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At first I'd wish you read the whole thing. :)
I am a person who likes to think well what I'm saying. And since a certain incident occured, all my thoughts have become more and more related to religion. Im finally capable of critical thinking towards Christianity.
My conclusions are that there is no such thing as an invisible man in the sky a.k.a GOD. And even if he exists, he doesnt seem to care about us. I know people have invented religion as a way to receive hope and bravery and so on. But keep in mind, the best lies we tell, are told to ourselves. Religion came into practise because people wanted to believe it and were incapable of critical thinking.
Second thing about Christianity concerns praying. It's useless waste of time. Haven't you heard of the so called "Perfect Divine Plan"?? it's the thingy which god made , which had a little special task for every human-being which was as long as their lifespans. Well, here's a question.. Would you seriously think that if there is a god that he would be willing to alter this perfect plan of his for the sake of you??? Little greedy dont you think ??
Third thing is about the christian churches. Firstly... screw the pope and his stupid little hat. (sorry im getting pissed). In the Vatican where the pope resides has over and over again modified the rules and boundries that christianity has set. This is due to technology and other pressure. But I say that that's just another way of keeping the cash flows open. If it had no money involved, would you think that the Vatican or any religious leaders would ever alter any of their teachings...? I dont think so.. You probably know that in some countries churches have the permission to collect a tax from it's members, BUT the church itself doesnt pay any taxes. I would like to see what would happen if the government started to tax the churches and therefore churches would raise their taxing of the people and so forth. I bet that friggin' many church members would stop paying the tax and would resign from the church. If a religion is about money and other earthly benefits to you, come clean and admit it.. if you say that it's not about those, you're a f*cking lying hypocrite.
Now lastly, as it comes to commenting this thread.. I dont want to hear stories of your almighty god... Just tell why you agree/disagree.. I am more than willing to read them..
You should also search YouTube for "George Carlin religion". George is a famous comedian but also a deep thinker. He uses comedy to strenghten his points which are fascinating and precisely on the jackpot.
"God's plan" is the way that Christians traditionally explain things like amputations, cancer, hurricanes and car accidents. For example, if a Christian dies a painful and tragic death because of cancer, she dies as part of God's plan. Her death has a purpose. God called her home for a reason. Even if something bad happens to a Christian, it is actually good because it is part of God's plan.
You can see how pervasive "God's plan" is by looking in Christian inspirational literature. For example, if we look in the book A Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren, we find this remarkable paragraph in Chapter 2:
Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]
There is also this:
Regardless of the circumstances of your birth or who your parents are, God had a plan in creating you.
Under this view of the universe, God plans everything.
Take a moment and think about what Rick Warren said. Rick said, "He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death." Let's examine one simple implication of this statement. What this means is that God has pre-planned every abortion that has taken place on our planet.
If the concept of "God's plan" is true, you can first of all see that God wants us to be aborting children. Every single abortion is planned by God, so God must be doing it for a reason. Second, you can see that both the mother who requests the abortion and the doctor who performs it are blameless. Since it is God who planned the abortion of the child (God chose the "exact time" of the death, according to Rick Warren), the mother and doctor are simply puppets who are fulfilling God's plan, are they not? What about all the Christians who are fighting against abortion? If abortion is part of God's plan, why are they fighting it? God is the all-powerful ruler of the universe, and his plan is for more than a million children a year to die in the United States through abortion. [ref] If God's plan is true, then each one of those abortions was meticulously planned by God.
If God does not intend for us to perform abortions, is Rick Warren then wrong that God has a plan? If God has a plan, is he not the direct cause of every abortion? Simply think it through, and you will begin to see the problems in Rick's proposition.
Think about Adolph Hitler. He was evil incarnate, and Hitler is well known for the atrocious things he did. What I would like you to do right now is to consider this statement: "Hitler is part of God's Plan." Think about what Rick said:
He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]
Rick also says:
God never does anything accidentally, and he never makes mistakes. He has a reason for everything he creates. Every plant and every animal was planned by God, and every person was designed with a purpose in mind.
If God has a divine plan for each of us, then he had a divine plan for Hitler too. It is when you stop to think about it deeply that the contradictions hit you.
Now let's imagine that you say a prayer in this sort of universe. What difference does it make? God has his plan, and that plan is running down its track like a freight train. If God has a plan, then everyone who died in the Holocaust died for a reason. They had to die, and each death had meaning. Therefore, Holocaust victims could pray all day, and they would still die. The idea of a "plan" makes the idea of a "prayer-answering relationship with God" a contradiction, doesn't it? Yet Christians seem to attach themselves to both ideas, despite the irresolvable problem the two ideas create.
Think about what God's plan means for you personally. If the plan happens to say that you will get hit by a bus tomorrow, or that terrorists will blow you up, or that you will be shot in the head four times, then that's what will happen. It would be the same with any disease. If you contract cancer this afternoon and die three months later, that is God's plan for you. Praying to cure the cancer is a waste. God plans for you to die, so you will die. He has pre-programmed the exact time of your death. There is nothing you can do to change the plan -- no amount of prayer will help -- because your death will have meaning and your death will cause side-effects that are also part of the plan.
Who will you marry? You actually have no choice in the matter. God has pre-planned your wedding in minute detail. Rick Warren says, "God knew that those two individuals [your parents] possessed exactly the right genetic makeup to create the custom 'you' that he had in mind. They had the DNA God wanted to make you." Therefore, your spouse was pre-chosen by God for you so that you would create the children who are a part of his plan. You also have no choice in the number of children you will have -- God has pre-planned their births.
In addition, this sort of universe means that Hitler is blameless. Hitler was not "evil," because Hitler had no free will at all. Hitler was simply an actor forced to play his role in God's plan. God planned for millions of people to die in the Holocaust -- he planned their deaths in exact detail according to Rick Warren. Hitler had to kill those people. Hitler was God's puppet in making that those millions of deaths happen right on schedule.
In the same way then, every murderer is blameless. Since God has planned each of our deaths in exact detail, murderers are actually essential to God's plan. Why do we punish them? We should be rewarding them for doing their God-planned duty. What if you get raped tomorrow and get pregnant? God did that because he planned the exact time of that child's birth and death. God actually pre-planned your rape, and the rapist was God's puppet. Rather than hating the rapist, we should celebrate God's plan.
Do you believe that murderers and rapists should be rewarded? Do you believe that Hitler was sent by God to kill millions of people in the Holocaust? Do you believe that God is the direct cause of every abortion on this planet? Do you believe that you have no choice in your spouse or the number of children you have? Probably not. But that is what you are saying when you state that Hitler or cancer or anything else is part of "God's plan."
If you think about it as an intelligent person, you will realize that the statement "It is part of God's plan" is one of those meaningless palliatives. When you sit down and think it through using your common sense, the statement makes no sense. That lack of sense shows us how imaginary God is.
"What purpose does prayer serve?"
We don't know God's "Plan", if any, but it might just be that it allows for God's creation to evolve on its own. That could include the possibility for man to handle his own affairs and continue to evolve according to the circumstances that develop.
Accordingly, prayer may not actually be a connection to God but rather a connection between one's conscious mind and subconscious mind which allows one to better tune one's conscious mind with the realities that it is facing.
I've Prayer tunes you in
1) The purpose of prayer is as a tuning device.
2) Prayer tunes entities into singleness of being and Harmoniousness of purpose.
3) "Our God, our Guides, and fellow Spirits, we thank Thee for Thy countenance. Pray continue to abide with us."
4) "We are thankful for this past day, And pray that we have grown along the Way; In sleep we turn in search of Thee, For Knowledge, Wisdom and Harmony."
5) "We thank Thee for another day, That we may Love and Grow along the Way; Pray guide our feet where they may go, That we may help all others Grow."
"why are there so many other different beliefs and Gods?"
v Religion and church
1) The common purpose of religion is to aid the entity in its search for Truth.
2) Each entity's level of development and understanding is different.
3) It takes many different styles of religion to accommodate the growth needs of entities at various times.
4) The value of a religion can be judged by its operation and intended accomplishments.
5) Churches exist for the benefit of entities.
6) Churches are to religion what a bathtub is to water.
7) They allow the entity an opportunity to soak in the fellowship of like-minded entities.
8) Churches also allow an entity a method through which to share.
In contrast to believing in the Bible, I believe:
That God is that Creative/Causative Force that exists before the beginning of the universe/time and continues to exist outside of the universe and time.
That "Force" created/caused the spiritual/soul entities to come into being.
The spiritual/soul entities continued the "Creation" with the "Big Bang". And, through evolution and possibly subtle manipulations, have caused the current state of affairs.
The spirits/souls choose to inhabit the various physical bodies that they have created in order to experience physical reality.
When bodies die the spirit/soul continues to exist and often times reincarnates into another body in order to continue its growth.
The purpose of it all is for the spirits/souls (entities) to gain knowledge and experience and to ultimately rejoin or evolve back into the Oneness of God.
I am a Deist! (One who believes in the existence of a God, but denies revealed religion; a freethinker.)
de·ism (de'iz'?m, da'-) n.
The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.
in my opinion
God created/caused our spirits (entities) along with the universe to come into being. God established the purpose for it all but doesn't involve Its self in the continuance or activities of same.
"Sin" is man's concept and is utilized by men to control other men. The human caused "negative events" that take place are circumstances that are considered by us in the non-life experience between incarnations as we evaluate the successes and failures we made as we attempted to achieve our goals during our incarnations.
The Bible (and similar religious books) is a necessary concoction created by man to control man and his environment. It was necessary because mankind, in its infancy, did not have the medical and technological knowledge to conquer and understand its environment so had to be controlled by superstitions which were found to save lives and further the survivability of the various human societies.
Why did God make the world?
in my opinion, God diversified Itself into Its many parts and charged those parts (entities) to go forth and acquire knowledge and experience and to then return to the Oneness of God.
The entities caused the creation of the universe and everything therein and individually choose to inhabit the physical bodies.
The entities may incarnate/reincarnate many times before gravitating back into the Oneness of God.
SPECULATIONS
Speculation: 1 Is God necessary?
Yes!
There has to be a Source from which the "big bang" sprang forth Creating the universe.
Speculation: 2 What is God?
God is the ultimate Cause.
God is the Creative Entity, Energy or Force from which all is derived.
Speculation: 3 Where is God?
God is in a state of awareness that is outside the universe.
God has morphed part of Itself into those entities (spirits) that inhabit the universe and the physical bodies within.
Speculation: 4 Why is God?
God Is because God Is.
God is eternal, existing independent of time or the universe.
Speculation: 5 Is God concerned?
No!
God is not concerned with the daily functioning of the universe or matters within it. That is our domain and subject to our whim.
Speculation: 6 What are we?
We are the spirits (entities) of God.
God morphed into Us and we continue to create according to God's purpose.
Our physical bodies are simply the means we use to experience and function in the physical dimension.
Speculation: 7 Why are we?
We are for the purpose of gaining knowledge and experience.
In the end, we gravitate back into the Oneness of God allowing for the fulfillment of God.
Speculation: 8 Evolution
Evolution is simply a tool of Creation.
The entities often influence the direction of evolution along desired paths.
From my chosen path I stray, Yet my God any'er turns away; For I have learned -- and understand, That where God is -- is where I am!
I am a Christian who believes in God, in the plan and in prayer.
Please take a moment to hear me out before just passing this post by.
While I understand that you have thought a bit about your points, No creator, prayer sucks, tything (NOT TAXES) I think you have to take a more indepth look.
While there is historical evidence for a creator, many of us take this on faith. I do personally, and my searching for scientific proof is directly related to helping others discover more, as well as research for my website. I want to see proof, logical thought out PROOF. Of course it cannot and will not be provided, so I will not change my mind.
Prayer, as I see it, and many other Christians, is an act of faith and will. We believe it is pleasing to God as well as healing emotionally. In turning to God with our prayer we accept that we need help, that we are not perfect, not better than anyone else. Therefore it is also an act requiring humility.
As for the church members being taxed, they aren't. It's called tything first of all. It is how we support our church. It is NOT mandatory in all churches. I give ten percent because it's what I can afford and because I feel a need to make sure there is electricity when I go. I also want heat, as I live in Maine. The pastor could do without a place to live maybe, but we like him, so we help him out. I know he and his wife both do other work, but he can't put in full time hours and still do the work he does for the church. I suppose we could do without feeding the hungry, or providing blankets and clothes. We could um... get rid of the youth pastor so our kids can go find something else to do. Oh and we could get rid of the nursury and kids zone materials. The kids don't need entertainment. Oh, of course, we could stop buying bibles. Do you get the point yet? The tythe goes to all these things and more. As I belong to a CMA church, we also help missionarys and work towards missions trips for our youth.
I know it seems a little like a rant, but seriously, it's not what you make it out to be. I don't go shoving my religion down peoples throats. I tell them what I believe to be true, and if they have more questions I answer them. So please, instead of making everything seem bad without actually undestanding, take a peek, do some research and then talk. Other wise its just poen mouth insert foot.
If you really want to be a "critical thinker" you'll serve yourself well to do a little study on church history. Find out how it started and how it has survived the ages.
You'll soon find that there is much evidence to be examined by a critical thinker like yourself. The God of the Old Testament gave some pretty strong evidence to the Jews about his existense when they were wandering around the desert after being released from bondage in Egypt. This wasn't something that was made up but is historical fact from many sources, not just from Jewish history.
The Old Testament as well as the New Testament are historical documents not just fiction. The veracity of the information has been verified by third party sources and not just people trying to "push their religion" off on you.
Critical thinking observes all known facts like a good reporter would attempt to obtain all the facts before reporting what is known as "truth".
I applaud your decision to search for truth. If you truly want to find it you will do so by your examination of history.
I cannot speak for the Roman Catholic Church but my suggestion would be to try and find someone who desires to give you freedom and not the bondage that comes from a list of do's and don'ts. Real truth gives you guidelines for living a healthy and meaningful life. Real truth is freedom, not bondage. I'm sure you've heard the phrase "and the truth will set you free"?
Deception or the lack of truth by it's very nature is intent on bondage and destruction. That is why deception has the connotation of darkness. It conjures up the thought of dread and death, not life. Truth give life.
Just a few things to think in your search for truth.
As a Christian, when I look around at the world today, I can understand how and why people would question the existence of God. However...it is my belief that God does exist and that He does have a divine plan that includes a life far beyond what we can comprehend. I believe that Heaven is real, I believe that Hell is real; this life is brief, and eternity is forever. I believe that God does care for each and every one of us because He sent His son to die on the cross so that we can be saved. The Bible instructs us to pray and share our joys, our sorrows, and our problems with God and that He will listen and answer, although oftentimes, not exactly the way we had planned. But God is all-knowing and all-seeing and knows what's best for us. Like you, I have seen people use the church and God as simply a way to make money. Much attention is given to this, but little attention is given to all of the good things God does with our offerings. Don't condemn the whole church because of the actions of a few greedy people.
In closing, please keep in mind that God loves you. After all, it was He who created you and wants you to spend eternity in Heaven with Him. Christians aren't perfect; just forgiven.
Firstly, I like how when anyone questions or criticizes religion, they're always dissing, dealing with, and debating over Christianity (or some faction there of), as if it's the only religion in existence.
Secondly, the self-proclaimed critical thinkers who are always trying to debunk religion (by which I mean just Christianity) always think in terms of black and white, as if their are only two choices: A) It's all completely true, or B) it's all complete baloney. The reason for all this close-mindedness is of course the fact that no one forms their own opinions on topics such as these anymore, and instead just picks from one of the popular ones going around. Obviously looking any further into the matter is unnecessary.
I'm of the opinion that yes, there is/was a creator, but he is now, for one reason or another (probably by choice), out of the picture. He created us and everything, and let it and us run our course. His interaction is unnecessary, and anyone who thinks otherwise is either greedy, or greedy.
Lastly, the rest is irrelevant. And George Carlin is pretty cool.
apathetic, welcome to the reason based community!
James53, "If you really want to be a 'critical thinker' you'll serve yourself well to do a little study on church history. "
James, if you were to follow your own advice, you too would probably end up with a paradigm shift in belief.
The history of the church is not the least bit flattering toward the veracity of Christianity, and most scholars of early Christian history come out of Christian theological schools! So, they are hardly biased against Christianity. Even the members of the controversial 'Jesus Seminar' were mostly educated in that fashion.
" Im finally capable of critical thinking towards Christianity. "
Not many people that believe in Christianity wholesale spend a lot of time truly doing this. They look at their religion with biases that they refuse to let go of, biases which are going to prevent them from being truly critical. It's good to see you do this.
I would advise you to continue your research, reading from sources that are both Christian and otherwise. It's all about searching for the truth.
"The history of the church is not the least bit flattering toward the veracity of Christianity,"
Very, very true toadaly.
im sorry you have had bad encounters with religion. im not going to argue the prayer thing because ... honestly ... I have no idea myself lol ...
but the pope is just ONE branch of christianity. I myself am non-denominational
which basically means we dont want to be classified as a "religion" persay ...
my advise would be to not give up on God so quickly ... try other churches ... if you want to .. im not telling you to so please no one start yelling at me for giving a suggestion
good luck :)
I encourage everyone to follow the advice given and study carefully the history of Christianity and all other religions. Using critical thinking, you'll find they are all equally improbable and the evidence is so low-grade as to not even be credible.
As to why everyone picks on Christianity, probably because it is the most dominate religion in the West and has had the greatest influence on our culture up to now.
I don't feel quite so strongly about the subject but I definitely and fully agree with your points. However, I have been unsuccessful in ever convincing someone religious otherwise than their faith. I just wish people would realize what you just said because so many corruptions in our world are due to religion and the struggle to understand it and figure out what's right.
So what are you trying to say? I takes effort to pray and get an answer. It also takes faith? It seems you are looking for an excuse. All I can say is read the Scriptures pray as you do having faith you will get and answer and guess what you will he is there not invisible. Look around you he made it for us give him thanks. Life is not just about you?
Thats why we all have our opinions, You are welcome to yours. I would rather do what I am doing and have the peace I have then give up my beliefs and have the stuff I had before. negativity and slanderous opinions don't change the peace in my heart. In the past they would make me angry and revengful now I just let them belong to whoever has them.
I actually read all that, and I agree with you... that is if your saying people are just shoving religion down our throats... seriously if we want to believe in all that bull then we would. geesh. I find that religion is crap! thats all I have to say...
This is encouraging. I am glad you are actually giving the matter serious thought - so many people don't.
Gone to church all my life and I never knew we payed Taxes in church. . . . .
lol your wierd apathic