomy 22:13-21

If she is not a virgin than she and the one who defiled her deserve death according to the Mosaic code. (Deut 22:22, which you conveniently leave out) Again, sexual sin is what it important here, not the value of the woman. In fact, you’re placing incorrect emphasis. In the passage noted, the emphasis is on the man. If the man doesn’t like her and lies about her, then he is to be punished.

If a man rapes an unbetrothed virgin, he must pay her father 50 shekels of silver and then marry her. Deuteronomy 22:28-29

The man has to take responsibility for his actions. He lied with the woman and now he has to pay for it, and take her as wife. More about sex than it is the value of the woman.

Should I go on? Old Testament you say? Doesn’t count? How about these ones?

So far, all you’ve managed to prove with your verses is that you’re pretty good at copying and pasting (unless you really thought there was a 2 Pet 19, and really thought that 2 Pet referenced what happened in Genesis), what Rachel thought about herself, and that God was really interested in protecting the woman and sex was to be shared in marriage. In actuality, you proved that God protected the woman and cared for her more than present day America, because today a man’s able to lie with a woman with no strings attached. He can hookup with her and dump her and feel no remorse and take little responsibility for it unless he bears a child. If he does that, he can simply have her abort it. I’d think that more women would feel valued if they knew that men couldn’t just abuse them, lie about them, or sleep with them without any responsibility. Of course, there will be exceptions and women that want to sleep around, but in general, the Bible, at least in your Old Testament references, holds the woman in high esteem and demands that men take responsibility.

Jesus says that divorce is permissible when the wife is guilty of fornication. Matthew 5:32

Actually, what He says is that no-fault divorce is wrong, and that the only permissible reason for divorce is fornication. Again, protecting the woman, who was (at the time) reliant on the provision of the man. Puts the woman in high esteem.

In the last days God will make things especially rough on pregnant women. Matthew 13:17

Again, bad reference. If you correct it, I’ll comment.

[E]ven Mary had to be ‘purified’ after giving birth to Jesus. Was she defiled by giving birth to the Son of God? Matthew 2:22

Again with the whole problem with the same advice that contemporary OBGYNs give out? Certainly you don’t need a biology lesson?

Jesus tells Mary Magdalene not to touch him because he hasn’t yet ascended – as if the touch of a woman would defile him and somehow prevent him from ascending into heaven. John 20:17

In this case, it’s hardly that the problem is that she’s a woman. You’re putting that in the text, arguing from silence. The whole line that it would prevent His ascent is also an argument from silence.

Paul explains that ‘the natural use’ of women is to act as sexual objects for the pleasure of men. Romans 1:27

No, Paul argues that sexual relations are to be done between opposite sexes, not within the sex. Context, again, defeats your argument.

Paul says ‘the head of the woman is the man,’ meaning that the women are to be subordinate to men. 1 Corinthians 11:3

As Man is subordinated to Christ and Christ to God. Simply an established order. And you must remember that Christ died for all, and explained that leadership in His kingdom comes by being a servant. In this case, women are to be served by their leader, their husband, as well as being submissive to his leadership.

If a woman refuses to cover her head in church, then her her head must be shaved. 1 Corinthians 11:5-6

This does not speak to the value of a woman or whether she is weaker.

Women are commanded by Paul to be silent in church and to be obedient to men. He further says that ‘if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in church.’ 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

There is some discussion here about what was going on in Corinth specifically and whether this is a general application. Corinth was also lectured about too many speaking in tongues during the service and needing more interpreters. Of all that you listed so far, this is the best one that you’ve had. And even then, we’re talking about behavior inside of a church primarily, not speaking about women in general.

Wives must reverence their husband. Ephesians 5:33

And this verse starts “let everyone love his own wife as himself.” Last time I checked there’s not a man that doesn’t love himself, and if you have to love your wife like you love yourself, how hard will it be to show him respect. I would argue that this actually puts the harder burden on the husband, as he is to love her, whereas the woman is only commanded (in this verse) to pay him respect.

‘Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.’ 1 Timothy 2:11-12

Practical, concerning the times, but also goes toward the church functioning as a group and order of submission rather than a comment on whether a woman is weaker.

Only 144,000 celibate men will be saved. (Those who were not ‘defiled with women.’) Revelations 14:1-4

Paul talks at length to the ability of a man (or woman) to be able to commit their entire person to Christ by not having a wife and family. This is more talking about sex and marriage than it is the worth of the woman.

All that being said, you should attempt to actually quote things in context, and refrain from using historical account of a person’s opinion as a command or indicative of the work. You should also do a little research into common biological processes, and keep in mind that the Bible does confer an organizational structure (headship, leadership submission) but then goes to great detail to specify how leaders are to act– which is the opposite of the common culture.

Christ said that earthly leaders exercise lordship and dominion over subjects, but that Christians should not be so– that each was to esteem the other better than themselves and to serve one another.

Now, I’ll be the first to grant that this is radical and many Christians don’t live this in their lives, for if they did the impact would be tremendous. We wouldn’t being having this conversation if Christians did all that they could in the power and for the glory of Christ.

God loves us equal, and don’t bash me, but I’m a guy, and I’m pretty emotional, so what does that mean exactly. is it bad for a guy to sensitive. not all guys try to be tough guys^_^

I don’t think that anyone here has claimed that women are useless. The question at hand is about St. Peter’s reference to women the weaker sex (which was not supposed to be a knock on women, but rather an encouragement for men to step up to the plate).

I’ve thought about this question too

Why would God create women if we wer useless? And God loves us all as equal.

Yes I agree twilightgrl911 the Huband is responsible for the well being of his family, It is his job to protect, Love and nurish his wife and children. . .

rnealw.. you are right women are stronger in different ways then guys. but guys are stronger then women in different ways too..

they are supposed to be known as the protectors of the household.. does that make sense to you ? haha

no, women are not weaker physically or mentally or anything else. the bible just says that the women must me submissive the the authority of the household (meaning your spouse, if your married), which the bible says is the husband.

“The shots alone were extremely painful not to mention the surgery! Anyway, he finally asked me if I was doing ok, I said ‘sure why’”

So you lied to him. Naughty Christian.

twilightgrl911 Do you really think a man would have the streangth to bare a child. . . . I’ve always considered women Stronger than men in a different way . . . Except for a few who just want to Argue. . .

so you are a woman… and you believe in a god that purposely made you weaker than a man.

to further poke holes… I am physically strong, stronger than some men I know. oops, god must have made a mistake.

I think god created men to be stronger.. and women weaker.. that doesnt mean that guys are better but they are stronger.

I find it funny that Christians will rationalize, excuse, and ignore “God’s” absurdity, and sexism displayed in the Bible.

Don’t you know why? Because God is a fictional character written in the image of crude men.

Silverwings, you are completely delusional!!

Did you even read any of askegg’s scripture quotes. You belief system is very selective.

A woman weaker? they have children right. . . . . . . . Behind every great man you will find a strong woman. . . . . Be it his mother or his spouse. . . or Both.

To spite what the bible says, no. Women are equals in most (all?) Christian nations, which just goes to show you that their morality does not come from their precious, in-errant, book directed by god himself.

Pain is relative. The male body and female body respond differently to various kinds of pain. It’s not really a valid statement to say that women can tolerate more pain than men because of childbearing…for the simple reason that no man has ever gone through childbearing and we have no basis for how a man would respond to something like that.

Other circumstances have shown that men hold up better under torture than women do, and that the female body is more vulnerable to torture than the male body.

On the other hand, there are studies showing that certain ethnic groups have higher tolerance of pain as well (East Asians ranking among the highest). So it’s kind of skewed issue.

“explain why MANY denominations DENY women the right to be ordained?”

Tradition, mainly. Religious authority has traditionally been male in both Jewish and Christian religions. Many believe there are still gender roles within the church, and for women, that role does not include being a priest or minister.

As far as I know, the only religious group that has always allowed female ministers or clergy is the Society of Friends (Quakers). And, I believe the only religious denomination that currently has majority of female ministers is the Unitarian Universalist church. They were among the first to begin ordaining women.

askegg said “Actually, according to many studies men have a higher tolerance of pain” There is only one thing I’d like to say to that AAAHHH!!! LOLOLOOO!!!

I had to have surgery on my finger from a Hobo Spider bite. The doc kept looking at me during the surgery, which I found very interesting and was observing quite closely.

The shots alone were extremely painful not to mention the surgery! Anyway, he finally asked me if I was doing ok, I said ‘sure why’. He told me that he’d had football players (big tough guys) go thru a lot less than I was and they would pass right cold! So, please askegg, don’t even go there. :)

I’d like to see ANY man have a child, just ONE = it wouldn’t happen. LOL!!

I’m sorry, their role? Are you implying women were meant to stay home and take care of babies? So basically whatever your husband says goes? Uhm yeah women got tired of being abused and mistreated because they’re the “weaker” sex and they did something about it. You are only on this site allowed to say what you say because women fought for equal rights… Look at some arab countries where women aren’t even allowed to drive or go out alone (this is only for their own protection ofcourse…) You take your liberties for granted because you dont know what it’s like to live without them…

To amoeba :

I as well as others gave well thought out, detailed responses and silverwings stated that she didn’t read all the comments but that she agreed with amblessed. I was offended and responded as such. it happens. my response to silverwings was definately not nice and I am sorry for that.

Thank you Amoeba… I accept you appologies… We all have bad days at times… However, I surely meant no offense by not reading all the replies, and I did like Amblesseds… I post on a lot of different boards, and therefore do not have a lot of time, so often, I will read the question, and post my response, without reading the others. No harm intended.

Sorry…

Let me state one thing then - I do not consider women weaker at all. They may have different skill sets (in general), but that does not equate to weaker in any respect.

It seems the central book of Christianity has a very different view of women that I, or most of the western world’s population now have. It seems clear to me that the west is not really based on “Christian values” in the least.

So rnealw, you are agreeing that that ridiculous book of yours promotes the subjugation of women. Don’t women deserve just as much support from their husbands as they give to them? Or are they only to speak when spoken to? That is what it says in that silly book of yours.

And you actually choose to embrace such garbage. You need a time machine to get back to the middle ages.

The question is, what does “behind” mean? Sure, it can mean the Islamic “you must walk 5 paces behind me” but it also can mean a guiding force, or source of strength.

Indeed, it has been said that it is because of women that men do the things that they do– they write the things that they do, they create the things that they do– very often they have something pushing them to be all that they can be.

Truth be told, if you look back at Genesis and look why woman was created it was because it was not good that man was alone. Man could not be (and therefore woman could not be) all that they could be without the other. Each needed the other. Woman was not created to be man’s slave, but his help meet.

Because it Is instructed in the Scripture 1Co 14:33-35 for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, (34) let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law. (35) And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church. You may also want to take the words of minthegap in mine. . . By the way minthegap great explanation. . . . Ameoba you ever see the verison commucials with the person showing off the new phone and someone asking who all the people behind them is and they say it’s their network. . Guess where their network is. . . . . ./\ as in support.

I believe you missed the point amoeda. . . that is an old saying from long ago. it could probably be beside if you wish. After all in the Christian belief woman was made from a rib which is considered to be in ancient times at the side, And the reason she was behind was because the was pushing him and holding him up. . . a lot of great men would not get where they was at with out a woman constantly pushing him to do better. . . . . AND to be someone she and her children can be proud of.

orion - I gathered my information regarding the OFFICIAL ordination of women from the Adventist News Network - Adventist News Network Released by: Ray Dabrowski Written by: Max Torkelsen I, Rick Kajiura, Ray Dabrowski FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 5, 1995 WOMEN’S ORDINATION REQUEST REJECTED AT SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST WORLD SESSION Utrecht, The Netherlands… Casting what is essentially a vote against the ordination of women for the Seventh-day Adventist Church, delegates to the 56th World Congress of the Seventh-day Adventist Church voted not to allow world divisions of the Church to ordain individuals without regard to gender. Fewer than one-third of the delegates voted in favor of the request from the North American Division of the Church which asked that divisions, not the Church as a whole, be allowed to make the decision on ordination. Of the 2,154 votes cast, 1,481 voted against the request, 673 voted for.

AND from the Seventh Day Adventist UCCSDA website… “The Seventh-day Adventist Church officially does not ordain women. Recent votes at the worldwide General Conference Sessions turned down a proposal to allow ordination of women. There was a strong polarization between nations, with Western countries generally voting in support and other countries generally voting against. A further proposal to allow local choice was also turned down. In practice, there are numerous women working as ministers and in leadership positions though they are not officially ordained.’

sorry if the Seventh Day Adventist network and the Seventh Day Adventist UCCSDA site got it wrong. I was only quoting what they said. and if you will note, what I said was that “The Seventh-day Adventist Church officially does not ordain women and the co-founder of the church, Ellen G. White, was a woman. “
they say officially…I said officially… maybe things have changed in the last few days and the websites have not been updated yet. you should contact them and correct their mistakes.

“God in no way views women as being inferior. Instead, God will reward men and women based on how they have served the Lord Jesus Christ while here on earth…Hope this helps !! “

Actually it doesn’t help at all… You are someone who constantly throws scripture in peoples faces. Yet, askegg shows overwhelming evidence from your own book that shows your god is at best schizophrenic in his feelings about women. Why do you completely ignore those parts of scripture?

It just goes to show that you truly are nothing more than a zealot who cares nothing about truth.

I wouldn’t say god intended it for that reason. I think he intended that the male will more less take charge, and be head of a household type thing. I believe got made things for men to dominate in. But, that doesn’t mean men and woman aren’t equal. The bible teaches us that men and women are in fact equal. The symbolism of Genesis and the Garden of Eden is such that we should believe that we are perpetual partners, completely dependent upon each other for survival and bound to each other by God’s will.

rnealw - thank you for your intelligent and well researched answer. I couldn’t have proven my point any more eloquently or thoroughly. in the bible, women are NOT considered equal.

‘As in all the churches of the saints, (34) let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law. (35) And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church.’

‘It is so unfortunate that modern feminism has caused women to resent their role and to see it as subservient.’

modern feminism focuses on the equality of men and women. it focuses on women’s ability to show and maintain their equality through their own actions and choices. some of the issues that are important to feminists include reproductive and abortion rights, sexual harassment, voting, education, “equal pay for equal work”, affordable childcare, affordable health care, and bringing to light the frequency of sexual and domestic violence against women.

amblessed - yes, here on earth, women deserve to be treated unfairly because in heaven it will be great. let me try to remember…what would we have called you? oh yes, male chauvinist pig. hope this helps!

aarthur001- true, there are many strong and persevering women depicted in scripture. and mary suffered horribly. BUT The Southern Baptist Convention does not support the ordination of women. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not give women the priesthood. The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod (LCMS), which is the second largest Lutheran body in the United States, does not ordain women. The Presbyterian Church in America does not ordain women, though the PCUSA does. The Orthodox Presbyterian Churches do not ordain women. The Seventh-day Adventist Church officially does not ordain women and the co-founder of the church, Ellen G. White, was a woman. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that only a baptized man may be ordained. while there are many churches that do ordain women, it amazes me that some of the largest denominations do not. the many female missionaries who are honored for their devotion, dedication and sacrifice are not allowed to be ordained. that does not appear to be “equal”. and you are correct, I am not christian. I am not anything but that does not prevent me from understanding that many christian churches do NOT view women as equal. women may suffer, they may sacrifice, they may give their lives in service to the church BUT HEAVEN FORBID they should be ordained to lead the church.

2 thumbs up Orion. . . Good answer. . .

Your not helping matters askegg. . .

Actually, according to many studies men have a higher tolerance of pain.

There’s another good story about 3 bears and some porridge, again it’s the female who’s to blame.

ameoba said: “The Seventh-day Adventist Church officially does not ordain women and the co-founder of the church, Ellen G. White, was a woman.” This is not true.

If this were true then why do we have a female pastor? It is because we do ordain women as pastors.

rnealw- thanks but I didn’t miss the point… behind is behind. it is an antiquated saying from an antiquated, repressed time.

Now, there was a time, when they used to say, that behind ev’ry great man, there had to be a great woman. But oh, in these times of change, you know that it’s no longer true. So we’re comin’ out of the kitchen, ‘cause there’s something we forgot to say to you. We say, Sisters are doin’ it for themselves,

if genders are equal, and christianity believes that women are not spiritually weaker than men…
please CHRISTIANS explain why MANY denominations DENY women the right to be ordained?

“BEHIND every great man you will find a strong woman…’

exactly the point…why not BESIDE?

and silverwings (believe me no one on this site is surprised that you didn’t read all the answers, gosh there were only TEN, or that you especially liked amblessed’s)

‘The woman is the weaker sex, in the fact that she is more emotional, normally, than a man. A man can stand his ground better than a woman, for the most part. He is stronger in that way.’

the fact that is coming from a woman, turns my stomach.

you are the perfect example of the point many here were trying to make.

rnealw :) thanks! I like your answer to this question too.

thanks semi. I was trying to make the point that the bible does not consider women to be equal to men and that some christian denominations follow suit. there are still sects of judaism that do not allow female rabbis and some that even don’t allow women to study the talmud.

No - Equal:

In God’s eyes, men and women are equal in importance. Leadership, or headship, does not necessarily assume superiority. It is just a role. God is the head of Christ, yet the two are the same. A husband and wife team is simply that: a team. They are both vital to the health of the family but one has to be the head. God chose man to be the provider and protector and woman to be the comforter and nurturer. It is so unfortunate that modern feminism has caused women to resent their role and to see it as subservient.

“Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered” (I Peter 3:7)

If the Lord thought women were inferior to men, why would he direct Peter to warn husbands to give honor to his wife, to treat her as though she was the weaker vessel? Notice that Peter does not say that because she is the weaker vessel, but AS the weaker vessel. If a man is treating his wife with honor, with kid gloves (gently), his view of his wife will not be along the lines of a rug mat (to think of his wife as inferior), but to treasure his wife.

Another point well worth noting is the solemn warning issued by Peter to husbands. If a husband is not treating his wife as Peter has instructed (with respect, as a fellow heir to our rewards in Heaven), then his prayers will be hindered. In the vernacular, “His prayers will in essence bounce off the ceiling”.

God in no way views women as being inferior. Instead, God will reward men and women based on how they have served the Lord Jesus Christ while here on earth…Hope this helps !!