"I am a Goth who cannot establish claims of an advanced age, although you cannot disregard of the Elder Goths, as they provide the foundation of the culture due to their unwavering endurance, although 'foundation' is apparent, yet is unfortunately quite deficient irrespective of those who are willing to preserve of it. I became a Goth and modified my appearance merely 5 years ago, and I am quite content with this manner of being. It is assumed that discrimination against Goths is merely a trivial and humorous matter, although it is certainly not, and a genuine Goth would remain a Goth for the duration of his or her existence, and continue to maintain the appearance as well. I cannot possibly comprehend why it is that Goth is perceived of as some sort of personal choice, rather than a source of enlightenment and legitimate belief system that people are actually devoted to, and that Goths, on the condition that they wish to cease experiencing prejudice and intolerance, should simply revert to their previous beliefs and discard of their 'Gothdom,' despite the fact that Goth is similiar to a religion in numerous respects, and is definitely a valid culture, although unfortunately is not very well received by the Dominant Culture and is therefore perceived as something done in jest and insincerity a.k.a. a 'phase.' When Goths complain they are simply considered 'angsty' rather than possessing a legitimate purpose for experiencing such emotions in relation to the circumstances. Haven't the majority of non-Goths ever conceived of why it is that despite an unreasonable amount of discrimination that Goths confront daily they continue to espouse the beliefs and dress in black and apply 'unconventional' makeup?
I am cognizant of the fact that Goths are not of your kind. We do not adhere to identical or even similar values, yet we simply desire peace. We are a pacifistic community and therefore could never invoke this unjust treatment upon ourselves. My intention is not to convert you to my ways - I simply desire your patience in reading this. I wish to merit your company and walk amongst your kind without the lingering shame concerning who I am. I wish to accomplish what you accomplish, to simply arrive within a public location without being ridiculed. I myself possess numerous aspirations that I am unfortunately unable to achieve due to the conservative society declining my offers of contributing to civilization. Yet it is not I who shuns them in return, as certain Goths do, rather, I strive for the common good. I would not refrain from assisting others when my assistance is needed. I recognize morals and principals, and attempt to do what is ethical in any given situation. I may perceive of such matters in a manner which is contrasting to society, yet this desire is what all human beings share to a certain extent. It is inherent within us all, some more so than others.
I must request something of you and I shall remain grateful up to the interval of time by which I cease existing and perhaps beyond that. Distribute the information pertaining to Goth being a genuine culture. Endorse my attempts to produce increasing awareness of this matter which is significant to me. I am simply addressing what should have been addressed prior to when I myself had expressed it. There are numerous Goths of which are often prepared to address this matter although unfortunately do not. It is evident that Goths would prefer establishing the Gothic Culture, although to do this they must be willing to devote their time and effort into achieving it. Yet there is an utter lack of regard for such an important matter which indicates their lack of sincere devotion. I often succumb to a gradual condition of melancholy as I imagine the potential which is inherent within Goth that will never be recognized due to the so-called 'adherents' themselves contributing to the very death of Goth. It is as if Gothic people wish to be discriminated against, as they are not attempting to acquire rights or perhaps influence. This persecution complex is making them unsuccessful, and they must discard of it. Dedication of adherents is what will prove to be advantageous, and I am certain if Goths simply become more outspoken when pertaining to issues involving their culture and also remain committed there will be no concern of Goth ceasing to exist within the future.
The perception of Goth as some sort of social scene apparently does not do it justice. Goth is an anomaly of what it should be, as it is lacking foundation -- as I had mentioned previously. The 'Elder Goths' are often in their 20s, and it appears as though Goth is merely an extension of their youth that they are unwilling to abandon, which absolutely appalls me. The entire concept of 'youth subcultures' appalls me as well. If you integrate yourself into a culture or subculture for a purpose, why should a person's age automatically disqualify such a person from participating? Especially when there are millions of people involved worldwide rather than it being confined to a specific high school (which therefore WOULD meet the requirements essential to being considered an adolescent-oriented subculture). There is nothing specifically youth-oriented about Goth. Goths are not expected to experience antipathy towards 'preps' (who most often detest such a label and do not wish to be associated with it) and celebrate teen angst, as certain non-Goths would contend. The Gothic genre of music itself does not convey to others the inherent lack of maturity of the enthusiasts. Therefore it should be assumed that Goth is reserved for simply those who identify with it, irrespective of age.
Goth is certainly not exactly what would be considered a religion in precise terms, although it could DEFINITELY be referred to as a culture, belief system, and spiritual path. For the majority of Goths who do not place emphasis on committment, there are also quite a few who do, including myself, yet these are seldom acknowledged, which is simply awful. I am passionate as an adherent of this specific belief system, and therefore I rigidly advocate the addition of standards which permit no deviation. Therefore only the most devoted of adherents will possess the honor with which to proclaim themselves as adherents. Goths may be tolerant of others, although this is no reason to obnubilate what the term Goth is intended to refer to. After all, people are considered 'poseurs' anyhow, despite the lack of definitive standards, and as a result they should therefore be able to understand WHY others are referencing them in such a disparaging manner. The imposition of standards would eliminate confusion, although it would require the assistance of the indispensible members of the Gothic community, rather than the efforts of one person, and that is what would appear to be quite challenging, especially since Goths are distributed throughout the world, rather than within a distinct location, and also because Goths are individuals who are capable of making well-formulated decisions, implying that their ideas and my ideas may not come into accord. They may perhaps be utterly opposed to the mere consideration of Goth becoming established. This is what I am dreadful of.
I wish to establish a distinct unit within Goth. It shall be appreciated, and eventually Goth shall no longer be considered a 'scene' in entirety and shall acquire hate crime legislation within locations where it had not previously been conceived of. I am a genuine, sincere Gothic person and this will never change. I do not advocate Goths who modify themselves in favor of immersing themselves into a 'conservative' setting or obtaining employment. Corporate Goths could NEVER be regarded as Goths, in my opinion, for they lack the ability to fight resolutely for their legal rights and protection and would simply prefer what is less difficult, although can such people honestly examine themselves and infer that they are genuine? 'Corporate Goth' is a loathesome trend reserved for the weak, for those who are unwilling to endure what it is that the non-Goths, in their hostility, offer them. It merely provides a cop-out for those who are apparently not dedicated enough to occupy their time with protesting for rights which ensure that employment will be received eventually. These ideas which I have produced may appear to be radical in nature, although would not the adherents of a specific theology acknowledge the circumstances and strive vigorously against them? Goths are a marginalized culture, and there is no alternate manner of existing for them. Goth is apparently not some preposterous trend, replete with almost farcical lubrigiousity. And there ARE indeed an entire plethora of Goths exterior to the age bracket most frequently mentioned and should be revered for the commitment they have demonstrated without reserve, although unfortunately are regarded as 'immature' and it is almost inconceivable in the minds of the Others that one would maintain his or her position as a Goth beyond the age of 30, and those which do so are certainly regarded as being deficient in judgment.
I do not comprehend what it is that scenes provide for others in addition to a false, perhaps contrived, identity. You can most certainly imagine the sense of security a scene can offer, although what occurs for such individuals when it is that the scene expires due to excessive media exploitation or perhaps additional factors? Music scenes are quite susceptible to this, and therefore others should be cognizant of the fact that involvement practically guarantees the intrusion of the media upon their scene as corporations such as MTV are dedicated to attempting to locate what appeals to the 'trendy' variety and therefore shall eventually discover it. It is inevitable, and as a result one should merely engage him or her self into a scene if it is expected to be a temporary source of amusement for such a person. Although scenes are not necessarily particularly amusing due to elitism and persistent quarrelling. Attempting to contrive yourself in a manner which is exclusively intended to be distinct from the predominant current of thought is absurd. Avoiding what is mainstream deliberately is perceived of as 'cool' within scenes and as a result how ever could one regard others which are engaged within a scene as concerned with anything other than trivialities? The moment a scene receives a slight bit of interest from the media those supposed 'indispensible' members abandon the values which were essential to it and perhaps embrace the ideals of another.
I personally believe that Goths are a cultural minority which emphasizes pacifism, tolerance, introspection, spirituality, morality, intellectualism, aesthetics, individualism, creativity, high-brow culture, philosophy, as well as various beliefs, values, opinions, and ideas in response to such matters. Goths should often detest unreasonable social conventions to an intense degree, and should typically be characterized as indignant and engage in 'insubordinate' conduct rather than remain in accordance with standards of which are regarded as inconceivable to abide by, although it is evidently to prevent injustice on their behalf when supposed restrictions can easily be obnubilated with oppression. It is my form of Goth which shall continue to exist when this ludicrous social and music scene ceases. We are the minority, yet we shall function as preservers of an immortal culture. We must provide the foundation despite the fact that we do not appear to maintain influence. You must retain the fact that we are here, and we are dedicated and quite conservative (although not in relation to non-Gothic conservatives). When the youth are no longer engaged in Goth, it shall remain anyhow.
This is my vision of Goth - although there are many additional matters which require discussion pertaining to what exactly Goth is, and they shall certainly be addressed in due time. Goth is not an adolescent culture, at least, not the form I adhere to. Wikipedia does not even supply information pertaining to this unit, on the contrary, merely the unit I deviate from, although I am considering making revisions. For me, it is practically a religion, although I simply consider it a culture. The beliefs are not well established, yet certainly those within the notorious 'scene' are of a distinct unit to my obscure belief system, spiritual path, culture, and philosophy -- and it is indeed established to an extent which supersedes the form of Goth responsible for youthful identity-seeking practices.
Goths should certainly consider the prevaling standards of beauty within the predominant current of thought to be absolutely outrageous. As a result, there should be no 'ugly.' All body types should be accepted as well as other physical differences. Those who are simply a bit peculiar in their thought processes and, as a result, are regarded unfavorably, should also be permitted to seek refuge within the culture. Magazines such as Gothic Beauty had immediately repulsed me, as every model had adhered to identical standards of beauty as that of the mainstream, yet were simply alternative in their mode of dress. These magazines should be deliberately avoided by ALL Goths.
Sexuality should remain a topic of concern for Goths. Gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgendered people, those who practice BDSM as well as simply standard sex...should continue to be accepted, which, in my opinion, Goths are doing quite well with.
In society, a darker mindset is discouraged, although Goths should understand that what is supposedly 'insane' behavior is actually the result of suppressed dark thoughts. Goths should assume that if darkness is expressed through art or poetry or there are simply more discussions regarding it, there will be no pent up rage or frustration which eventually results in destructive outbursts. This does not necessarily imply that Goths should merely concentrate on their darker nature, rather, they should simply emphasize it more, especially through aesthetics and creative pursuits, and Goths are continuing to maintain this as well. 'Darkness' itself is NOT contrary to morality, as it is simply an essential characteristic within us all which must be embraced. THAT is an accurate definition of a Gothic belief, I suppose.
I personally believe the more unconventional you appear to be, the more dedicated you are. Goth is certainly not about moderation, after all. Thick makeup, skulls, chains, spikes, piercings, and colored hair are, in my opinion, very beautiful as well as convey a willingness to be Gothic despite persecution and hardships. Conventional Goths should always remain quite 'extreme' in appearance and being this way shall also promote their self-expression, while moderation restricts it to merely being 'edgy,' and, if they are young, perhaps 'cool.' This is our cultural attire, and the aspects which shall most likely not be infultrated into society should be preserved, such as the makeup -- which far exceeds 'conventional' limits, and as a result will always be considered 'distasteful.'
Goth is NOT what it is that others are contriving into some contemporary adolescent-oriented trend. Goth is timeless, due to the fact that it emphasizes a classical, sophisticated manner of living. Victorianism and Romanticism are ardently embraced, as are animal rights and environmentalism in numerous instances. Self-advocacy within Goth should be requisite up to the interval of time of which we acquire influence, and the majority of countries recognize us as a cultural entity possessing authority. I implore upon you all to assist me in establishing the Gothic Culture as a genuine culture or perhaps spiritual path, rather than a diminishing adolescent trend."
I am she who is responsible for producing this. You may encounter it on numerous websites, occasionally slightly edited. My name is Courtney Weidow. I am 16 years of age and am the Founder of this distinct culture. I am desiring the assistance of others in distributing information pertaining to it's existence, which is practically unrecognized. I shall always forward this to others in anticipation of proceeding displays of activism or espousal of such beliefs.
Ok I am going to say this now, you are 16 maybe 17, you are not all knowing, and you are not a so called Gothic Elder, you are a person who believes they are better then the rest, therefore you deserve to be worshipped. Being gothic, you are gothic, and that's that. You don't get different names for how long you are goth. Plus, if you really want to get down to it, every damn goth is different. Some believe more of vampires, and prefore vampirism. Some believe in Satan, and prefore satanism. Some just believe in god, and well are christian or catholic, and some just plain old don't give a damn. The thing is, goths are different, everyone of us. Me have are own ways, and because of people who claim to be goth, we have so much damn drama. If you stop and think about it, when it comes down to it, almost every goth is a goth because of one thing, music, and if your gunna place yourself above all the others, you need to start thinking again. There are peoples in the 30's that are older and have been goth longer then you have been alive let alone being made. We are all free thinkers, adn we have are own ways, again, do not get an ego, and claim that you are better and 'higher ranking' then everyone else, because you will quickly find out how much that is really false.
I read your responses to dif. questions & everything else
you twist your words around, contradict yourself, you're a hypocrite.
I suggest you do more research before claiming yourself to be something.
Ehm..No. Sorry, Goth is Goth. You can't define it with a bunch of big words, and you can't seriously expect someone to adhere to a specific criteria just to be worthy of being called a true Goth. Seems like you're trying to create a faction within our subculture of people who would look down on the rest of us with a "Gothier than thou" attitude, which would go against the unity you expect to come of this. Goths can't be tied down, nor can they be expected to follow what you're saying. The most you would get is a rebellion, with the greater part of the Goth subculture turning against you and those you've managed to recruit. In the Goth world, there is no such thing as an Elder Goth, because to give someone such a label would be to place them above the rest, which is not what we're all about. Goths are about equality and kinship, and if I saw someone in a club claiming to be one of these Elder Goths, I would immediately write them off as a self-absorbed poser. And I don't even believe that there are posers, if that tells you anything at all. I think you've failed to grasp what we've been striving for since we first emerged into the scene...You may want to think about hitting the books again, until you understand the true meaning of what it is to be Goth.
wow! I read like the first 2 words and stopped what iz this even about??? I guess my advice would b just b your self because I don't know what im saying because I don't know what this iz bout k hope I helped lol
I believe the source of SOME of what I had written had originated from Wikipedia, specifically the sentence referring to a 'pattern of human activity.' I certainly do not wish to be regarded as a plagiarist due to my lack of attributions.
"Goth is certainly not exactly what would be considered a religion in precise terms, although it could DEFINITELY be referred to as a culture, belief system, and spiritual path. For the majority of Goths who do not place emphasis on commitment, there are also quite a few who do, including myself, yet these are seldom acknowledged, which is simply awful. I am passionate as an adherent of this specific belief system, and therefore I rigidly advocate the addition of standards which permit no deviation. Therefore only the most devoted of adherents will possess the honor with which to proclaim themselves as adherents. Goths may be tolerant of others, although this is no reason to obnubilate what the term Goth is intended to refer to. After all, people are considered 'poseurs' anyhow, despite the lack of definitive standards, and as a result they should therefore be able to understand WHY others are referencing them in such a disparaging manner. The imposition of standards would eliminate confusion, although it would require the assistance of the indispensible members of the Gothic community, rather than the efforts of one person, and that is what would appear to be quite challenging, especially since Goths are distributed throughout the world, rather than within a distinct location, and also because Goths are individuals who are capable of making well-formulated decisions, implying that their ideas and my ideas may not come into accord. They may perhaps be utterly opposed to the mere consideration of Goth becoming established. This is what I am dreadful of. "
I do not understand how Goth could be a religion. It has no set belief system & to many people believe in too many different things. For example I am a witch, I know a few who are Christian, 1 whose an atheist. I'm fine with it being a subculture. It cannot possibly work out as a religion.
"Sexuality should remain a topic of concern for Goths. Gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgendered people, those who practice BDSM as well as simply standard sex...should continue to be accepted, which, in my opinion, Goths are doing quite well with."
Why should it matter what you are?
I'm bi, got a problem with that? You can shove it up you're @$$.
"Magazines such as Gothic Beauty had immediately repulsed me, as every model had adhered to identical standards of beauty as that of the mainstream, yet were simply alternative in their mode of dress. These magazines should be deliberately avoided by ALL Goths."
Supposedly they have Gothic models, I don't see what the big deal is. NOt like I go out & buy them though.
"In society, a darker mindset is discouraged, although Goths should understand that what is supposedly 'insane' behavior is actually the result of suppressed dark thoughts. Goths should assume that if darkness is expressed through art or poetry or there are simply more discussions regarding it, there will be no pent up rage or frustration which eventually results in destructive outbursts. This does not necessarily imply that Goths should merely concentrate on their darker nature, rather, they should simply emphasize it more, especially through aesthetics and creative pursuits, and Goths are continuing to maintain this as well. 'Darkness' itself is NOT contrary to morality, as it is simply an essential characteristic within us all which must be embraced. THAT is an accurate definition of a Gothic belief, I suppose. "
I think all humans already understand that, but it does not make it the defintion of the belief system. As with every one it all depends on the person.
"Thick makeup, skulls, chains, spikes, piercing's, and colored hair"
That would be metal, not Goth. Sorry, try again.
Only Death Rocker Goths really dress like that, & ther not that commen in it anymore(least round where I'm from), & incase you're tihnking they wear trip pants & a band t-shirt, nope, they don't.
"I implore upon you all to assist me in establishing the Gothic Culture as a genuine culture or perhaps spiritual path, rather than a diminishing adolescent trend.'"
You do realize that it already is
"I am she who is responsible for producing this. You may encounter it on numerous websites, occasionally slightly edited. My name is Courtney Weidow. I am 16 years of age and am the Founder of this distinct culture. I am desiring the assistance of others in distributing information pertaining to it's existence, which is practically unrecognized. I shall always forward this to others in anticipation of proceeding displays of activism or espousal of such beliefs."
You're full of it.
GOTH HAS BEEN A SUBCULTURE SINCE 1979, WAY BEFORE YOU WERE BORN. LMAO
Let's see, it's been around for 30 years subtract 16 that's 14 years before you were even born or thought of more than likely.
Elder Goths are well into their 50's by now.
I know a few that are in their 30's & beyound.
By your definition I guess I would be an Elder Goth for I'm already 18.
Lol, but I'm really not, I've only been in the subculture for like 6 years(since you were 10).
I can agree with you on the other things I haven't commented about, but the way you described it makes me wonder if you even know what it's about or how it even got started.
try doing some research.
The founders of Goth are probably 3 times my age by now if not older.
They were Post Punk bands accidentally called Goth.
& I guess you can say it just went from there.
The style originally started out as all black, ripped fishnets & such inspired form a Victorian widow with boots, but it has evolved into much more since then, & with a lot more color(specilly since the Cyber & Loliya joined the scene).
You seriously need some help if you were seriously think you were the founder.
ahem. that was long. but goth is still awesome. rock on
When it was that I had written "My desire is not to convert you to my ways..." that was then, and this is now. Of course I wish to do so currently!
What am I supposed to be answering?
I myself do not assume that what I had written was 'superfluous' as I had simply discussed all that I had deemed necessary.
Yes, Goth is indeed a culture, as 'culture' can be interpreted any manner which is desired. Culture is any shared pattern of human activity. Even anthropologists experience dissention of opinions amongst each other when attempting to define it. Mexican is a culture, yes, but you can't assume that 'culture' refers merely to the activity of people which develops within specific regions.
Goth COULD be a subculture, however, and, in fact, is. Although I myself am attempting to contrive a distinct unit, which may perhaps be similar to the original in certain respects, and dissimilar in others. And how can you explain the results which appear when you enter "Goth Culture" into your Web browser?
The misconceptions pertaining to Goth are often established as inaccurate, and simply because adolescents proclaim their "Gothdom" does not ensure you that they are, in fact, Gothic. And they most certainly are not! We advocate pacifism, and that exclusively can be applied as evidence to the contrary -- that a 'legitimate' Goth would not commit a physical assault or assault with a weapon. All that is requisite is simple research on behalf of those who maintain this erroneous manner of thinking.
The appearance is our cultural attire, and it must be preserved. We are NOT of your culture, and therefore our ways are evidently dissimilar. We do not intend to revolt the 'conservatives' of the Dominant Culture, or obtain 'observant consideration' from those of which we encounter. Your ways should not concern us, and on the condition that adherents ARE concerned, and wish to attract hostile reactions, that is rather unfortunate, and I do not condone their manner of comporting themselves, although I can do nothing additional than simply permit them to exist as they please.
The adherents and their hypocrisy should not detract from the value and appeal of the cultural beliefs and ideals themselves. You must understand this.
In response to your husband's comment, I personally regard it as tasteless and devoid of comedic value. It is trite and ridiculous. People often include this in their insults directed upon that of myself, as if I had not been subject to such a remark prior to their instances of self-perceived 'brilliance.' It cannot even be regarded as offensive, as it is such a pathetic attempt to inspire some sort of reaction on my behalf. The majority of Goths do not request this treatment (although I suppose some may, and therefore I cannot regard all Goths collectively, as it would be an audacious assertion), therefore leave us be. I myself am quite accustomed to these remarks, and I merely assume those who engage in the process of accosting me are the attention-seekers, as I myself intend to arrive at a particular location to fulfill my needs at the precise moment, rather than attempt to inspire the contempt of the non-Goths. I cannot be responsible for their prejudice and intolerance toward me.
I myself do not wish to separate myself from the 'mainstream,' rather, I am simply not included amongst it. Yes, Goth is indeed a choice, yet our beliefs or convictions are regarded as impeccable. While they themselves are capable of alteration or permutation, why ever would an individual dispose of them? It would simply be a result of defective judgment, and would hinder personal improvement. Therefore one should, for the latency of his or her existence, resolve to engage in the endeavor of gradually elaborating his or her beliefs. While certain beliefs may have indeed originated as a personal preference, an individual cannot simply discard of them and revert to those of the Dominant Culture or predominant current of thought due to the very fact that they are perceived in such a manner -- impeccable. It is irrational of others to inform certain people including myself, who possess beliefs which deviate from established conventions, that they are merely providing their own complications when it is that they receive persecution and perhaps even discrimination. Hate crime legislation is beneficial for these purposes exclusively.
I am not offended. I suppose it was my fault entirely for not elaborating. This is an exceedingly large concept, you see, and I had not wished to appear long-winded. I suppose it is quite difficult to retain these ideas within my mind simultaneously as I am writing.
When I got to paragraph 10 of 15... I had to stop.
You definitely contradict yourself many times throughout. The majority of your essay is superfluous, although it was written very eloquently.
Goth is not a culture. It is a subculture. Mexican would be a culture.
I think the main reason why Goths are looked down upon is because of the enormous stereotypes associated with it. How many shootings and massacres were carried out by adolescents proclaiming to be Goth?
Now the appearance of Goths has also seemed to me for a scream for attention. Very similar to that of a Drag Queen. The extravaganza of the extreme appearance somehow lends them to get into the character if you will.
I recall a time I went with some friends to see a movie at a mall on Easter and outside was a gaggle of kids with blue, pink, green and red hair, mohawks, heavy mascara and eyeliner, black makeup, black attire, chains etc. To which my husband yelled out "You got the wrong holiday! this is Easter, not Halloween." While we don't celebrate either Holiday, his comment made an excellent and humorous point.
Now as far as Goths trying to separate from mainstream, there has been some commercialism to capitalize on the subculture. "Being Goth" IS a choice. Just like being Christian, Buddhist, Nazi, Bohemian, Freeganism, Vegetarian.. etc. Which includes religions, beliefs and lifestyles.
So in my opinion you aren't any different from religions trying to convert someone to better them... because they believe THEIR belief is the best.
If I offend you, I'm sorry. Just offering my opinions and thoughts on your essay so that you might delve a little more and perhaps my critique will help you.