Who will go to heaven and hell?

But then it isn’t fair. Why should someone good perish just because they don’t believe in God. So basically what you are telling me is that I can go and kill a lot of people and then I have to truly repent my sins and I will end up in heaven. What is the point then of living a good life then?

How the hell is it not applicable, because you don’t have a good enough answer?

Correct…

He’s saying N/A when he should be saying ‘N/C’

jimahl: I know. I just can’t resist pointing out how patently absurd such views are.

lol

Christianity is ridicoulous and this version of god in all his defined glory doesn’t make any sense at all, why is “hell” even the default?

Hey Avim if god didn’t want Nuclear weapons of mass destruction invented why would he create the means for them to be, knowing before hand humans could come up with such device by using an understanding of the physics and chemistry that god supposedly created?

Further more, why would god create humans capable of”evil”? Don’t say freewill, freewill doesn’t make sense. I mean like, a Labrador retriever is less likly to bite a person then a pitbull is, would this mean the pitbull is sinful or that it’s in his nature? Something to think about about god. God created human nature, it would be his fault, so don’t use a fictitious story to blame it on humans.

*[“Wow. You’d seriously prefer to go back to mud huts and flint arrows?…”]

*Of course not. What I am saying is that science is not the panacea for all of our problems…we have made it the “catch all” remedy for the ills of the world…when, in reality, it does not cure the basic “problem” of man…his SINFUL NATURE! Science can be a good thing if used prudently and in the control of morally responsible men…but because of the degeneracy of the human “heart” …it will destroy him unless God intervenes in the affairs of man.

BOTTOM-LINE: Mankind is headed for Armageddon and there is NOTHING…but NOTHING that man can do to stop it…for the “heart” of man is deceitful and desperately wicked…who can know it?

*[“…But the same advances in technology have also reduced infant mortality to never-before-seen lows, more than doubled our average lifespan, and eradicated or limited diseases that used to kill millions. Most people no longer have to spend most of their time worrying about where their next meal is coming from, or how they’re going to survive the winter. People are healthier, and more productive than ever, because of the progress of the very technologies you decry…”]

*The meager “advances in technology” that you are referring to can be “erased” with the pushing of one “button.”

You are a Utopian dreamer and live in a state of complete DENIAL and IGNORANCE of what is actually happening in the real world. Most of the world is in a complete state of CHAOS: people are STARVING in most parts of the world (I.e., Africa, India, Thailand, Somalia, and in many Asian countries)…Christians in the Sudan are being MURDERED by the hundreds of thousands by marauding bands of Muslim terrorists…the Israelis are being ENCIRCLED by hoards of murdering Arabs who daily lob bombs into small communities of defenseless people…the AIDS epidemic is killing MILLIONS of people in Uganda, Kenya and other African countries…new and more DEADLY diseases are DEVELOPING in Asia and Africa that are threatening the lives of millions of people because we do not have the necessary advances in medicine that keeps pace with these rapidly developing new diseases…Iran is developing a nuclear bomb and their nutty leader threatens to use it as soon as it is developed…India and Pakistan are threatening each other with nuclear bombs…Russia is becoming more hostile towards the United States and is again waging a “cold war” against us…the economies of the “whole” world are collapsing and millions are losing their jobs in the U.S., Europe, and Asia and we are helpless to stop it.

BOTTOM-LINE: The accomplishments of science PALE in comparison to the increasing chaos that is developing among the nations of the world. Man cannot and will not be able to stem the tide of the physical calamities that are the result of his spiritual depravity…until the Messiah (I.e., Jesus) RETURNS as LORD of LORDS and KING of KINGS.

*[“Moreover, you daily take advantage of the very technologies you claim to abhor - including using them to write that message! I find it difficult to believe that anyone would actually believe that technological advance has been a net negative.”]

*Technology in and of itself is not a bad thing. It is the inappropriate use of it by corrupt man that brings the problems that beset mankind. Too, technological advances have not kept pace with the calamities caused by mankind’s spiritual depravity.

Avim

Sorry, but this guy is a complete loon…

Christianity would be tolerable if it weren’t for nut cases like this.

He can’t wait for the rapture so he can see all us sinners be tortured for eternity.

“*That is true…mathematics and the sciences have changed over the course of time…and that is the ACHILLIES heel (I.e., weak spot) of the WISDOM of man. Man’s “progress” is going to be his undoing…it is going to destroy him unless there is some intervention…for he is too evil to handle what he has unleashed.

Man used to kill his enemies one at a time with his bow and arrows…today he is able to kill MILLIONS of his adversaries with the push of a BUTTON…setting off a NUCLEAR bomb. His “progress” has put him in mortal danger of complete annihilation.

BOTTOM-LINE: Progress in the sciences is NOT a PLUS for mankind…nor will it ever be…until there is a CHANGE in man’s NATURE. The Bible best describes the REAL problem of man—he has a HEART problem: “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?’ [Jeremiah 17:9].”

Wow. You’d seriously prefer to go back to mud huts and flint arrows? Yes, improved technology has allowed improved weaponry that has made killing easier. But the same advances in technology have also reduced infant mortality to never-before-seen lows, more than doubled our average lifespan, and eradicated or limited diseases that used to kill millions. Most people no longer have to spend most of their time worrying about where their next meal is coming from, or how they’re going to survive the winter. People are healthier, happier, and more productive than ever, because of the progress of the very technologies you decry.

Moreover, you daily take advantage of the very technologies you claim to abhor - including using them to write that message! I find it difficult to believe that anyone would actually believe that technoloical advance has been a net negative.

*[“…However maths has progressed in the last 2000 years whereas the bible is exactly the same books as back then even though so many things in the world has changed…”]

*That is true…mathematics and the sciences have changed over the course of time…and that is the ACHILLIES heel (I.e., weak spot) of the WISDOM of man. Man’s “progress” is going to be his undoing…it is going to destroy him unless there is some intervention…for he is too evil to handle what he has unleashed.

Man used to kill his enemies one at a time with his bow and arrows…today he is able to kill MILLIONS of his adversaries with the push of a BUTTON…setting off a NUCLEAR bomb. His “progress” has put him in mortal danger of complete annihilation.

BOTTOM-LINE: Progress in the sciences is NOT a PLUS for mankind…nor will it ever be…until there is a CHANGE in man’s NATURE. The Bible best describes the REAL problem of man—he has a HEART problem: “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?’ [Jeremiah 17:9].

*[“…Nothing has been added to the bible to deal with modern issues and circumstances and it has to be interpreted. So you cannot quote it everytime you have an issue.”]

*The Bible has not changed because it does not need to change. It describes the heart condition of man and the remedy for that heart condition. Unless mankind hears what God has to say about his “heart” problem…and obeys what he prescribes for its “cure”…he will perish. The problem with mankind is that they have rejected God’s “cure” for the world’s problems…and have trusted in “other Gods” [I.e., science, money, sex, material pursuits, etc.).

BOTTOM-LINE: The Bible is as up-to-date today as it was 2000 years ago. It will never change because it’s author never changes: “For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed” [Malachi 3:6].

Avim

*[“…He creates a group called sinners…”]

*You are in error. God did not create “a group called sinners”…for He created man in His “own image” [Genesis 1:27] on the sixth day and declared it “very good” [Genesis 1:31}. Man (Adam) BECAME a sinner when he DISOBEYED God…and ate of the forbidden fruit in the midst of the garden [Genesis 3:6].

*[“…puts everyone in it & we must redeem ourselves from some sin we didn’t even commit because some woman ate the ‘forbidden fruit’…”]

*Not so. Adam and his wife (Eve) put themselves in the “group” called sinners by WILFULLY disobeying God. In point of fact, the woman (Eve) bought the story that the Serpent told her (I.e., that “your eyes shall be opened and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil” [Genesis 3:5] ). She thought that her eyes would be “opened” (I.e., she would be made “wise”) and become a goddess, knowing good and evil [Genesis 3:6].

God told Adam: “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die” [Genesis 2:17]…and they died SPIRITUALLY that very day (I.e., they became sinners the moment they ate of the forbidden fruit)…and were expelled from the garden and died as the LORD God said they would [Genesis 3:19].

*[“Before you say ‘Well God didn’t make evil’…Yes he did, he even states so…Isaiah 45:7 and Lamantations 3:38…”]

*Again you do err…the scripture that you cite says the following: “I form the LIGHT, and create DARKNESS: I make PEACE, and create EVIL: I the LORD do all these things” [Isaiah 45:7]. Notice what the LORD God is saying here…He creates two MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE conditions [I.e., LIGHT (life) and DARKNESS (death)]…and PEACE (I.e., wholeness and well-being) and CALAMITY [I.e., not “evil” as in the KJV; cf. Amos 3:6]—comes from God. As the sovereign LORD of the universe He can do everything.

*[“for the ‘rest of you’…”]

*N/A

Avim

*[“I don’t think your redefinition of ‘good’ matches what the rest of us perceive…”]

*Anachrid:

The definition of what is “good” is NOT mine…it is the definition of God and I only quoted His definition from the Bible. And, of course, you are correct that it “doesn’t match” what the rest of you perceive…for the “rest of you” REJECT the God of the Bible and have set up your own gods…and it is “the rest of you” who REDEFINE what is “good” and what is “bad” to justify your defiance of Him and His standards.

*[“…I certainly don’t think that a born-again christian ex-ax-murderer is better than someone who spends their lives selflessly helping others…”]

*In his “flesh” the born-again Christian, who is an ex-ax-murderer, is certainly NOT better than anyone else…and, if he is guilty, he should be put to death like everyone else. However, in his “spirit,” a truly “born-again” Christian, who is an ex-ax-murderer, IS better…for he is declared righteous in the eyes of God through Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour. The “born-again” Christian who is an ex-ax-murderer is a “new creature” in Christ: “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” [2 Corinthians 5:17]. Too, the truly “born-again” Christian [I.e., the New Creature in Christ] is justified by the grace of God which results in a “changed” style of life: “And that He died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them, and rose again” [2 Corinthians 5:15].

Your “good man” who selflessly helps others but rejects God is NOT a “good man” in the eyes of the God he has rejected…and he will perish in Hell for the reasons that I have given in a previous post.. Nothing that this “good man” does can merit any righteousness before God…for God regards this “good mans’” deeds as “filthy rags” [Isaiah 64:6].

*[“…and I’m disappointed that anyone would think otherwise, to be honest.”]

*N/A

Avim

*[“Anachnid, you are spinning your wheels here. He is a thumper of the highest degree. ..”]

*Thank you. I consider that a compliment even if you did not intend it to be so.

*{‘…He can not answer any question about the logic of his beliefs without bringing scripture into it. His mind is closed to any original thoughts. He is completely controlled, and dogma is his only defense.”]

*I am gratified that you have taken the time to question the logic of my belief system…and I shall endeavor to enlighten you as to why I believe as I do…even though you may not agree with my “logic” in doing so…so let us begin.

The easy thing to do would be to forget the theological apologetics altogether or to decide what to believe on a superficial or subjective basis. The scripture exhorts the Christian to do neither but to “test everything.” Christianity must not promote or exalt “blind” faith. As Scripture records, God Himself offered substantiating evidence when His servants and spokesmen needed reassurance of His Word’s trustworthiness..God showed people He had the power to fulfill His promises. We see examples stretching from Genesis to Revelation…including Moses’ “multipurpose” rod and Jesus’ raising of the dead. We must not seek absolute proof…for such proof is neither possible nor essential…for God always leaves room for faith’s exercise. However, that being said, we are called to test matters that are testable…and the certainty of the results should determine the certainty of our assertions and of our decisions based on them.

Determining what kind of tests to apply may not be easy…for sometimes we can see a clearly relevant biblical test case, and sometimes we cannot.

The foundation of all natural sciences (I.e., physics, quantum mechanics, chemistry, biology, medicine, astronomy, etc.) is mathematics. Likewise…the foundation of all Christian theology is the Scripture (I.e., the Word of God). The natural sciences and Christian theology clash because the data from natural testing is observable…and only a portion of theological beliefs are…because the two operate in different and mutually exclusive dimensions…one material and the other immaterial. The natural sciences require no faith…only observation. The Christian belief system requires faith…for observation is not possible.

So then…the question is: What is faith? “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen” [Hebrews 11:1]. Our faith then…gives REALITY and PROOF of things UNSEEN…treating them as if they were already objects of SIGHT rather than of HOPE.

I hope that helps…

Avim

Say whatever you want, and I know whatever I think or know internally will not connect with most people here.

That person here who says that he/she believes in God but not hell…interesting. Why do you believe in God? Why don’t you believe in hell?

The human opinion would be that the guy who killed all of those people should not go to heaven no matter what. The idea that he can still get into heaven is NOT a man made idea. What man in his so-called right mind would come up with that. A man didn’t. God believes and knows that he should get all the praise. Jesus is worthy to be praised! That’s why heaven and hell is based on people who follow Jesus (heaven) and those who reject Jesus (hell). It’s not based on works at all. The only time you will be judged by your works is on judgment day. Followers will receive their various rewards. Non believers will be judged according to their works. Is there still a chance that one of these people can still get in? That I’m not really sure of, but personally I didn’t want there to be any doubt of me going to be with Jesus.

Say whatever you want, and I know whatever I think or know internally will not connect with most people here.

That person here who says that he/she believes in God but not hell…interesting. Why do you believe in God? Why don’t you believe in hell?

The human opinion would be that the guy who killed all of those people should not go to heaven no matter what. The idea that he can still get into heaven is NOT a man made idea. What man in his so-called right mind would come up with that. A man didn’t. God believes and knows that he should get all the praise. Jesus is worthy to be praised! That’s why heaven and hell is based on people who follow Jesus (heaven) and those who reject Jesus (hell). It’s not based on works at all. The only time you will be judged by your works is on judgment day. Followers will receive their various rewards. Non believers will be judged according to their works. Is there still a chance that one of these people can still get in? That I’m not really sure of, but personally I didn’t want there to be any doubt of me going to be with Jesus.

Say whatever you want, and I know whatever I think or know internally will not connect with most people here.

That person here who says that he/she believes in God but not hell…interesting. Why do you believe in God? Why don’t you believe in hell?

The human opinion would be that the guy who killed all of those people should not go to heaven no matter what. The idea that he can still get into heaven is NOT a man made idea. What man in his so-called right mind would come up with that. A man didn’t. God believes and knows that he should get all the praise. Jesus is worthy to be praised! That’s why heaven and hell is based on people who follow Jesus (heaven) and those who reject Jesus (hell). It’s not based on works at all. The only time you will be judged by your works is on judgment day. Followers will receive their various rewards. Non believers will be judged according to their works. Is there still a chance that one of these people can still get in? That I’m not really sure of, but personally I didn’t want there to be any doubt of me going to be with Jesus.

The thing is both men have sinned against G-d, no man is without sin. For example G-d said you shouldnt lie, then one man tells another a lie. That is a sin. If G-d said even if you think about sin, it is considered a sin against G-d. So even if you havent killed anyone, according to G-d you did it in your heart. Another sin. The point is that no one is perfect. Now when you compare it to the man who has blown up 10000 people it seems small. G-d promised however that all who ask shall be forgiven. They shall be made new. One man asked G-d to clean him, the other did not so there was no place for him.
Yes it is difficult to understand but G-d set rules, he loves both men the same. He made the invetation, gave it to both men, only one showed up. It is not G-d that keeps you from getting into heaven, it is yourself.

*Avim Basically: 1)Everything in existence, including man(duh) 2”He creates a group called sinners 3)puts everyone in it & we must redeem ourselves from some sin we didn’t even commit because some woman ate the “forbidden fruit” (Which God made, & made it in their reach not to mention). So we have to seek redemption from God because he couldn’t forgive Adam & Eve? that’s ridicules. He creates evil then punishes that of his own creation. Before you say “Well God didn’t make evil” Yes he did, he even states so

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” ~*~Isaiah 45:7 & Lam3:38

for the “rest of you” REJECT the God of the Bible and have set up your own gods Well aren’t you the one to talk there sparky! The idea of a male God originated when primitive men dressed as animals & hunted, that’s where the male god originated. Your “one true” god was made from an Egyptian man who COMBINED all other aspects of the gods & goddesses he worshiped & declared it the “one true” god.

“*The meager “advances in technology” that you are referring to can be “erased” with the pushing of one “button.””

Totally irrelevant. The fact that they can go away doesn’t mean we’re not better off for having them. And I would hardly call doubling human lifespan, eradicating diseases and reducing infant mortality by orders of magnitude ‘meager’.

“You are a Utopian dreamer and live in a state of complete DENIAL and IGNORANCE of what is actually happening in the real world.”

You base this on what? I never denied that bad things happen - I simply pointed out that you can’t criticize science for how it’s misused without also crediting it for the incredible improvements to human life that it’s created at the same time.

You go on about the terrible state the world is in, but I challenge you to find any point in history where people are better off than they are now. There’s a long way to go, yes, but things are getting better, not worse - and you have science, not religion to thank for it.

As far as my beliefs go, I think they would both go to Heaven. I don’t believe that God is so punishing that he wouldn’t let someone who was a really good person who happened to not believe in God into Heaven. Just MY beliefs.

Well, only a few “religions” adhere to the policy that even last minute reborn-ness will get ya thru the pearly gates no matter how bad your behavior…frankly, I’ll follow the ones that believe good works will get you there…

Since it’s religion, you can believe whatever you like… ;)

p

*[“Christianity is ridicoulous and this version…blame it on humans.”]

*N/A

Avim

Besides I live in Africa, that bad place full of all kinds of weird virusses and I’m starving to death right now, thats why I’m sitting on the internet and not out foraging for food. Lol, come on Avim, Africa is a perfectly fine country to be in. Don’t talk about something you don’t know about.

*[“But then it isn’t fair…”]

*You are not God…so you don’t get to decide what is fair and what isn’t.

*[“…Why should someone good perish just because they don’t believe in God…”]

*Because the “good someone” that you are talking about is NOT “good” at all: (1)We are ALL born sinners and, as such, will perish if our sins are not forgiven: “Behold, I was shapen on INIQUITY, and in SIN did my mother conceive me” [Psalm 51:5]…”For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” [Romans 3:23]…”As it is written, there is NONE righteous, no, NOT ONE: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God” [Romans 3:10-11]. (2) None of the things that your “good someone” has done has any merit with God because he is a sinner who REJECTS God in his life and, as such, is UNRIGHTEOUS in the eyes of the God that he REJECTS…and, as a consequence, anything that he has done or will ever do “are as FILTHY rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away” [Isaiah 64:6]. (3) BOTTOM-LINE: Your friend is NOT “good”…he is an unrepentant sinner who rejects God…and all of his self-righteousness are as “filthy rags” before our righteous God with which we have to do.

Avim

yeah, it’s fact according to bible thumpers. That’s as screwy as a serial killer converting the last few days of his life, gettin gall his sins “cleared” up & going ot heaven & a nun dedicatn gher entire life to Jesus & the bible, yet doubts it for the last few minuest of her life then goes to hell. screwy, but the bible thumpers thin kthat

lol… bless you arachnid :-)

Avim

The author of the bible is not God, the bible has many authors which have written it based on their experiences with God. The author of the bible is not God. If progress is so bad…what the hell are you doing on the internet? Aren’t you helping towards your own demise then?

The killer who lived his entire life against god, repents in jail and goes to heaven.

The man who helps others, is unselfish, honors his parents, doesn’t lie cheat or steal and who has lived his entire life doing good, but doesn’t believe in god, goes to hell.

Yep, sounds fair to me.

How the hell is it not applicable, because you don’t have a good enough answer?

This is exactly the way they brainwash people. Because if belief is not a requirement for entrance into heaven, then what difference does it make if you don’t follow their religion? If the only way to heaven is to believe, then you are risking heaven if you don’t. If they ever admiited that just being a good person is all you need to get in, and belief is not required, then church memberships would be completely decimated in a short time.

Why would god be so vain that he requires people to believe in him? Doesn’t sound like a perfect being to me. Sound like a pretty evil, egotistical bastard to me.

Avim…

I agree with you, the scripture is the basis of Christianity like Maths is the basis of science. However maths has progressed in the last 2000 years whereas the bible is exactly the same books as back then even though so many things in the world has changed. Nothing has been added to the bible to deal with modern issues and circumstances and it has to be interpreted. So you cannot quote it everytime you have an issue.

avim here really seems to be one of the more thumperish types. He can give amblessed a run for his money.

It is all about mind control, and his mind is completely controlled.

Without the requirement of belief and worship, a church becomes irrelevant. It seem some are not going to let that happen, so they are stepping it up a notch. Not only do you have to believe, you have to be “born again”. Whatever the hell that means…

Mindless lemmings…

There have been 2500 differnet prophesies listed in the Bible and 2000 have come true as backed by scientific and historical references.

Bullsh!t… Show me one…

Just be careful what you think isnt real before its too late.

What do I need to be careful about? That this loving god of your will torture me for eternity because I couldn’t believe such a fantastic tale with no evidence to support it? If that is the case, I would rather burn in hell than live eternity having to worship such a cruel egotistical SOB.

I’m reminded of the two other ment hat dies on crosses next to Jesus. One asked for forgiveness and Jesus told him he would join him in heaven. I believe this was God’s way to show that all sin can be forgiven if you truly accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Too many times people try to understand God when he has made it clear in scripture that His ways are not our ways. It saddens me the way Christianity is talked about in a negative way in this post. There have been 2500 differnet prophesies listed in the Bible and 2000 have come true as backed by scientific and historical references. Just be careful what you think isnt real before its too late.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 you believe in God or you dont, like marriage, its not a conditional love, you may believe in God and know there’s heaven and hell doesnt mean you’re a christian, I know it all exists, but im not ready for the responsibility, im just a kid. but you dont get to make your own exceptions to what God says, you could be the most generous man on Earth, but if you dont trust and believe and have faith in God in Jesus, you will not make it into Heaven. But your life can turn around at any second and be saved, like the first guy, but you may also die at any moment for no apparent reason, so you always want to be ready, no matter what. I hope I helped

The very fact that your god’s idea of what consitutes “being good” is so totally at odds with what any reasonable person perceives as good should prompt any thinking person to reconsider allegiance to, or belief in, any creature so narcissistic and uncaring.

What would you rather: Share an ‘afterlife’ with people defined by their qualities and how they acted towards their fellow man, or share it with people defined only by their obedience to an invisible, unproveable, vengeful being who tortures all his detractors for all eternity?

According to Christianity the first will go to heaven. The 2nd to hell cause the only unforgivable is denying God. This is one of many aspects of Christianity that doesn’t make since. The first could have killed as many people as possible and still would have made it to heaven.

The truth is that neither heaven or hell really exist. So neither will enter heaven.

“Man (Adam) BECAME a sinner when he DISOBEYED God…and ate of the forbidden fruit in the midst of the garden”

God, being omnipotent, however, must have known that man, created in this fashion, and presented with such a situation, would react by doing exactly this. So God set up all the initial conditions, knowing exactly what would happen, and then blamed man when it happened the way he knew it would? Not just blamed him, but punished every subsequent generation for the rest of eternity? If anyone else did something like that, ‘fair’ and ‘just’ would be the last labels anyone would attribute to them.

Also, remember that if the apple gave knowledge of good and evil, then before eating it, man had no conception of good and evil, so would have had no way to know that eating it was ‘bad’.

This is one of many reasons why the Bible is NOT believable…

Mormon’s = Heaven

That is why I believe in God but not in hell or the bible.

okay, first off; it is written that ALL sins are the same and will have the same punishment. and everyone sins, and falls short of the glorry of God. so the man who lived his life wonderfuly and was nice to everyone, had to at some point do something sinful ( it could of just been murader of the heart-not loving your nieghbor or something that in our human and out of wack world is small), and to God his sin is the exact same size or amount of wrongness as the man who commited murder. so in conclusion they are both sinners. But if you repet from your sins and aske for Gods mercy and forgiveness he will never with hold his love and compassion. It is also written that the ONLY unforgiveable sin is the sin of denial or blatonly turning away from God knowing about his love for you. the man who killed all those people may have sinn but he realized his sins were wrong and repented asking forgiveness from God, but the man who lived a wonderful life without God is still a sinner, and every sinner need forgiveness. With out god in you liife there is no forgiveness. it is also written in the boook of Matthew not to judge others on what they have done in the world of man but on how he has lived his life in God.

I really feel sorry for everyone who doesnt get this concept and I encouage you all to take a deeper look into what the bible has to say. you may find that there is a lot more to it that when you read the WORD truely will make sense.

Just becasue you dont believe in god you shudnt go to hell. you can be a nice person as you showed above without believing in God. you shouldnt have to base your life around beliveing in god you should just be the best version of urself that you possibly can x

This is why I HATE the Christian relgion - because according to the bible, since the first man who kills 10,000 people asked for forgiveness, he is supposed to go to Heaven.

While the man who has lived his life so wonderfully and helped so many people - is supposed to go to hell because he did no believe in God.

Absolutely Ridiculous.

The first man that accepted god into his life will go to heaven.

The other man will not. apparently hasn’t accepted god into his life.

So yeah, I’m agnostic, I prefer to not be anything right now. Doesn’t mean I don’t believe. And Yeah, If I died right now, I’d go to hell. Eventually I’ll figure it out, just not right now. :)

“This is not my opinion, it is what God says in His word.”

It IS only your opinion that these are actually the word of god. How could you possibly KNOW that it is? And do you believe everything you read?

arachnid, you are spinning your wheels here. He is a thumper of the highest degree. He can not answer any question about the logic of his beliefs without bring scripture into it. His mind is closed to any original thoughts. He is completely controlled, and dogma is his only defense.

I believ in cases like that the 1st man will go 2 heaven and the second ma will just get another chance I believe their is a more complex system then we can comprehend I believe that heaven hell is simply a state of mind and if you do believe in it you will bjudged by GOD if you have another reigion like buddah or hindu you will b reincarnated or wutever if your atheist you will simply rot in the ground

“The human opinion would be that the guy who killed all of those people should not go to heaven no matter what. The idea that he can still get into heaven is NOT a man made idea. What man in his so-called right mind would come up with that. A man didn’t. God believes and knows that he should get all the praise.”

I’m sorry, is your argument basically “this idea is so crazy, only God could have thought it up”?

“it is written that ALL sins are the same and will have the same punishment. and everyone sins, […], and to God his sin is the exact same size or amount of wrongness as the man who commited murder.”

We all know that’s the doctrine, as it’s claimed. Our point is: Isn’t this totally absurd? How could it possibly be just that a serial murderer gets off scott free because he’s sorry, while someone who did nothing but make the world a better place gets tortured eternally for not believing in something he had no evidence of, and may never have even heard of in the first place?

For that matter, how can eternal torture be a justified punishment for any crime committed in a mortal lifetime?

ok. according to what I’ve been taught,you can’t go to heaven unless you have a personal relationship with jesus christ. I don’t remeber where this is from but:”I am the way,the truth and the life,NO ONE comes to the father except through me.” so,The first guy would go to heaven,and the second guy won’t. god is willing to forgive anything you or anyone else does,if they except him,and truly believe in him. so the first guy would go to heaven and the other guy,even though he was a nice guy,he’s going to hell.

                           hope I helped

I’ve long thought that even if heaven and hell did exist, the company in hell would be much better, for the exact reasons you outlined.

*[“…What are your opinions on this?”]

*Why are you asking such a question of us when you could go straight to the highest authority Himself [I.e., Jesus Christ] and get the answer? Here’s is what He said: (1) “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God” [John 3:3]…and again (2) “Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins” [John 8:23-24].

From what you told us, it is hard to tell if the FIRST man was saved. You said he starts to believe in God…was sorry for his sins and asks God to forgive his sins…and starts to love all those around him. This does NOT mean that he has had a truly “born again” experience even though it was an emotional one…especially knowing that he was going to die as punishment for his crime. a lot of men on death row “feel sorry” for their sins…love all their cellmates and ask God to forgive their sins…but this does NOT mean that they have been “born again.”

To be saved (that is, to have a true “born again” experience)…a person must see himself for what he really is…a sinner…”For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” [Romans 3:23]. They must REPENT (turn away from their sins). Repentance is not making a resolution to do better and it is not conviction (sorrow) of sin…for a person can be convinced that he is wrong and still not repent. Repentance is a CHANGE of mind…a CHANGE of heart…and it results in a CHANGE of action [Acts 3:19, 20;Isaiah 55:7].

Too, a person must trust in the COMPLETED WORK that Jesus Christ accomplished FOR them on the cross…that He TOOK THEIR PLACE on the cross…died for THEIR sins (although He never sinned) and was RESURRECTED BODILY from the dead [Romans 10:8-11;Hebrews 10:10-13].

Salvation is a GIFT of God and they cannot EARN it by their good works [Ephesians 2:8,9]. God gives it to them FREE when they place our FAITH in the COMPLETED work of the Lord Jesus Christ as the SATISFACTION (or payment) for their sins [Romans 6:23]. He died as their SUBSTITUTE and took the PUNISHMENT for THEIR sins upon Himself (even though He never sinned) and became THEIR SACRIFICE to satisfy the righteousness required by God [1 John 2:2].

Now because salvation is a GIFT that God offers them freely…they must RECEIVE it (Revelations 3:20;John 1:12,13) to be saved…that is, they must reach out in faith and receive the GIFT of God (Jesus Christ).

To be saved from the consequences of their sins they must now receive Jesus Christ (who is God’s GIFT to them) PERSONALLY as their Lord and Saviour by faith and trust in His COMPLETED work for them on Calvary’s cross.

Rejection of God’s provision of salvation THROUGH the Lord Jesus Christ is eternal DEATH in HELL [1 John 5:10-13]. This is the choice EVERY person has to make…for Jesus Christ is the ONLY Saviour for sinful man.

I cannot determine if the FIRST man had a truly “born again” experience…only he and God know that…for only God knows his heart. However, I know of a CERTAINTY that the SECOND man was NOT saved and will perish in HELL for He believed NOT that Jesus Christ is the Messiah Saviour [1 John 5:10-13].

Avim

I have a question for your question in the first paragraph is the man getting baptized or was he baptized to begin with? If so I believe what you said was true he will most likely go to Heaven and the last one will most likely go to Hell.

You are not God…so you don’t get to decide what is fair and what isn’t.You are not God…so you don’t get to decide what is fair and what isn’t.

Your friend is NOT “good”…he is an unrepentant sinner who rejects God…and all of his self-righteousness are as “filthy rags” before our righteous God with which we have to do.

You are contradicting yourself because you are judging whether this person is good.

The nice people go to heavan, and the cruel, selfish, hating person who doesn’t love anyone, including there parents will burn in hell!

If you kissed a girl and you liked it, you are not going to hell! The church who said that was very religious and was probable racist against “bisexuals and lesbians” girls do kiss other girls and like it!!!

And the whole, masturbation sends you to hell thing, so not true!!! Masturbation is healthy according to that 80’s show Dr. Ruth! 3-4 times a day is actually good…eww!

personally I HATE this part of the majority of religion its so…well…wrong believe in god ( not buddah, hindu gods, etc. ) or you will go to hell you can be a great person but if you are not a believer in God then you will face reribution theres other issues too but too many to begin to mention right now lol …wtf?!

It’s obvious from reading the entire Bible that heaven and hell are manmade concepts. The Bible is vague about what they are supposed to be, and about who will actually go where, at what time. It’s not even worth paying attention to.

im catholic but I kindaaa believe that even if you dont believe in god, but you are a good person, you’ll go to heaven. I don’t know thats just me I cant really see god punishing someone for being a good person