freedom: An American thing?

Well, I certainly don’t think we should go in and force it on people, and I don’t think we should do it out of some sense of self-righteousness, like Cuba and Spain. That’s partially what started the Spanish-American war. If there is a significant minority of people already taking active action against an oppressive government, and that government is a threat to the countries surrounding it, then I think we should be willing to take advantage of the situation. But if the people don’t want it, or aren’t willing to take action for it, any government we help set up will crumble for lack of support and apathy of its supporters.

“Those Iraqi civilian casuality numbers are inflated and include all iraqi’s deaths including combat and natural causes.”

The way those numbers are calculated is based on polling of Iraqi households. The same method used to determine the death toll from major disasters, like the tsunami. It doesn’t matter how they died. They are dead because of the war, even if it is not a direct result of combat. The number of deaths per household increased dramtically after the war. If we had not invaded hundreds of thousands of people would not have died, bottom line.

“Besides, you make it sound as though Americans have killed “hundreds of thousands” of civilians.”

Never said that. Bush’s decision to invade Iraq is what killed them. Once that decision was made, everything that happened after that decision is still his responsibility. If I believed in hell, I am sure there would be a special place reserved for Bush and Cheney.

“Terrorist bombs have done that.”

Terrorist bombs that didn’t exist until after we invaded, and had we not invaded, would not have killed anyone.

“The stats speak for themselves in this victory.”

Hundreds of thousands killed is a real and verifiable stat. And those hundreds of thousands died because of non-existent WMDs. Is that really a victory? For who?

“The truth is coming out, Bush was right in his quest for a democracy foothold in the middle east. your side was wrong this time.”

Truth is in the eye of the beholder. Bush did not have a quest for democracy, he had a quest for oil and bloodlust.

“Plus, all the whiie we have been fighting over there we have attracted the enemy to their shores.

Wasn’t that so nice of us to do that for the Iraqi people. I am sure they didn’t mind the fact that hundreds of thousands of there family and friends died so we, in the US, can feel a little safer.

C’mon freefromself, that was a load of BS.

Well said freefromself. Wether or not you agree with the Iraq war shouldnt be the issue here, now its a matter of wether or not you believe they deserve freedom.

I dont care who’s fault it is. let me rephrase my question for you America Haters.

Are the Iraqi people better off now than they were before Saddam? Even though rogue elements of our Government used Saddam (hypothetically) against the big picture in the 1960’s (commusim), are they not a freer people?

We did what we thought we had to do back then to thwart the spread of communism, and from The soviets from taking over the world. We succeeded too!

Now I’m gonna eat my oatmeal, Love ya Utopia! :)

No, the Iraqi people are not better off than they were under Saddam. Ask the families of the hundreds of thousands who have died because of this war. I am sure they would rather have their loved ones back. This war did nothing to make the lives of the Iraqis any better. In fact it made it far far worse. Saddam was terrible to his people in the past, but at the time of the invasion he was virtually powerless to do anything. And freedom for Iraqis was only an afterthought. It was supposed to be about keeping us safe from terrorism, and it did nothing on that front either.

Those Iraqi civilian casuality numbers are inflated and include all iraqi’s deaths including combat and natural causes. Besides, you make it sound as though Americans have killed “hundreds of thousands” of civilians. Terrorist bombs have done that. The stats speak for themselves in this victory. The truth is coming out, Bush was right in his quest for a democracy foothold in the middle east. your side was wrong this time. Plus, all the whiie we have been fighting over there we have attracted the enemy to their shores.

freefromself…you will make the perfect soldier, the first thing they teach you is to stop thinking for yourself. I see that you have already done that.

“Do you even know what life was like for the average Iraq family during Saddams rule? “

If the American government thought that Saddam was so horrible…why did we help put him into power.

Former U.S. diplomats, British scholars and former U.S. intelligence officials have confirmed that Saddam Hussein was appeased by different United States governments. Saddam was seen in the past by the U.S. as a bulwark of anti-communism in the 1960s, and as a counterweight to Iran in the 1980s.

Hussein’s first contacts with U.S. officials date back to 1959, when he was part of a CIA-authorized six-man squad tasked with assassinating then Iraqi Prime Minister Abdul Karim Qassim.

In 1980, Iraq started the war against Iran with a blitzkrieg attack. The tide had turned by 1982 in favor of much larger Iran, and the Reagan administration was afraid Iraq might lose. Reagan chose Donald Rumsfeld as his emissary to Hussein, whom he visited in December 1983 and March 1984.

After the visit, the Reagan administration offered Hussein financial credits that eventually made Iraq the third-largest recipient of US assistance. The CIA and DIA relation with Hussein intensified. The CIA regularly sent a team to Hussein to deliver battlefield intelligence obtained from Saudi AWACS surveillance aircraft, Iraq used this information to target Iranian troops with chemical weapons.

Under President George H.W. Bush, the U.S. doubled its financial credits for Iraq. Dick Cheney, who was secretary of defense and a statutory member of the National Security Council that reviewed Iraq policy, supported the administration’s appeasement policy.

Saddam was a cruel, heartless dictator…that WE helped put in place. Now we are spending millions, upon millions of dollars and wasting countless lives to repair the damage that WE helped create.

Quit your flag waving…WE helped create this mess… WE helped him have the power to torture those Iraqi families.

lol, how would you know what the real number is? not to mention the buildings destroyed, cities destroyed, people left homeless and starving… what gives you the right to decide what is best for other people?

“Quit your flag waving…WE helped create this mess… WE helped him have the power to torture those Iraqi families.” -Are you suggesting that we not fix our mistakes? How irresponsible.

“What gives you the right to decide what is best for other people?” -What gave our founding fathers the right to free us? It was from moral obligation that even kids were willing to give up their lives so that people like you could live in prosperity rather then tyranny.

This is compassion that liberals do not have the wisdom to comprehend. We believe that life in fear and oppression is not a life worth living. Liberalism is rarely quoted because liberalism is rarely brave.

It is one thing to clean up our mess and quite another to leave something in worse condition… America’s unwavering belief that WE know what is best for everyone else is an egoism that we can no longer afford and should never have inflicted upon the world.