A world without religion?

Quoting the bible at a non-believer isn’t particularly convincing. I really hope it’s obvious why…

Do you thik the world would be a better place without religion?

…without religion? Not really.

…without religion ABUSE? Definitely!

leellen: Because the bible doesn’t actually make any testable predictions. At best, it records historical events.

Well, let’s see…

First of all, there’s no general agreement as to who exactly it describes in the first place. Christians believe it describes Jesus, while Jews believe it describes an as-yet-absent king.

More to the point, given that there’s no evidence for the historicity of Jesus as described in the new testament, the best explanation is that the writers of the new testament, being familiar with Isaiah, and with only second-hand records of what really happened, wrote the gospels so as to fit the prophecy as closely as possible.

For someone who does not believe in the bible/God I would have this to say: If you read the bible which you have shown you have, how do you explain that which was written before in the bible of future events, has happened. From the patriarchs to the prophets to Christ and looking forward to the end of world events things have happened as prophecied. From the Jews going into captivity, rejecting their Messiah, and Gentiles abtaining blessing through Christ ect… “The bible is an anvil that has wornout many an athiest hammer.”

leellen: I’m afraid all the jews disagree with you. And you have only your own interpretation of the same scripture that says they’re wrong. Hardly solid.

“You say the best explanation is that the gospels were written to follow suit with the Old Testement. Why? The writers of the gospel plus the writers of the epistles were martyred for their faith.”

Because they wanted Jesus to be the person prophesised in Isaiah. So they made the facts ‘fit’ as best they could. And well, if the records don’t quite fit what the prophecy says, since we know he’s the one in the prophecy, clearly the prophecy is correct, so just take that version of events.

“Without faith you cant begin to understand.”

And there is the ultimate problem with religion. When it comes to reality, whether or not you believe in it is irrelevant - the facts speak for themselves. With religion, it only seems to make sense if you’ve already deceived yourself into believing it’s true.

Faith is defined as belief without evidence - what you’re saying to me is, essentially, that unless I already believe it uncritically, I can’t understand it - which makes no sense. If I’m going to ‘have faith’, why not have faith in any number of other contradictory holy books?

Its not true because of what I say, its true because of what God said and did. Romans 1:19,20 “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible thing of him from the creation of the work are clearly seen, being understood by the thngs that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse;”

I think that man in a naturally religious animal. If there were no religions we would invent some quickly.

Religion is a double edged sword. It can inspire believers to be better, more loving, more conscientious people. It can also give them license to commit unspeakable atrocities (crusades, witch hunts, manifest destiny, etc).

Plato spoke of the Noble Lie. He felt that most people could not be trusted to act in their own and society’s best interest so he thought that citizens should be told that their place in society was decided by the gods. He felt that this was a useful tool to control people. Karl Marx observed that religion was the opiate of the masses; what he was saying here wasn’t a commentary on the veracity of religion but that it caused people to accept inequity. If you notice that many poor but religious people vote Republican; the Republican party is very good at using religion to convince people to vote against their own self interests. They tell believers that God is quite \upset about abortion, gays , and not allowing teachers to teach creationism in biology classes so vote for the GOP so they can cut social programs and give tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations..

leellen: Just because you (and others) say it doesn’t make it true. Fact is, there’s absolutely no evidence for that, and plenty of evidence that there’s no need to invoke a divine creator.

If there was no religion, never, without God, we wouldn’t be here and there would be no earth. God is the creator and maker of the universe.

I think the world would be a much nicer place without religion. You just have to look at all the atrocities (present and past) inspired by one religion or another to see that.

Of course, you’ll see a fairly clear division here: The theists will all say ‘no’, and the atheists will all say ‘yes’.

I think that without religion and faith that this world would be even more messed up than it is. We would have no morals or values to hold onto. Imagine if everyone thought it was okay to do whatever they wanted all the time? All Hell would break loose. Religion helps keep people in order, at least it has in my life and the lives of many others that I know.

I think there would be less arguments. Religion is an argument in itself and then all of the subcategories that come along with religions. Things like premarital sex, where you end up when death has struck, I cant think of other examples right now, but I hope you get the point..

If you ever come to actually know this man called Jesus… it will radically change your entire outlook on life, and you would never…ever… want to be anywhere where he is not.

well, I hate to disagree with you. I’m very religious, and it has helped my life. plus, it’s nice to have something to believe in.

It’s not necessarily religion, to me. It’s how narrow minded, prejudice, & rude some people are.

I don’t think it’s the religion…I agree with southern_bell. People can be very narrow-minded when their faith is being questioned.

I wouldn’t change my religion for any cause in the world…it’s the one religion that I have found that accepts all people and their differences, and there have not been any wars waged over the ideals of Buddhism.

Straight out of “Easy Rider”.. “If there were no God, man would invent one”. No I don’t think we’d be better off without it. Someone above thought the Pagens were alright, yea there have been a number of pagen cults and some religions that sacrificed humans and animals. I guess it’s ok if your not the young virgin, or the red headed step child that is to be sacrificed.

And oh flilletofspam, bringing politics into a simple religious question. Those poor Republicans may just have a belief that they want to earn their meager wage and spend it the way they want and not be taxed to death so all the government give-aways can occur. Many of them have the shameful attitude that honest hard work gets rewarded and don’t believe on sitting on their duffs waiting for an “entitlement” handout.

Without biblical religion, not to sound shruid. The pagans were happy & didn’t start wars over their religion. BUt yeah, agreed, it would be a lot better. Way back when in the beginning we didn’t have it & we were just fine.

agreed with southern bell Amblessed, christains have less morals than most other people I know & silverwings, you’re half right, I came to know Jesus, it radicaly changed my life, & that’s why I’m NOT where he is. Perhaps you should take your own advise & get to know him a better yourself.

The religious impulse in humans is a powerful thing and we abuse it, like we abuse all forms of power in one way or another. But, it’s hard for me to imagine humans without some kind of religion. I’d have to say that we would not be better without religion. (Disregarding that I’m a Christian, and therefore have a distinct point of view on the topic.) We would invent some guiding principle to direct our system of ethics and mores, and I think that would soon become a “religion” in itself.

There’s no way of knowing, but it seems to me that a world without religion would be a world more focused on reality and less prone to blind belief across the board.

In my own life, when I finally broke free from religious brainwashing, it changed my outlook on life completely - for the good IMHO. I am much less inclined to engage in fallacious thinking now than I was before.

there you go

The Point of religion was to expalin things, this grew to worship and so on. Now we have science. Religion is now about spiritalty wich is impportant. its the raqdicals and fundelmentalest that take it to far

One example: Read Isiah 53, and tell me who that represents.

I agree with punkrocker4ever… God gives me faith when I feel like giving up

yes

No rules or values to live by, Great !!…if chaos is the order of the day.