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I would like to know where the editor gets her number of a billion people that President Bush is responsible for murdering in Iraqi and Afganistan? I don't believe there are a billion people in the 2 countries combined.
"One again I see a lot of people who are very obviously misinformed. We are doing good in Iraq."
I believe it is you who are misinformed. We are doing good if you only cherrypick your facts.
"If we pulled out now you cant take the bllod shed over there and multiply it by ten."
This only an opinion, and not a well informed one. There is not one shred of evidence that this would happen.
"I understand most of you only here what the news tells you therefore you do see only the bad things going on."
The news here practically ignores Iraq. If the news were telling the true story of what is going on there, we would have been out a long time ago.
"Our soldiers our putting there life on the line to make Iraq a safer place for the people who live there. "
You have that half right. Our soldiers are definately putting their lives on the line, and their is no amount of phony flag waving that will demonstrate the gratitutde we should all have for our soldeirs. But they are NOT there to make sure Iraq is safe for the people. Bush has them there to make sure it is safe for the oil companies to get a hold of their resources.
"We have set up a number of clinics to help out families who need to be treated or seen. "
I am sure they actually acheive somethings, but there has been little progress in rebuilding their infrastructure. Maybe if we stopped giving those jobs to foregin contractors, and actually put the Iraqis to work they might make some progress.
"There have been many terrorist detained just this month alone. "
First off, there are very few real terrorists in Iraq. Most of the people we are fighting are Iraqi's who want us to leave. But Bush would have you believe they are all Al Qaeda. It is just not true. There are estimates that put the actual number of Al Qaeda at a couple of hundred at most.
"We have seized multiple weapons used to make explosives."
It doesn't seem like it is making much of a difference.
"Our troops are teaching the Iraqi soldiers to fight ,rescue, and rebuild."
So, after five years in Iraq, how is that going?
"There are now citizens who are reporting suspected activity to our troops and Iraqi troops. They are actually working to help us make there world a better place. The main people who want us out of there are the terrorist because they dont want our troops stoping them."
Again the terrorist / insurgent confusion. You need to get your facts straight. We are not fighting terrorists. When we leave, the few actually terrorists there will be driven out by the iraqis themselves.
"Iraqi people in East Rashid held elections on March 5th to determine who would represent them to the Government in Iraq."
The Iraqi government is a weak puppet of the US.
"More than 1300 Iraqi recruits completed training to start patroling the streets of Baghdad. That is just the latest. There was a class of over 2400 before this one. Iraqis are helping now secure there land. "
That doesn't sound like a lot when we 140,000 troops there.
"They need our help."
We are not helping. We are making things much worse.
"Our troops are leaving here,leaving behind there home and there families.They are paying the ultimate sacrifice for there country and our people. This is there job. It is hard on them to leave but I imagine it is even harder when they see people who say they are waisting there time."
No one is denying the sacrifice our soldiers are making, so please stop with that crap. The problem I have is with the meglamaniacs who are ordering them to fight and die for nothing but greed. If it were only time that were being wasted, no one would care.
"We should have gotten the job done when we were there during Dessert Storm. We are there again and if we pull out now we will be back in another 10 years when they attack us again. "
You have the nerve to say anti-war people are misinformed, and they say something like this. You say they will attack us "again". TELL ME, WHEN DID IRAQ EVER ATTACK US??? In dessert storm we had an international mandate to drive Saddam out of Kuwait. That was it, and even Bush Sr. knew that if we indvaded Iraq it would lead to a quagmire.
"Setting a timetable would make us all feel better but what will happen when they set that timetable and we arent done?"
We are done, there is nothing left that our occupation can accomplish.
"My husband just left last month for his 2nd deployment I want him home too. My kids and our family want them home. The other families I know want there spouse, son, daughter, daddy or whatever they may be home."
I am very, very sorry to hear that. I hope he remains safe. Of course, everyone wants them home, and they should be brought home ASAP.
"We also have pride in what they do. we get the news most do not. We get the good and bad"
You are not getting all the news if you think there is just as much good news as bad.
"Take this info how youd like but I stand behind our military and Bush."
Standing behind the military and standing behind bush are not the same thing. If you stand behind the troops, you should not want to see their lives wasted for greed. If you stand behind Bush, you are also standing behind the Saudis and the oil industry.
One again I see a lot of people who are very obviously misinformed. We are doing good in Iraq. If we pulled out now you cant take the bllod shed over there and multiply it by ten. I understand most of you only here what the news tells you therefore you do see only the bad things going on. Our soldiers our putting there life on the line to make Iraq a safer place for the people who live there. We have set up a number of clinics to help out families who need to be treated or seen. There have been many terrorist detained just this month alone. We have seized multiple weapons used to make explosives.Our troops are teaching the Iraqi soldiers to fight ,rescue, and rebuild. There are now citizens who are reporting suspected activity to our troops and Iraqi troops. They are actually working to help us make there world a better place. The main people who want us out of there are the terrorist because they dont want our troops stoping them.Iraqi people in East Rashid held elections on March 5th to determine who would represent them to the Government in Iraq.More than 1300 Iraqi recruits completed training to start patroling the streets of Baghdad. That is just the latest. There was a class of over 2400 before this one. Iraqis are helping now secure there land. They need our help. Our troops are leaving here,leaving behind there home and there families.They are paying the ultimate sacrifice for there country and our people. This is there job. It is hard on them to leave but I imagine it is even harder when they see people who say they are waisting there time. We should have gotten the job done when we were there during Dessert Storm. We are there again and if we pull out now we will be back in another 10 years when they attack us again. Setting a timetable would make us all feel better but what will happen when they set that timetable and we arent done? My husband just left last month for his 2nd deployment I want him home too. My kids and our family want them home. The other families I know want there spouse,son,daughter,daddy or whatever they may be home.We also have pride in what they do. we get the news most do not. We get the good and bad. Take this info how youd like but I stand behind our military and Bush.
"interesting that you would exzaggerate about peoples lives for effect. I would like to know where you get the numbers from. "
See the Lancet study.
"The million five hundred thousand would more likely be the result of Sadam Huseins evil practices and killings."
No, that is since 2003.
"Sadam back in the late 70's used nerve agent on his neighboring country Iran and killed over 3,000 in 1 attack. There have been countless mass grave sites found where he did mass killings of his own people and you have the odasity to say that George Bush is a murderer. We needed to take out Sadam. "
So you think taking him out was worth another million lives? Would those people have died had we not invaded. No one doubted the brutality that Saddam showed in the past. But he wasn't doing that in 2003 when we invaded. The question is not whether Saddam deserved to be brought to justice. That answer is obvious. The question is was it worth all the blood and treasure to bring him to justice (not that he actually got any justice).
"You have no idea what the cost of freedom is. Those people over there are greatful that we have liberated them."
Uh... no they are not. They think their country is far worse off now, and want us to leave.
"We as of this weekend lost 4,000 american troops and that is a tragedy, but no one made them enlist it is voluntary. They knew the risks. I hate it for their families and them but I understand very well the cost for I am a veteran of Desert Storm. Be careful listening to the liberal media who only want to paint a picture to propogate their aggenda."
So because they volunteer, they deserve what ever they get. Our leaders who made these terrible decisions whould be held acountable, and so far no one, including the dems is willing to do that.
And the only "liberal media" I know of is Air America radio, and The Nation magazine, and a few blog sites. Everything else is out and out right wing propaganda arms, or corportate controlled media, which are anything but liberal.
to those of you that think we did a great thing by removing saddam hussein, I quote a MSNBC report
'The last time Donald Rumsfeld saw Saddam Hussein, he gave him a cordial handshake. The date was almost 20 years ago, Dec. 20, 1983; an official Iraqi television crew recorded the historic moment. The once and future Defense secretary, at the time a private citizen, had been sent by President Ronald Reagan to Baghdad as a special envoy. Saddam Hussein, armed with a pistol on his hip, seemed 'vigorous and confident,' according to a now declassified State Department cable obtained by NEWSWEEK. Rumsfeld 'conveyed the President's greetings and expressed his pleasure at being in Baghdad,' wrote the notetaker. Then the two men got down to business, talking about the need to improve relations between their two countries. Like most foreign-policy insiders, Rumsfeld was aware that Saddam was a murderous thug who supported terrorists and was trying to build a nuclear weapon. (The Israelis had already bombed Iraq's nuclear reactor at Osirak.) But at the time, America's big worry was Iran, not Iraq. The Reagan administration feared that the Iranian revolutionaries who had overthrown the shah (and taken hostage American diplomats for 444 days in 1979-81) would overrun the Middle East and its vital oilfields. On the-theory that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, the Reaganites were seeking to support Iraq in a long and bloody war against Iran. The meeting between Rumsfeld and Saddam was consequential: for the next five years, until Iran finally capitulated, the United States backed Saddam's armies with military intelligence, economic aid and covert supplies of munitions.
we helped put him into power...we left him in power when it worked to our advantage...and we have lost 4,000 troops and at least 15x that many civilians in this horrible war.
HONOR OUR TROOPS...BRING THEM HOME
tsk, tsk, tsk...
rnealw, you really shouldn't spout off like that unless you know what your talking about.
Look up cheney energy task force. And not only did they meet, they met many times, and there have been many attempts to get information about them through the freedom of information act. Including the governement accountablity office. The GAO actually sued to get the records released, but a bush appointed judge dismissed it. Then the conservative Judicial Watch sued for release of the documents in 2002, and the court ordered the government to release all documents realted to the task force. They are still in noncompliance with the court order today. The only thing they released was some documents and maps from meetings in March 2001. Among those maps and charts were ones of Iraq with all the oil resources and how they were to be distributed.
Boy that is a lot of information for a meeting that never happened.
As far as the oil Iraq is producing, they are no where near peak production. And we are the ones paying for the reconstruction. But it is all about production sharing agreements, and that is what the energy task force was all about. Except they divided it all up even before 9/11. So cheney knew they were going to invade Iraq. 9/11 just gave them the excuse.
As far as supply and demand, you are half correct. Yes demand has gone up because of china and india, but it has not increased demand by 300%. The supply is being manipulated by Opec and the Saudis (good pals of the bush's) in order to increase the demand, and thus make more money.
Let me ask you this. Do you think it is ok to continue to give oil companies tax breaks while they are making record profits during a time of war? Don't you think they should pay a windfall profit tax?
Now, who were you saying should get their facts straight?
Justsearching, I could care less about the ratings of FAKE News and CNN. Neither has any real integrity when it comes to reporting news. If they did, this war would be over already. Are you really trying to say that the majority of Americans think this war is going good, and want us to stay? If so, you are sadly misinformed. By far, the percentage of terrorist acts comitted in this country are done by non-muslims. Yes, it was muslims who attacked us on 9/11. But 99.999% of muslims are not terrorists. Being suspicious of whole race of people, because a very tiny tiny number is being racist. And most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis. None were Iraqi, so why are we there? Don't give me any crap about Saddams non-compliance. He was in complete compliance, with inspectors on the ground and completely unhindered. Bush attacked anyway.
rnealw, Dick Cheney had secret energy policy meeting with the oil industry prior to 9/11. At that meeting they basically wrote the US energy policy and part of it was carving up a map of Iraq showing which companies would get what resources. They had their eyes on Iraq long before they took office. Cheney is now trying to get the oil revenue sharing agreement done before he leaves office. If you don't think this war is about oil, do you think it is just a coincidence that the administration is headed by two oilmen, and the price of gas has tripled since the war started?
You guys have a lot to learn. Start with the Project for a New Amercian Century.
Justsearching, I wasn't avoiding the question, I was responding to a post. Armywife wasn't answering the question either. You don't seem to mind that though. I never once said anything disparaging about our soldiers or what they do. So your little tirade there is quite off the mark. My problem is with the people using our soldiers as cannon fodder so they can fill their pockets. And of course you take the typical right-wing knuckle-draggers approach of avoiding the substance of my post, and just calling me a coward and unpatriotic. Those tactics aren't fooling people any more. Well I guess they are fooling some people, like you and rnealw. But you are a tiny minority. Not that it matters one bit to me what you think, but what possible difference would it make that I was a muslim? Are you suggesting only muslims are against this war, or that I am somehow a terrorist because I am a muslim? Your racism is showing. BTW, I am a recovering catholic of irish descent.
rnealw, I get my facts from all over. I watch and read all news, including FOX Noise, and Blimpaugh. I read the times sometimes too. You know the paper that had judy miller with front cover stories that lied about saddam WMD capabilities. And CNN is only slightly better than FAUX News. There is no such thing as the "liberal media". It is a myth created by the knuckle-draggers. Our media is currently controlled by huge corporations looking for favors from the governemnt. They have no objectivity.
justsearching... I don't know about jimahl but my son served (against my wishes). he graduated from college and moved to colorado where he begin to work doing wilderness search and rescue. he wanted to go to international s & are and decided that he would do better with some military experience. this was in 2000. he joined the army and went on to become an airborne ranger. he went to afganistan and then to iraq. he did his duty, just as you did in desert storm. but I will tell you this, he is against this war and has told me numerous times that it is poorly planned and executed. he feels that we should have gone into afganistan but NEVER into iraq. yes, he enlisted. yes, he knew the risks. but to put it in his own words he NEVER thought that he would be a pawn of his own government. he knows many other soldiers that feel the same. afganistan - yes iraq - no desert storm lasted from august 1990 - february 1991 and produced 148 battle-related deaths and another 145 Americans died in out-of-combat accidents. . seven months, 148 battle related deaths. we are in a war that has already left 4,000 dead and countless injured (my son is one) they might have understood the risks but they did not understand the reason they were asked to take them.
justsearching - 'If you haven't ever served in the US Military then you have no concept as to why soldiers do what they do. They are willing to lay down their life for freedom.'
my son served. he joined the army and went on to become an airborne ranger. he went to afganistan and then to iraq. he is against this war and has told me numerous times that it is poorly planned and executed. he feels that we should have gone into afganistan but NEVER into iraq.
justsearching - 'All you want to do is protest the war from a cowards position. You opinion dosen't mean anything because you are a coward. You aren't willing to make a sacrifice for freedom because your too busy hiding behind those who provide it for you.'
my son protests this war and he is not a coward. he served at great cost. he is now disabled. he protests this war because he came to realize that we are in the wrong war. we are NOT fighting terrorists. we are in a war about oil rights. a war that has already left 4,000 dead and countless injured. he NEVER thought that he would be a pawn of his own government. my son, the disabled war veteran, believes afganistan - yes iraq - no
and cut the racism. don't pull a "bush" and equate a muslim with a terrorist.
amoeba I never said your son was a coward. If he dosen't support then I respect his opinion because he did what was asked of him. The individual I said that to dosen't understand what it means to follow orders. Your son did it because that is what he said he would do under oath, I have great respect for him and am very proud that he served. My problem is with people who aren't willing to do anything but complain.
As far as us going into Iraq we needed to simply because under the last 8 year administration Sadam refused to follow the agreement in the treaty. He was in violation of that treaty. We did not need the rest of the worlds permission, you would know this if you were to read the agreement that Sadam signed. I mam was in the first one (desert shield and desert storm). Its too bad that we had a president who was more concerned about his sexual life more than the country he was elected to serve. He by the way was handed Bin Laden several times and never acted on it. Had he done that 911 would never had happened.
I salute your son's sacrifice and respect his opinion because he is a man of honor. My hat is off to him and to you for raising a son who followed his commitment whether he agreed or not.
interesting that you would exzaggerate about peoples lives for effect. I would like to know where you get the numbers from. The million five hundred thousand would more likely be the result of Sadam Huseins evil practices and killings. Sadam back in the late 70's used nerve agent on his neighboring country Iran and killed over 3,000 in 1 attack. There have been countless mass grave sites found where he did mass killings of his own people and you have the odasity to say that George Bush is a murderer. We needed to take out Sadam.
You have no idea what the cost of freedom is. Those people over there are greatful that we have liberated them. We as of this weekend lost 4,000 american troops and that is a tragedy, but no one made them enlist it is voluntary. They knew the risks. I hate it for their families and them but I understand very well the cost for I am a veteran of Desert Storm. Be careful listening to the liberal media who only want to paint a picture to propogate their aggenda.
I can't believe you really believe that propaganda jimahl. . . I suggest you enroll in a collage and take some business courses and learn about supply and demand. The only secret about the meeting you mentioned is it never happened. The people of Iraq get the profit from oil in Iraq ( Public schools and other things we in america enjoy like enectricity.) and you would know that if you only studied creditable resources. the major reason for Gas prices is supply and demand. China and India have more tripled the amount of gas and oil they are using. . . that's Half the worlds population wanting a tank of Gas along with the 15% that was Already using it. . . You got a lot to learn about the free market jimahl. . . I suggest you study fact and not National Inquirer and the gossip column.
once again Jimahl you avoid the question. Its like voting if you aren't going to vote then your opinion dosen't mean anything. If you haven't ever served in the US Military then you have no concept as to why soldiers do what they do. They are willing to lay down their life for freedom. All you want to do is protest the war from a cowards position. You opinion dosen't mean anything because you are a coward. You aren't willing to make a sacrifice for freedom because your too busy hiding behind those who provide it for you. People like you make me sick. With a name like yours on this site I wouldn't be supprised if you aren't from a muslim background. Maybe you are just one of the ones that are trying to stir up strife.
Tell the people ahat died on 911 and the organization still exist that this war is meaningless. . . . Tell the Children in Iraq who have electricity for the first time it's a meaningless war. Tell the same children who now attend school on a regular bases it's worthless. . . Tell the Child who lost his mother of father in the terrorist attack on 911 it's worthless. . . . .. armywife06 tell your husband we are prayng for him and his battalion. in My book those who want us to withdraw have already sided with the terrorist and that includes msnbc and CNN. . . . .
"I never said they deserved anything. I said they understood the risk. If you aren't up to the task don't sign up. It's that simple. Let me ask you have you (jimahl) ever served in the military?"
Your comment that no one made them enlist, sort of implies that their death's are their own fault for enlisting in the first place. One does not need to have served to know that we lost 4000 soldiers in war based on lies and greed. Nor does it mean my judgement is any less than someone who has served.
I hate to tell you we are not a minority Jimahl. And FOX News' ratings are far higher than CNN's. Oh just so you know I am not a racist, but I do have my suspicions with people with a middle eastern desent. After all those who flew the planes into the pentagon and the towers live here and most thought they were good people until their true reason for being in this country was revealed on 911.
No, actually it's Hyperbole.
Exaggeration for effect.
In reality at least 832,962 people have been killed, and 1,590,895 seriously injured in Afghanistan and Iraq. This is civilian deaths, not military deaths.
So it's about a million killed and 2.5 million injured. Close enough to a billion for it to be absolutely abhorrent, in my opinion.
justsearching - you stated that jimahl was a coward and that his opinion wasn't anything because he didn't serve. that is a load of crap...EVERYONEs OPINION MATTERS!!! my son will never recover from this hellish war that bush LIED to get us into.
Of course 1 loss of life is tragic - but in perspective, the loss compared to the loss in WWII...1 % - how long would it take to match the Viet Nam loss...65 years - excellent answer armywife06...Take care !!
I never said they deserved anything. I said they understood the risk. If you aren't up to the task don't sign up. It's that simple. Let me ask you have you (jimahl) ever served in the military?
jimahl, I guessing you get you facts from the new york times and CNN or aljazeera. . I would take Armywife06's Answers over the liberal media any day. . . Keep us informed Armywife06
I was just thinking of the impact 2 billion deaths would have on a worls population of 6.6 billion people. . . . . . that would be like wiping out the population of africa. . .
I still don't see how this war is about oil rights. someone please explain it. . . . then show me how china and india tie in to it. . . .
Personally I'd rather fight this war over there than over here. . And here is where it will be if we stop fighting it over there. . .
Is the 'editor' Brittish? A 'billion' is 1,000,000 in Brittain, whereas it's 1,000,000,000 in the US.
right on, editor. one killed was one too many.
New-Age math ?
