Ignorance & Religion Walk Hand-in-Hand

The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Mormons come to my door, oh, about every three years - probably on the basis that that’s how often people move. Who are you to say Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons are not Christians? They say they are, and in fact the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints has increased the emphasis as shown. Christian tracts appear in my letterbox every so often.

Of course I know Rev 3 20. Also Rev 19 17-18, Rev 12 15-16. Anyone can cherrypick the bible to find anything they want.

Have you any idea how insulting “to save you” is? Translation: “never mind what you think, it’s wrong. What I think is right. You are lost. You must be saved. You must think what I think.”

“it has never been the practice of Christians to push themselves on people.” What, never? Read your history! The Crusades! The Inquisition! Even 150 years ago, all sorts of bodies - universities, government, were only open to christians.

The most important question a person can ask oneself is this: If I died today, where would I spend Eternity ?

Watching this video could help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCbUBlJzkVk

From that website:

“there are strict limits to variation that are never crossed”

ABSOLUTELY FALSE. No such limits have ever been found.

The rest of it seems to be the usual mischmasch of misunderstandings about evolution. Of course the archaeopteryx is not a “incomplete”. It wasn’t “trying to become a bird”. It was too busy being an archaeopeteryx. All the transitional forms were complete in themselves. It is only in retrospect that we can see what they evolved into. And so on.

That website has no credibility. It’s just someone’s blathering. Instead read a book like The Blind Watchmaker or Darwin’s Dangerous Idea. Hundreds of references pinning down every fact and every argument.

Seems to me that this:

“GOD is real and you need to understand that cause I do not want you to go to hell I want you to go to HEAVEN where there is PEACE and HAPPINESS where no one will cry. I am A CHRISTIAN!”

is the reason for this:

“Ok I am tired of Religous fanatics (mostly christian) trying to impress their religion on you. … I see that Christians are scared of death and it makes life easier to believe that when you die you go to a happy place … I want someone who can either back me up or hold an intelligent arguement based on facts.”

and not the other way around.

According to Ernest H Taves in his book “This is the Place”,

“There are points of similarity between [endowment] rituals and those of Freemasonry, and the charge has been made that Joseph [Smith] borrowed most of the substance of his ceremonies from the Masons. Joseph and Brigham [Young] and other church leaders were Masons, and they had maintained an active Masonic lodge in Nauvoo. Mormons deny any significant influence of Freemasonry upon their religion.” [footnote: See Ivins, “The Relationship of Mormonism and Freemasonry”)

You are right hugh7, glad to see others reading the Bible! The 17th level is from the masons where there are also all the same geometric symbols in the LDS temple and where there are also secret handshakes and other names that they alone are to know about. Some of the secret stuff stopped in 1990. Research that fundavice, it is true!

I wrote: “Evolution is happening today, but only in animals that reproduce very fast”. I should have said, “…but we can only see it happen in organisms that reproduce very fast.”

sry I have a question.. I might sound dumb. but I dont care. hehe. how can we “evolve” from an animal.?I dont really get that. are you saying that thats how humans were created? because if it was how humans were created why arent we still created from them today? evolution doesnt make any sense to me…

GOD is real and you need to understand that cause I do not want you to go to hell I want you to go to HEAVEN where there is PEACE and HAPPINESS where no one will cry. I am A CHRISTIAN!:)

Not to make anybody mad, but evolution is STILL considered a theory and not a fact. This by the scientific community, not by religion. Check out this site: http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html

The moral of that story is, the strength of someone’s belief has nothing to do with whether that belief is true. People have given their lives for all sorts of beliefs that you agree are false. And “gave his life to the Lord” is a very grandiose way of saying “decided her religion was true”.

wow i am convinced that all the religious peeps that replied to this post are bone heads… for zonemaster; that answered after my last post. you are a bone head cuz u contradicted yourself, i said more peeps have died cuz religion than any other cause and you replied “nooo, the leading cause of death is from disease” well any time there was an advance in medical technology or technology itself that person was tortured and killed for being a sorcerer or advocate for the devil. ooo… and for the person that wrote “if man evolved from animals then why do they still exist” you are a bonehead for trying to persuade someone in ur argument without any evidence to back it… there are many explanations for this. maybe if you did your own independent research instead of listening and believing every bias ignorant idiot you would be able to persuade someone otherwise. it seems like all you fairy tale believers are Sooo closed minded, anyone could make you believe anything, like the controlling businesses in the united states e.g. supplement, health care or the gov itself. perfect little sheep… n e ways… im sure that everything i just said will bounce off the thick skulls of all the religious people that will reply to this post as well, so this was for all of you normal peeps;)

Evolution is a theory the way gravity is a theory. Not to believe in it is just to close your eyes to the facts.

There are minor disputes about the theory of HOW evolution works, but the scientific community (as distinct from a small religious community posing as scientists) is in no doubt at all that it does work. “Nothing in biology or geology would make any sense without evolution.”

Bible is bullsh*t …corrupted…full of scientific errors !!

Funnily enough, the Qur’an is based on the Bible. Just saying.

Wow…so very eloquently put! You said that so perfectly, there is nothing left for me to add to that line of thought! Bravo!

you cant have religion without ignorance and you cant have ignorance without religion.

I hope that makes sense to some people.

My previous post answers a post that has been removed. How do posts get removed?

warmheart, stop. you have NO IDEA of what you are talking about.

I don’t know where you found this stuff on the LDS church, but it’s wrong. Big time.

Here we have, “Ripley’s…Believe It…Or Not”

True story a couple years ago: On “scared of death”

A lady was carjacked and the man threatened her with her life. She asked the man, “You threatening me with heaven?” As they drove and she talked more, he gave his life to the Lord, turned himself in and apologized, but still served(serving?) time.

I see you have bogus assumptions. We will see on the other side. Oh wait I bet you think there is no other side. Poor you!!! gods are gods and nothing more.

It is pretty amazing to see how many people who say they are not religious are willing to use blasphemy and anger to vent on faith-based issues. I would encourage anyone to look DEEPLY into the historical context of the Bible and see how it matches up.

Well maybe you think that “Ignorance and Religion walk hand in hand” because you have no religion. Maybe people with religion thing that a lack of religion and ignorance walk hand in hand. It’s a about perspective.

Why does it matter to you anyway? If a fanatic wants to believe something let them. It’s causing no harm to you. Sure they talk a lot about what they believe, but there’s more to them then that. Just give them a chance.

I have to say God is real !! I have been in many churches and I do not agree with some people or preachers .If you have any questions about the Bible read the bible from front to back . before making up your mind I pray that in doing so ,.(and I know this is true ) that god will revile him self to you.

Ok Man hasnt evolved from monkey but from a distant relative. This shows your leangth of reason. Evolution is a known fact none the less a theory. This is why we have a thousand different kind of squirrells to fit all these habitats. I cant say more got to go to skool.

i too am nott religeous but spiritual.thats the perfect way to put it.oh and smed very briliant anology on your part there.sigh youre all so wise….lol

aghhhhhhhhhhhh so much has chnged where are my people …and smed why wont you defend your argument????sigh…well im back hit me up k -v-

lol ok i dont have a religion…im just exploring my options for now 0.o ~ and to tell you the truth sometimes im not even nshure god exists yes i do belive in ghosts im assumin u mean life and truth be it i dont know….but i dont much care lol ur welcum!!!!!!!! vAnNiLlA

Well it is clear you have no clue. So an intelligent conversation with you is out of the question. You already think you know it all. SORRY!! You don’t Sucks to be you!! Don’t worry you will get it in the end. If you don’t get it you never will.

I’m a proud Agnostic, and I always am stuck putting up with Mormons and Catholics shunning me, or preaching at me, telling me I’m going to hell and that God hates me and yada yada yada. Religion isn’t as pretty as they want to make it seem.

I go to youth groups to test out possibilities. I try to prove facts for my self I dont assume. I wanted to see the reactions of these people. I find Christians ignorant and mentally impaired.

Why do you repeat yourself over and over ? May I ask that ? Also If you think about the whole concept of Christianity, its kind of demented. Sure its built upon good morales and great life standards but when most Christians become corrupted then you have to take into consideration that Christianity isnt the best religion. It has a heavy following, only because it insures a happy life after death and a dreadful punishment for those who dont believe.

How can you look at this beautiful world and say God doesn’t exist? I’m sorry that some people are forcing their beliefs at you. Just remember that not all christians are like that. God has done so much for me. He stayed by my side through my father’s death. I felt so alone, but I felt comfort in knowing God was there with me.

Though there is no direct proof he’s there, it’s in your mind’s eye. For example, I believe in the wind. I’ve never seen the wind, but I know it’s there. How? We’ve seen the effects of the wind.

I believe in God. I’ve never seen God, but I know he’s there. How? I’ve seen the effects of God. And it’s a beautiful thing.

hello ! badonkadonk here ! i feel that the bible holds a message for everyone, the parts u get are meant for u, the parts u dont, might be in the future to figure out later, cuz the bible is a book u read over and over, they also have, help u study books, but we all have a brain that tells us good from wrong, and we all should follow our good hearts. not that hard to figure out, sometimes we make things more difficult than they actually are. we all should be and do good, its pretty simple!

I guess I need to to explain what your asking. For one thing Christians shouldn’t become corrupted. I don’t really understand what you mean by that. And Christianity isn’t about religion. Yes, there are guidelines in the Bible that you have to follow, but it’s more about your personal relationship with God. It’s not about traditoin and rituals…. or it shouldn’t be. Do you understand what I’m saying?

Nobody said it had to be obvious, and yet it is, if you give it a little thought. If you’re not prepared to do that …

it still doesnt click w/ me.

Once again… NO ONE have proven anything in here…

Hmmm…

So, that makes… ME right.

Ignorance Could be defined as trying to reason religion or politics with one person on the internet on a public forum.

religion teaches you to judge people. its all bullshit, unless you just accept everyone.

yay to buddists!!!!!!!!!!!! and saintinist but i prefer to stick with the massons -v-

Bible is bullshit …corrupted…full of scientific errors !!

Ask yourself one question: “Why is there something rather than nothing?”

I believe that some sort of ark (not arc) existed. Species back then were quite different from the species you see today. Most of them. Only the rest I believe to be fiction. Maybe a space ark? :D About the Pope doing that…no objection. It’s over my head anyway. :)

Has anyone ever pointed you to the personhood of Christ?

You don’t need to go to all those meetings to try and find the answers….just read the number 1 best seller: THE BIBLE

All I know is, if you meet me and don’t get to know me, you’ve lost nothing….but if you meet Jesus and don’t get to know Him, you’ve lost EVERYTHING !

If you feel the need to try and belittle me and my faith, I take that as a badge of honor…for likewise was my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ attempted to be mocked/belittled….then came Day 3 !!

although you and I are not worthy or ever could be worthy, Jesus paid the price for your and my sins on that cross

look at the news these days…then look at the read the book of Revelations…they read the same !…His return appears soon, please don’t be ‘left behind’

elinthial, this is what I know to be true: when I was 9 years old I repented of my sin and asked the Lord Jesus Christ to come into my heart….He did and the Holy Spirit took up residence in my heart and changed my way of thinking/my life….over the years I have been so richly blessed….so, what makes one a Christian ?….one who is saved / has received freely offered salvation (John 3:16) and strives to live one’s life, praising, only saying and doing those things which are pleasing God….I say again, striving

faith is the evidence of things NOT seen

a person has a choice of what they do about Jesus….they either accept Him or reject Him, there’s no ‘riding the fence’….I hope and pray you’ll accept Him before it’s too late

God Bless You !!

“A lot of homosexuals will disagree and say they were born gay. Now, is that like saying I was born fat or that Neil Armstrong was born an astronaught?” No, it’s like saying he was born left-handed or she was born red-headed. But so what, nobody was born Catholic or Mormon either. Those are definitely choices, and its illegal to discriminate against them.

Yes, religion puts ignorance (believing in things with no evidence / faith) on a pedestal. The Eve-apple story says “Don’t seek knowledge, just obey.”

Tom Paine said, “Scorn bribe of Heaven or threat of Hell.” You can’t compel belief anyway, if the evidence isn’t convincing. Some of the most self-centred people are the most religious. And hope? Hope for a non-existent afterlife is folly.

Fototag asked “Ask yourself one question: ‘Why is there something rather than nothing?’”

Answer 1. If there were nothing, we wouldn’t be here to ask. Answer 2. I don’t know. It’s all right not to know. Answer 3. If your answer is “Because God/dess/es decided there should be.” then you’ve only added one layer to the problem: Why are there one or more god/dess/es rather than none? An intangible all-powerful intelligence (or more than one) doesn’t actually answer that question. Is it even a sensible question? So Answer 4. One of its legs are both the same.

I’m an atheist and I’m not afraid of dying. I’m just sorry that after I die I won’t be enjoying life’s pleasures (especially consciousness) any more.

But christians who believe in Heaven and are sure they are going there should look forward to death with pleasure - that’s what heaven was invented for! And christians who complain that atheists have no morals should be at least as good as us, so what’s with Ted Haggard? If religion does nothing to make people better people, what’s it good for?

Much of the bible is patently fictional. The story of Adam and Eve is as fictional as that of Cinderella or the Sleeping Beauty (and has the same theme, “forbid someone from doing something, and they’re sure to do it”).

Scientists never said the world was flat.. The Greeks established that the world is round more than 300 BCE, but people used the bible to argue that it was flat right into the 20th Century. Of course our calendar is (inaccurately) based in part on the birthfdate of Jesus, because the church used to be in charge of everything, but our days and months are named after pagan gods. Does that prove the pagan gods are true?

The Founding Fathers of the US were mainly deists, not theists, and wisely separated church and state - now believers are trying to merge them again, and the consequences if they succeed will be disastrous.

Blasphemy is a victimless crime, and the atheists praying in foxholes are a myth.

myhavinfun2 is proving the subject line hand over hand, but if there is any difference between the many gods of ancient times and the one God myhavinfun2 thinks is so different, I’d like to know what it is.

Actually, it is science, not religion, that has proved there are many things we can not see - bacteria, viruses, submicroscopic particles, invisible radiations, vast distant galaxies, black holes, non-solar planets.

None of the things religion claims - angels, archangels, devils, demons, spirits, ghosts, souls, gods, God, have ever been shown to be any more real than leprechauns, pixies, fairies, elves, or Santa Claus.

Thanks bluezenyth for noticing that I am polite and quiet. Why is it “passive agressive” to state my beliefs? Are Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormons or any other evangelists “passive aggressive” to state theirs? (Not that I welcome being compared to them, but I suspect that the expression is levelled at me, not because of my style, but because bluezenyth has no answer to my arguments, so descends to ad hominem - attacking the person - in the guise of amateur psychiatry - “playing ‘psychiatry’” as Eric Berne called it.) I do not state them “over and over” but rebut each new version of the answer, on its own merits. And I do not expect anyone to change their beliefs because I believe something else, but because I have convinced them, by bringing facts to bear that they understand and agree with.

It is legitimate to ridicule any belief if it is ridiculous, and many aspects of traditional religion have become ridiculous, in the light of scientific advancement. We (almost) all agree that this is the case with polytheism, and the many folk-deities, such as leprechauns (and I certainly never said or implied that I believe in devils, because I don’t and never have). I just go that one deity further.

“Strong moral beliefs” should not be uncritically applauded. I presume (and certainly hope) bluezenyth would not applaud the strong moral beliefs of Muslims who cut the hands off thieves or bulldoze walls onto homosexuals, or imprisoned a woman for being raped, because she got into a car with a man who was a relation. Moral beliefs can be argued and disputed just like any other beliefs, and we can make progress. Once, slavery was considered moral, because some people were deemed innately inferior to others (and the reverse was also argued, that their enslavement proved they were inferior). Pro-slavers had “strong moral beliefs”. Now we can agree that those beliefs were wrong.

Nor are people like myhavinfun2 (who strikes me as remarkably patronising, considering the amount of misinformation s/he has stated so confidently) “the last remnants of any good morals we have left in the world”. That is just ridiculous, like bluezenyth’s fulminations about degradation, etc. I am also concerned about the moral state of the world, but the world’s prisons are filled with some of the world’s most religious people, and some of the most immoral hold high positions, and let us know about their faith at every opportunity. Lack of belief in non-material beings by no means implies that “it is all for naught”. Since I am largely in agreement with the original poster, perhaps it is bluezenyth who should be finding another topic.

Well, thanks bluezenyth for all the flat^h^H^H^H compliments. I don’t much like talking about myself in public. Nostradamus? Nah. Check with some authentic sources, such as an observatory’s website, and I think you’ll find the “planets lining up precisely” is greatly exaggerated (they’ll be in the same quadrant, or some such), if not actually false. Anyway, who says planets lining up precisely means anything? It doesn’t multiply their gravity or anything like that. I think you’ll find that this preoccupation with planets lining up dates from about 1968 and the opening scenes of “2001: A Space Odyssey” which made such a big impression (largely because of the R. Strauss music). There was, as you say, another such “planets lining up precisely” some 15 or 20 years ago (I think it was called The Great Harmonic Convergence or some such big-sounding but little-meaning name) and Nothing Happened (only the people who got involved in it felt good, which feels like something happening). Nostradamus wrote vaguely and people read a lot of their own preoccupations into his writings. He wrote about the Hister, another name for the Danube river, and in the 1930s and 40s people actually said you could change one letter and get Hitler. Well of course you could change all the letters and get anything you liked. Some of his prophecies have been faked (fake Nostradamus prophesies were actually used for propaganda purposes during WW2), but when you go back to the originals, you find less than people claim. Same with the I Ching. I don’t know about the Mayan calendar. The most dramatic successful prophecies (such as those in the bible) were made after the events they foretold, like drawing the target around the arrow. Lesser ones were vague, and are a matter of interpretation. The vast majority of prophecies don’t come true at all, and are forgotten. It’s always fun to keep the mediums’ predictions for a year and see how they turn out. Here are mine: there will be trouble in the Middle East. A South American country will have a violent or sudden change of government. Arthur C Clarke will have serious health problems and maybe die. So will Charlton Heston. So will the Duke of Edinburgh. Famous film stars will divorce. Others will have sexual scandals. But you see, I’m not dressing them up in the kind of mediumistic waffle that will enable me to wriggle out a year from now.

No, there is a fundamental difference between religion and secularism. Religion asks, and sometimes demands, that you believe things on insufficient evidence, going so far as to put into the mouth of the reported founder of one major religion the words “Blessed are those who do not see and yet believe.” That is a recipe for walking hand in hand with ignorance.

Not quite sure what you mean by “secularism” in this context. It usually means the policy of leaving religious teachings out of consideration in such things a law, education etc. You can be secular and still study religions as human artifacts, in as much depth as you please (thus avoiding ignorance of them), just not require people to believe them uncritically.

In what way do feelings authenticate our understanding of Truth? If something lacks sufficient evidence but feels good (eg “We all have psychic powers”), that is actually a good reason to be even more wary of it.

I try not to say what I think is not right, with the result that I generally think that what I say is right. Don’t you? Doesn’t everybody, except when they’re just fooling?

Yes, like many people I don’t believe in god/dess/es. I don’t maintain it’s proved beyond all possibility of doubt that they don’t exist (I’m not a “strong” atheist) but their existence raises all sorts of internal contradictions that theists have so far miserably failed to answer.

Trying to change people’s beliefs? Sure, is that a crime where you are (as it is in some Middle Eastern countries)? This board is not “devoted to Christianity” and Christians are not the possessors of all truth. I’ll go against them when I think they are wrong, and if that’s not mature, grow down!

I have no idea whether there is another side or not, but there certainly isn’t enough evidence to convince me that there is (and especially not mediums spouting platitudes, with nary a fact that they couldn’t have found on this side), so my working assumption is that there is not.

“gods are gods and nothing more”? What is that supposed to mean? The ancients saw that things happened they didn’t understand. The only way they could think of for that to be, was that someone was making them happen. Some of the things (earthquakes, floods) were much bigger than anyone they knew could do so they invented superbig people with superduper powers, made them invisible (because they couldn’t see them) and called them gods. A power-struggle in Egypt led to one king saying there was only one god, and that was simpler (because you didn’t have to worry about power struggles between the gods). He got taken to the Middle East and then the rest of the world. As our understanding of the universe advanced, they tried to make him more and more sophisticated, but in the end they failed. Time to let him go, too.

Incidentally “Our whole calender system stems around the truth of Jesus Christ and God.” is a perfect example of ignorance and religion walking hand in hand. The only aspect of our calendar system that has anything to do with Jesus is the numbering of the years (so that now people think Jesus was born 4 years BC!). None of it has anything to do with God.

“Or, does it just bother you that they believe in something that you can’t understand or explain?” Don’t patronise me. I’ve had Christianity out the wazoo since I was yay high, and I can probably explain it better than you can. What I can’t understand is why they believe so much nonsense, gibberish and self-contradiction (with a tiny amount of interesting material among a few). And what makes you think I’m angry? Don’t I put enough smileys in? :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) There.

“by there4u on Jan 18, 2008, 07:52PM”: “it has never been the practice of Christians to push themselves on people.”

“by there4u on Feb 19, 2008, 02:52PM “: “I didn’t say anything about it never being the practice of Christians to push themselves on people.” Someone has been hacking into your computer, then. You’d better have it checked.

It’s a pity evolution is so badly taught, especially in the US, because it’s such an important idea.

If something makes copies of itself, but they are not exact copies, then some copies will be better than others at copying themselves in that environment. The ones that are better will make more copies, and the ones that are not so good will make fewer, until the better kind is the commonest kind, in that environment. If they move or take root in different environments, or if the environments change, different kinds will emerge. The different kinds will interact with each other in many different ways, and over time, those interactions will change, some will become plants and some pollinaters, some predators, some prey, some parasites, and some hosts. Evolution will use whatever works.

Evolution is very very slow, individuals don’t evolve, it takes many generations for a visible change to occur. If you look at an hour hand of a clock, you can’t see it moving. Evolution is much slower than that. Evolution is happening today, but only in animals that reproduce very fast - bacteria. Methycillin Resistant Staphlococcus Aureus (MRSA) is a bacteria that didn’t exist before we invented methycillin. It evolved out of ordinary SA.

It took a lot of tiny changes for humans to evolve out of our rather ape-like distant ancestors. Those ancestors don’t exist any more, which is another reason humans aren’t likely to evolve again. One reason humans aren’t going to evolve out of our distant cousins the chimpanzees and gorillas is that we have almost wiped them out.

Another reason is that now humans are on the earth, we haven’t made it a welcoming environment for another intelligent species. Neanderthal people were quite intelligent, but we probably wiped them out.

Oh and evolution isn’t just about humans and (other) animals. All of life, animal (including human), plant, bacteria and some other obscure kinds, evolved in one great big family tree - in fact our geneological family trees are just the finest twiglets off one twig of the great big branching family tree of all of life. (I find it inspiring to know that I am distantly related to beautiful things like roses and cheetahs, don’t you?)

You can see the relationships clearly in groups like the cats - wild cats, lynxes, pumas, leopards, cheetahs, jaguars, lions and tigers. Isn’t it obvious they’re cousins? Go a bit further back and hyenas are a bit catlike and a bit doglike. We selectively bred dogs out of wolves, and now they’re different species (and some of our dog breeds wouldn’t breed together without a lot of help). Don’t expect a wolf to be devoted to you. That’s artificial selection, people chose the friendliest dogs to breed and they got friendlier and friendlier. Natural selection is similar but without any plan or intentions.

Bottom line: A person either accepts or rejects Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savour - no in-between - the choice comes with eternal consequences.

Apron, 17th level, blood oath, secret name - sounds more like the Freemasons.

And my bible says “Abaddon” but who cares, it’s only somebody’s bad dream.

The 17th level at the LDS temple is where the participants swear a blood oath. A name is given to memorize and never tell of it to another person. They are given an apron with several different symbols on it and they are to put their arm over the one that references the special name. The person then makes a gesture with their thumb across their throat and swears the blood oath, lest they die. The word is Aboddon, Greek for Satan. Revelation 9 tells of Satan’s name in Greek and Hebrew.

Please use tough love to help them take off the blinders that they may see the deception!

You can certainly have ignorance without religion!

We are using the “ignorance” in two ways.

1. In the basic sense of “lack of knowledge”, we all have vastly more ignorance than we have knowledge because there is so vastly much to know.
2. But there is also a more culpable kind of ignorance, that embraced by religion, involving the refusal to learn and the refusal to understand, the clinging to beliefs that have been (or easily can be) proved false, making a virtue of “faith”.

You can have the first kind of ignorance without religion. zimmy seems to be referring to the second kind.

I would like to thank Ethinial for posting this discussion. It has brought a great deal of attention to Christianity. I find it very interesting that many of the posts from the non-Christians are insulting and extremely negative. This makes me wonder how happy you are with your lives and also why you feel the need to insult others beliefs. There is a course offered at many churches http://alphana.org/ which is presented by a minister from the U.K. who was an athiest like many of you. These courses are open to anyone interested and all views and opinions are welcome. It is a wonderful forum for you to discuss your views and maybe understand Christianity a little better. There has got to be a better way for you to discuss your views than calling people with different beliefs from yourself a bonehead.

I haven’t reads all postings but would like to comment.
I reached a point in my life where I just didn’t have the answers anymore. I didn’t know what to do and it was driving me crazy. That was when I decided to start going to church again and letting go of some of my problems. It really helped me think more clearly and from a different perspective.
I find it much more comforting accepting God into my life and believing in him than trying to disprove everyones else’s beliefs. And don’t we all want to enjoy all of the time that we get to spend on this earth.
Get over yourself.

Elinthial - If you have such a problem with Christians, why are you spending so much time trying to prove them wrong? Why are you going to youth groups? Are you hoping that one of these visits, someone will be there that can help you understand God? Remember that we are all only people and Christians and their leaders are not perfect. They get angry and annoyed just like everyone else.
Maybe you’re just looking for something to believe in. Reading your first posting really made me angry but your more recent postings just make me feel sorry for you. I hope you can find something that will help you have a little faith. At your age, there are a lot of questions that go unanswered. What you will learn as you get older that there are no concrete answers to the big questions. You just have to have faith…

hugh7, when was the last time someone tried to save you? In my church we provide Vacation Bible School to children in the summer (it is their choice whether they decide to go or not - we don’t go looking for them), we provide funds and send missionaries overseas to make lives of people in impoverished countries a little better, we provide funds and resources to people in need in our own country. Nobody is forced to join our church as a result but as I have mentioned they are welcome, if they wish. Why is this such a problem for you and why does it make you so angry? Churches do a lot more good than you may realize. Have you ever heard the passage from the Bible - Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him and he with me. REVELATION 3:20 There are crusaders and evangelists out there, no doubt. Don’t lump us all in together. Many of us use the church to remind us to be better people (and I need that reminder once a week) and to use whatever gifts we have been given to make the world a better place.

I don’t think you got my point. I’m not sure who you’re quoting above but I didn’t say anything about it never being the practice of Christians to push themselves on people. I just asked you to understand that there are all types of Christians just like there are all types of people, period. Please don’t lump us all together.
I’d still like understand why you are so angry about this, though. What kind of experiences have you had with Christians that were so horrible? Or, does it just bother you that they believe in something that you can’t understand or explain?

How naive of this person to claim the Bible to be fictional. Just because he can not see past the end of his nose and lives in a fantasy world reading books he thinks to be true. The best scientists of the day thought the planet was flat. How many scientific facts have been changed do to new discoveries. Man is not as smart as he thinks he is. (especially this guy) There is so much we do not know or have forgoten or written off as falsehoods because we can not fathom the truths. The feeble little mind canot comprehend them even though they are true. Our whole calender system stems around the truth of Jesus Christ and God. Our country was founded by God believing men and this yahoot thinks he is smarter then those great men how naive of this ignorant person. This countries problems stem around the non beliving people who want to take the very foundation we stand for away. If they do they will cause us to fall. Then say well I did not know. When it is to late. Do not worry he will find out soon enough who is telling the truth and who is not. I believe I will keep my faith in tact. We are created in his image. Amen!!!

It is clear you are stuck in your little world. Man thinking he knows it all. When you do not capitalize god it is nothing more than a fictitious character. So gods are gods and nothing more. When you capitalize God then we are talking about the Creator. Just because you canot fathom the fact we are not just an accident does not mean we are not created. This is all to perfect for it to be solely by chance. The energy that gives us life comes from and goes somewhere. That energy spark of life crosses over weather you think it does or not. If you canot see out side the box then stay in your finite little world and we will enjoy ours from now on. To all who believe, see you on the other side. God bless and may the blessings of life enrich and fulfill your lives. Just because you can not put your hands on it does not mean it does not exist! With this I probably will not argue with you any more because it is obvious, either you believe or you do not. We can except you not believing, we don’t like it because we feel sorry for your loss and hope for you not to be lost. But it is your choice. You guys look at us and think we are idiots because we believe in something you can’t see but we can see. So crawl back into your box and try to enjoy what life you have left. For life is to great to argue with closed minded smarter then thou (so they think) people that have no insight. For believe it or not we all have a small still voice that if we listen keeps us on the right path. Especially if we feed it right. They tell us it is jusy our imagination. If so damb I sure have a very wise imagination. Thank you for reading God bless. This all has to do with God!!! The ignorant walk blindly thinking it is only true, if I can see it or touch it. If I can’t it does not exsist. I know there is life after death!!

I’m not sure what Christians you are speaking about. I really haven’t met many who have tried to push their beliefs on anyone. I have had Jehovah’s Witnesses come to my door and try but it has never been the practice of Christians to push themselves on people.
We all have our reasons for believing in God and we don’t need to look at scientific facts. Many people come to church in their time of need when nothing else is helping them and they have received support and reassurance.
I’m very sorry that so many of you see us believing in something beyond our comprehension as a bad thing. We all need something to believe in and maybe some day you might understand.
You don’t have to believe in our religion but you are always welcome if you ever feel the need.

Well it’s not as grammatical, for starters.

Certainly a case can be made, when a man is held up as infallible. Or when someone claims that the Creator of the Universe spoke to them individually and told them what to write. Or that the particular versions of what is written that they happen to follow, are the final truth about everything.

It is too late. I am too far into the dark side. (( For god loved the world so, he gave his only begotten son. For those who believe in him will not perish but will have eternal life.)) I am not lieing to myself anymore. I will not be something I am not. I will not condemn myself to a horrid religion. I dont want to live under a Jealous god, an ugly god.

Wow, that was very, lets say… Expected. You see what I mean. People need reassurance in their life, their dependancy on other beings to make them happy. Why can’t you make yourself happy ? Also when Jesus was living was a time when sea monsters ravaged the ocean, when dragons pillaged medi-eval towns. Now dragons were thought to be the latest version of dinosaur that went extinct during that time. Sea monster stories came from the sight of ocean dwelling crocadiles and giant squid. Now I cannot deny your enthusiasm in christianity but you need to look at the facts, the Bible is fiction, it always will be. It is like reading Tolkeins Lord Of The Rings and believing that lesser gods invented elves, humans, orcs, wizards, and the demons and they died out before we became intelligent and a new race of humans were born from it.

Ok I am tired of Religous fanatics (mostly christian) trying to impress their religion on you.

The same thing you’re doing now?

When you debate your beliefs and they refer to the bible and tell you that your facts from books and common knowledge are disputable because of lack of evidence.

Nothing can be a fact unless all the evidence points to it. Then it’s just opinions. Nice try though.

I know Jesus was known to exist. But what the f*ck ?!?! He could have been another guy making peoples lives better. Like Dr. Phil. So in 2000 years when they find tabloids about Dr. Phil is he going to be the next prophet ?

Umm, Dr.Phill doesnt prophisize, so no he couldnt be a prophet. He’s a doctor. Duh.

I see that Christians are scared of death and it makes life easier to believe that when you die you go to a happy place

I have no fear of death. Hell I dont think of it at all really. But it’s good of you to tell me what I fear. Really you’re swell.

… If you look at most religions they are based around one thing, a ‘higher’ god. So if my books and knowledge are fake than isnt a 2,000 year old book that has supposedly gone unchanged fake as well ?

Oh bother, just because someone is wrong doesnt make you right. && What are your books and your so called knowledge?

Isnt Christianity another reason to blame their sins on something else than themselves ?

Nope. And until you actualy get your facts right you shouldnt say anything.

I dont want to hear anyone preach because my prespective wont change. I dont want flames.

No one really cares what you want. Don’t demand respect unless you’re willing to give it.

I want someone who can either back me up or hold an intelligent arguement based on facts.

Translation: Validate me. When you get real facts then I’ll be more than willing to go toe to toe with you.

I entirely agree with you (original poster) - I cant stand people that try and force others to believe in their religion, and dont look at the real scientific facts. I dont go round finding religious people saying its all rubish, and that they should believe in what I believe in…so why do they? - quite frankly they can * off.

In answer to the ORIGINAL question, I ask you to consider something. It is a religious belief to spread the word of God. When people are ‘bible thumping’, they mean no disrespect to you, they are only doing what they believe they need to do. Don’t judge or hate people for doing what they think is right. As far as all of the philosophy you have touched on, clearly something has made you consider issues of religion. It clearly bothers you to be uncertain about the subject, and all the information and two sided arguments won’t help much. There is conflicting information at every turn concerning religion, so one has to discover one’s OWN beliefs. Read the Bible for yourself.

Passive-agressive people like Hugh7 drive me crazy. He had already politely stated his beliefs, or lack thereof, and will politely and quietly continue to do so, over and over, until somebody either changes their entire belief system because Hugh7 does not believe, or somebody at least agrees with him. Which brought me to my original point; just because someone else has a different belief system does not give you the right to ridicule them for it, because YOU do not and cannot possibly KNOW what is real or not, unless you are claiming to be God yourself. I notice you carefully state everything to show that YOU yourself didn’t personally say you believed in devils, but it is implied, through careful ridicule. Those who DO have a strong moral belief should be applauded, not ridiculed, as they are the last remnants of any good morals we have left in the world. Without people like myhavinfun2, there is no reason not to fall into degradation, moral decay, because there is truly no reason to live at all if it is all for naught. Let the good, moral people have their say too, without all the ridicule. If you don’t like it, may I suggest finding a topic that does not make you so negative and hostile. I’m sorry, but these comments really made me angry.

Hugh7; I accept your rebuttal to my previous comments, and it got me curious. So I looked up some of your answers to other topics. Not only do you have perfect English and grammer, but you are obviously well read. Now, I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I’m so curious. Are you an author or something? You are way too knowledgable, albiet somewhat stubborn, and you come across as condensending because I think you are more intelligent than the average layman that would normally enjoy these discussions. You are harder to communicate with than the average person, because you don’t have an average knowledge base. With all this said, I’m enjoying reading your responses because you answer your opinions in depth, and explain why they are your opinions. I admit that even though I don’t agree with some things, I am wildly impressed with your writing. If you aren’t an author, you should be. And yes, I’m done with this topic, I’ve already stated my opinion, but I would like your opinion on something. What do you think of the Nostradamus predictions that the world will end on Dec 21, 2012? The same date was stated in the Mayan Calendar, found by some mathmatician in the I Ching, and a couple more sources that I, being of average intelligence, can’t remember but recall hearing about. Do you think it is like history repeating itself about the end of the world, or do you think that the scientific evidence of the planets lining up precisely on this date has any relevance? My opinion is that once more, people have picked a date and warped information to fit the predictions…but curious about the poles shifting on this date which is reportedly scientific fact. I would really like to hear what you think. May we start a discussion about this subject, and perhaps prophecies in general? I think it may be interesting. Some people believe that there is evidence to prove that some have come true. Anyway, if you are interested, I’d love to hear what you personally would have to say about it. I apologize if I offended you, my response was an emotional one, and admittedly, not well thought out.

I agree with jamaicanburris wholeheartedly. It is easy to form opinions and jump to conclusions without exploring the subject more in depth. How many times have I, myself, formed an opinion only to think on it further and with more information, to change it? We must all have an open mind, and respect others opinion as well, even if we don’t agree. It is possible to have a different opinion without slamming other’s opinions. With that being said, a lot of people have made some very interesting points. I’m just glad people are actually even THINKING about God, and hopefully will find Him.

First of all… of coarse Christians are afraid of dying!!! Everyone is!!! Atheist are scared about it,so are Mormans and,well everyone!!! Christians are just humans. Most people think that we(christians)are this not scared of anything,perfect people liveing in a perfect world. THIS IS NOT TRUE!!! Christians have problems too ya know. People die,money gets low,boyfriend/girlfriend problems happen, ec. If you (elinthial) write me back,I will send you proof about Christianity. “oh” and almost everyone is calling Christians names and I just wanted to tell you guys it makes your case look a little pathetic when you add in name calling. It looks like you don’t have proof to back up what you’re saying. sorry…don’t mean to be rude but it does

If da Quran was based on the Bible, y dont u just read Quran and acknowledge what it says?

Could possibly any Human being on earth have wriiten a book like the Quran???

and plus it was 1400 yers back !!

see www.quran.com and www.thisistruth.org

The Quran Contains thousands of miraculous scientific discovereis that the modern world has recently discovered…its language cannot be translated into any language correctly…

To learn Islam study Quran n Islam…compre it with other relgion..analyze evaluate…

Many modern scientists convert to Islam…

Could possibly the Quran be made of man??? Impossible !!

and Nobody in the modern world could find any single scientific error in the Quran !! There is no ontradicion in the Quran !! The bible can be easily billion tiems refuted !!! It is impossible to fidn any error in the Quran !!

I agree with dw5386 I doesn’t make sense to talk to those people. Just let them be and hope they don’t send their children to the same schools the went to.

Here are some interesting arguments they lost so far, in the approximate time-sequence. It is easy to see that religion lost more and more ground, but always tried to oppose the next idea until it was known fact.

Earth is flat Human culture is static (no technical progress occurs) The Moon is a light, not another world The Planets are lights, not worlds The universe is filled with air Earth is the center of the solar system The Stars are not other suns, but small lights Earth is 4000 Years old The animal and plant world is static (no new species or extinctions) The Solar system is the center of the universe Our Galaxy is the only one (list about 1900) The Universe is static (lost in the 1920’s) Heart transplantations will remove the soul from the human (lost in the 50’s) There are no other solar systems, only naked stars (lost in the 90’s)

In one thing they were right: the Moon DOES revolve around the earth

Bill maher is right… you religious believers o wait i should say followers are just a bunch of kids “childish mentallity”. i was talking to someone today at work about religion; something you should never do… but n e ways it ended up being a logical conversation at first and ended up with him becoming defensive and bone headed “not rational” and was pointless talking to him aft like 2 r 3 minutes. just like a child, la la la la la i cant hear u. duuu. just like the guy there4u above throwing cheap comments out to degrade my image or something… and the stupid childish response from captain assassin about 3 above. n e ways, i hope all of you get around to seeing bill mahers documentary “religulous” when it comes out.

Mr. Smedheader, no offense, but if you read the bible/Torah properly you wouldn’t have such questions. Have you ever heard of Rashi, he lived till the year 1064 and wrote a simple translation of the bible for which in his time, 5-year-olds could understand easily. I’m going to address your yellow block first with Rashi’s commentary: 1)When were the luminaries created? They were created ont eh first day and on the fourth day He (G-d) commanded them to me suspended in the sky. Similarly, all the creations of the skies and earth were created on the first day and each one was fixed in its proper place on the day that was decreed upon it. You may ask: Why did G-d create light first of all, only then to hide it? Answer; Because the ultimate purpose of Creation is that G-d’s presence should be revealed in the lowest realms therefore, at the very outset of creation G-d made a “mission statement” declaring what the ultimate purpose of the world should be - revelation; like an architect (so to speak) who draws up plans before creation. 2 )You say that the moon is not a luminary? The definition is: a) a celestial body, as the sun or moon. b) a body, object, etc., that gives light. So, the moon gives light - it doesn’t matter if it’s light is from the sun. It’s close to 1 now, but if you care for me to continue, let me know. And BTW, faith keeps people alive. It gives them something in life to have emotions for and care for other for themselves.

Buddhism 96% Paganism 79% Islam 63% Hinduism 63% agnosticism 54% atheism 46% Christianity 38% Judaism 38% Satanism 33%

Probly shouldnt post this in this thread but it is funadvice not seriousadvice :P so im gonna anyway. We love reincarnation hehe.

Dear elinthial,

I hope you are still here, at least on occassion.

Please don’t give up on God. God is not an ugly god at all, at least not the one I believe in. God is a god who loves us, who does not give us up for lost even when we strayed and crippled ourselves. True, God could blot us out as a bad lot and start over–but then it wouldn’t be us who God saved. Instead God chose the harder way and sent his own Son to show us the way back, to lead us and give us strength for the journey.

True, Christians have high ideals, which we rarely live up to. We admit it. We are all sinners, after all. We fall, and need to get up again, and again, and again. . . . If we were not sinners, we wouldn’t need the Church or a savior. But the truth is, we are fallen, we dream of better, and God offers it to us. No, Christianity (to refer to the original question) is not a way to blame our sins on somebody else. Christianity is to take responsibility for our own sins and begin to do something about them.

God will accept you, God still loves you. Join us, if you dare!

the false views consist in the belief that things are substantial,that they are really produced and really destroyed. a rope does not really exist,since it dipends for its existence on the threads that compose, the world is only a process,an eternal chain of cause and effects.what arises in dependence is devoid of an own being.consequently it is unreal.the knowledge of the universal voidness is liberation.the man who realizes that all is void,thereby stopped the creation of illusions by his mind,has destroyed the empircal reality.which is nothing else that one of these illusions created by his mind.ignorant persons are attached to forms,those in the middle become detached,those who possess a lofty mind,who know the true nature of forms become liberates.that is to say established in the middle way which denies equally being,existence,and non being,non existence.the real meaning of voidness is profound,

I must give a hand to the Christians. This was a debate, while they are the only ones left talking. Huh, what happend to those who challenged this, oh wait they left cause they dont want to hear it. Thats right they fuss about hearing it ,but leave when they are being challenged about it or even reasoned with. Wonder why that is? Why do you attack faith but hide when its not looking good in your favior. Cause where ignorant, maybe your just really childesh and just go off when its not your way. Well If you dont believe then stop going and ruining it for others. If you wanna test something test your self. What do you believe? What can you do in this Life? What is best in life for you? These are questions you should focus on, not why Christians wanna tell me there is a God and that He loves me. Dont you have something better to do with your life then this? Please, its sad. If you dont like it then focus on something else, no one is forcing anything on you. So stop crying about it, cause your the only one that can change that.

elinthial, There is a difference between Dr. Phil and Jesus: the people that like Dr. Phil have (not yet, at least) acclaimed him as divine, the living Son of God. The people that knew Jesus best did. If there was not something extraordinary about Jesus, if he was just another failed, condemned and executed rabble-rouser or preacher, why? Why not just give up and go home? Because he gave them something that changed their life forever. And they found it even beyond death. That’s the difference. It was so important, they were even willing to die rather than give it up.

Is the faith a fraud? Ha! What did the disciples really get, but lots of hard work, persecution, and death? How many people die for a lie, for a fraud? The Apostles and many others did. Instead of many recanting their folly, only a few did.

As for the Bible being less credible because it has (doubtjully) remained unchanged for 2000 years, we now have scraps of texts from about the 120s, longer texts from later in the 100s, and (nearly) complete Bibles from by about 400. There are no major changes, other than scribe’s errors and emmendations, in that time. No, we have the texts from within a generation or two of when they were written, and that was within a generation or so from the actual experiences. They reflect some pretty good history, as interpreted by the faith of those who lived it.

I don’t see Christians as afraid of death, but rather as facing death with new confidence. I don’t see Christians as blaming others for their sins, but accepting the responsibility for their own sins, and doing something (in God) to heal the harm they’ve caused. Is this ignorance, or a new understanding of the world that sees more deeply and more accurately than ever before.

I agree with Chesterton: It is not that Christianity has been tried and found wanting. It is rather that too often it has been found difficult, and left untried.

Well I feel sorry for you if you think this is all there is.

The Bible is not fiction.

Just because you relate fictional characters to a true path that can be followed back through time suporting the truth of the Bible. Does not make it fictional it makes you narrow minded and naive to think you are it and that is all there is. You poor lost sole. Believe it or not!

Only TRUE joy can be found in Jesus. For one thing, Jesus didn’t live in Medi-eval times… And what do dragons and dinosuars have to do with Christianity??? The Bible is not fiction.. It has make many prophacies that have, in fact, come true. You said yourself you need to look at the facts. So what facts are you looking at? Talkin about dinosaurs and extiction and such, I hope you’re not basing your argument and Darwin’s theory of evolution. I hope someday you see what I’m saying, and find the truth. I’ll be praying for you!

Fact: Our whole calander system is based on a time Jesus died. Then came back to life.

Fact: The part of you that gives you life and a free spirit to choose came from some where. And it will go some where. We did not just happen!! We are given life.

Fact: It is so sad that you are nieve enough to think there is not life after death. Our spirit does live on.

Fact: The part of life God gave you to live is going back to him. How much of your free spirit goes with it is up to you that is the choice you make.

I hope and pray you come to realise this some day and receive the truth and God will set you free. Don’t worry some day you will see.

A caterpiller may think it is dying when it builds a cocoon then dies when it closes its tomb. Then in time becomes another life.

Accept God’s gift then share it with other. You will find life to be more rewarding and fun trully fun and full of life.

First of all if man was evolved from anything such as a monkey or squirrel, why then do monkeys and squirrels still exists? I thought a creature would evolve because it was necessary for them to survive. So that means that there should not be any monkeys left or whatever you think that man evolved from. People look for “cold hard” facts when trying to figure out if there is a God. He has given you proof through all of his creations. Look at the mountains, the human body, and the solar system. I find it hard to believe that a “big bang” made a planet that just happens to go around the sun in 365 days. Also for those that believe in evolution how do you explain everything else such as the planets? Where did they evolve from? Exactly. My friend has a dvd of an archeaologist that spent over a decade to find artifacts that proved that there is not a God. There were some things that he could not find, however the things that he did find lined up with what the bible teaches. That man is now a preacher. Back to the evolution theory if it is true, why dont we see it happening today. I dont see any monkeys having human babies. Most people have realized deep down inside that there is a God but they are scared to admit it. Or they may feel that being a christian is boring. I am here to confess that being a christian is not boring at all. The peace of mind knowing that my soul is going to be with God in heaven is a feeling that i can not describe.

There is only one church. The bible only mentions the church of christ. The other churches(baptist, lutheran,methodists, mormon etc..) are not even mentioned in the bible. Those are man made religions. Christ paid for the church through his blood, therefore the church is his. Hence the name church of christ.

God is not mean or ugly. He allows things to happen in your life to either get your attention, or to make you stronger. God does not deny homosexuals however, they do have to change their ways in order to please him.

There is so much i have to say but i will wrap it up for now. God has already proven that he exists, there is only one church and God wants to spare your soul on the day of judgement but you have to believe in him and do what he says.

Saying “Ignorance & religion walk hand-in-hand” is in itself and ignorant statement. Many, many highly educated and intelligent people were and are Christian. Isaac Newton was a Christian. So was Blaise Pascal, the creator of Calculus. I am a Computer Engineer. My good Christian friend is a microbiology professor at a very major university.

The statement that more people have died because of religion than any other reason is a myth. World War II, in which 70 million people died, was not fought because of religion. More Americans died in the Civil War than in any other; this war was not fought because of religion. Most people die of sickness or natural causes. Look up the leading causes of death - cancer, heart disease, old age, accidents.. not religious wars.

I do no blame my ‘sins’ on anyone other than me; I take responsibility for my own actions.

The more archaeological digs there are in the Middle East, the more accurate the Bible has proven to be. For years, skeptics doubted the existence of King David. Now, his existence is scientifically proven. For years, skeptics doubted the story of Joshua and the battle of Jericho. Archeology proved that the walls did come tumbling down. These are just two example.

If you want evidence, look at the people whose lives were changed for the better because of their conversion to Christ.

i dont like the above guys answer. i hate religion only because more people have died because of it than any other reason. your headline is true, it does walk hand in hand and the #s are shocking

Buddhism 96% Paganism 79% Islam 63% Hinduism 63% agnosticism 54% atheism 46% Christianity 38% Judaism 38% Satanism 33%

thats alot of ignint peeps. lol

Actually it’s not a fair argument to compare Doctor Phil with Jesus Christ. While I can understand why you would question the bible, I know that Doctor Phil didn’t die and raise again from the dead. No average human can do that! And you also made a statement that the Bible hasn’t changed. Actually the Bible has changed. There is both and old testament and a New testament along with ,I beleive, 600 different translations of it throughout the world. Originally it was only written in Greek and Hebrew. While it is true that it has been a long time since the bible has changed, you must understand that it took a rediculous amount of years for the Bible to even be written. This is because it was written very meticulousely and carefully. And even though a new Bible has not been written for a while, Many artifacts, such as ancient sea scrolls for just one example, have been found giving proof that the word of the Bible is infact real.

Whether you accept the fact or not, you are supporting my argument against Christianity. You are saying the same thing that I have been saying. You are saying the Bible is not fictional yet you cannot show me valid facts supporting your opinion. I am trying to point out this. A week ago I went to youth group, I questioned everything they were telling me. The Pastor called my parents and made me go home because I was disrupting their teachings. I have been to more than 20 churches and have had similiar treatment. I was even resented and was never shown the kindness that Pastors and church leaders were believed to have posessed. Because I was questioning what I was being “taught” I was a blasphemer and looked down upon. I am 15. I am still in the process of finding the truth, I am very wise. Now you are going to say, “Obviously not because what you are saying against God.” Now I am going to tell you this, do you know the difference between knowledge and wisdom ? Because the Bible teaches you knowledge, and I am pretty sure it says that. Now wisdom contradicts the knowledge The Bible is feeding you. You are fed all these facts so you cannot decipher : Wisdom from Knowledge, and vica versa. So your wisdom becomes distorted and in return your logic becomes distorted, your reasoning and problem solving abilities. If God says in the Bible that the Pawn in chess cant be moved two spaces forward on the first turn, even though the game was invented for war strategies and that is the only logical reason a pawn is there, then war would be much different today.

I can’t really answer this question, I’ve always felt people regardless of religion are blinded by their faith. As if I’m right and you’re wrong. I attend a Baptist church and what really gets to me is they(meaning most Christen churches) will not fellowship with a church just down the street, even when they teach basically the same thing, even don’t agree which bible is correct as if in most cases they call a bible the original KJV the only bible—I’ve read some excerpt’s from the original KJV and really couldn’t understand it. May I ask what version’s do Christian’s who speak a different language’s read and study?

I am a Christian, and I disagree with your argument. However, i don’t want you to think I’m pushing Christianity, I simply would like to point out a few things you might not have considered.

First of all, I do believe that you must have evidence to prove facts. The thing most people don't realize is the greatest evidence is right in front of our noses. You say you don't believe in a "higher power". Take a minute to look around you. Life forms, nature. How can any of this be possible without a higher power??? Take the human body for example. Scientists have studied it since as far back as we can trace. There are still mysteries. And humans have yet to find a way to create a human from scratch. How do you suppose we got here? Only some divine power could have thought of such a magnificent stucture, and put things together (organs, blood flow, etc) to work together in such a completely harmonious way. That in itself is significant evidence for a "higher power", a God. 
  Secondly, I noticed a lot of people saying that if there was a God, why does he let bad things happen to us?? Well, simply because God is not there to make our lives perfect. He never said that our lives would be. In fact, the Bible speaks about suffering. Romans 8:17, Having a relationship with Christ isn't about having a perfect life, but how you deal with those hard situations, and learning to be satified with the things you have. Philippians 4:11-13. 

To really understand the Bible you have to know the author, God. As with anything else, if you go into it with a critical mindset, you’re not going to get much out of it. You have to be opened minded. If you have any questions about anything I’ve said please write back.

to me religion is warfare, religion is crap, wut matters to me is the relationship you have with god not wut church u go to,if u follow the bible and follow gods word thats all that matters

The wonder of the universe around us and of our own minds is indeed overwhelming, but it seems to me that “God” is just a human concept invented to try to make sense of it. Existence is a profound and perhaps inherently impenetrable mystery, but I think ascribing it to an equally mysterious “creator” is just adding another layer – it doesn’t bring us any closer to true understanding.

But even if – for whatever reason – you believe God DOES exist, what would lead you to believe in one of the numerous human versions of God over another? People tend to believe in whatever religion they were brought up in; what would lead you to believe that you just happened to be born into the culture which got it right.

I think more important than the light discrepancies is the fact that you cannot create a species from just 2 people (A&E). There has to be a viable gene pool, otherwise the species will die out through inbreeding. Remember there were other hominids that evolved for awhile as well, but just didn’t make it. There are other animals, mammals mainly, that are almost as evolved, such as dolphins, but may just need more time to develop. Just because they don’t speak English doesn’t mean they aren’t intelligent and can’t talk to each other.

I’m just making a point. Though I’m a largely spiritual person, there is so far no perfect, completely correct religion, and religious texts are mainly just metaphors and fables, written by people trying to understand all the dichotomies around us and the human condition. There’s nothing that says evolution cancels out a spiritual reality, or vice versa. It’s sad that people have to tout their religious -heresy- as fact and force it on others.

No offense, but you have to look at what the bible says word for word… a luminary is not a source of light and neither is the moon. Originally, the sun and the moon were of equal size, since both were called “great,” but then the moon complained that two powers cannot share one realm. So God as Judge diminished its size. Because God diminished the size of the moon, God compensated it by creating additional heavenly bodies, the stars. Yeah, I’m not trying to be rude or anything, but I stand strong in my faith and no one and nothing can bring it down. Ye, Mr Smedheader is right in MANY things.

Well, you’ll have to come with something better if you want to contradict mr_smedheader, because he is right about many things (not completely right, though!) :D

P.S: He’s 100% right about the moon. About the rest…I don’t want to start over :P

my opinion i couldnt give a fuck how man was created !!!only that we have been .but for what purpose……i mean has earth truly benifuited from our existence????all we do is destroy the planet!!!!ughhhhhh and be incredibly stupid!!!haha anyways idk know why i said all that im bored and i needed and argument thnx ppl oh and dont comment this….its really not how i feel…not completely anyways…im just bored. p3ac3 -v-

He he…what a basic question. Please read again. Man has evolved indeed, but only in the long run, if we consider the huge amount of time of evolution. I am saying that it had was and then, of course, it’s evolved. But we are talking here about at least tens or hundreds thousand years. Evolution is right, of course, but only to some point. It explains how mankind has evolved, how it has survived (intelligence :P), but it cannot explain how mankind was created. This is clear. So I think in the first place man was created and then it’s evolved. It might also be possible that mankind was created in multiple instances, and this might be the result of the obvious differences among the races. Because it’s again unexplainable how man migrated from Africa to Asia or Europe, because the continents had split a long time before that and the rest should be obvious…impossible. Even if I were wrong here (I expect opinions), it is still obvious to me at least that mankind was first created and then it’s evolved into the little squirrels that ask us how to masturbate better :)) Just kidding here :P

I am not following the Bible, it is obvious :) The theory of evolution is mostly correct. If we listen to it, man evolved from some species of small animal, almost squirrel-like. That I don’t believe though. Changes in nature cannot be too important when you think in terms of intelligence, but can be great when you think in terms of adaptation. This is why man hasn’t evolved from a sea creature or some squirrel :D I don’t want to say more :D

Problem is tho that if you say species were different back then you agknowledge that god didnt create all animals as they are today and then you arent following the bible anyway :P

Great great comment, mr_smedheader. And mostly true, I really like it! First I have to tell you that I am not a religious person (but somehow spiritual). Yet, here are some of my beliefs: Religion has always been used as a pretext, true and it has mostly a social function (social institution) and so on, but it gives people an epitome and this is good. Clearly it was modified during the ages and probably entirely written by people, but…not all the facts in the Bible are fiction. I guess it has some good part of the truth in it, and the rest was invented according to…the needs :D Don’t forget that during the history of mankind, there were many works of the same kind, and they all have some things in common. Try reading a few books from Erich von Daniken, you will probably like them. They are good for all of you. Also, if you read Mahabharata, Ramayana, the Poem of Gilgamesh and so on, you will find some common points, although they were written long long before the Bible. So maybe like 5% of it is true, and the rest…belongs to the priests and to those who have copied it.

People have the need indeed for something…greater, to be guided/ruled?, because most of them are not up to it and because this way they escape the responsability of doing some things. You can see that before, the world was not as you see it today, and all that you mentioned are because of men’s fault. Homosexuality? Too large a subject to discuss here. I would talk for ages about these enormous topics.

I also believe that you don’t have the free choice that you think you have. You cannot choose almost or anything at all. I believe in fate. Proof: ask a gipsy /true fortune teller about your future and then try to change it. Really, that would be a life experiment! :D

Avoid the religious fanatics. They have a purpose for doing that. Believe what you want about religion, but my advice would be to avoid them.

Bye for now, I am curious about that test. It might be fun.

ok i cant contradict you nor back you up..but i do belive you hold a great point.i am still very young and i do not yet know what my religeous beliefs are.theyve baisically hoped around from one end to another for the past 3 years.the only thing i do belive in now…is myself and those around me.i agree that we alone hold they key to our success as well as to our failings.i do not belive that there is a god…nor do i wish there to be 1…but i dont belive every thing can be explained by science either.and although im not shure wheather god exists or not…i do think that ppl use him as a sort of escape…a place to put their sins and sorrows on instead of takin responseability.and as some sort of mask from what they fear. afterall if god hated homosexuals would he have let them be….and isint the idea of god that he accepts all of his children as they are as long as they are good? so why must all these religions ban homosexuals? how is it that they belive god can pardon a murderer or a rapist but condem a fag??? have these religions not all been wrong…or am i simply a liberist trying to accept the sin that is loving someone despite of their sex…or race? as ive said b4 im not shure what i belive….i have many thoughts and all of them vary and i sumtimes contradict myself well my state of mind is this. accept every1 and dont judge because they can just as easily judge you. well thats all for now ty -v-