Who believes that the world would be better off without religion?

Not me, I’m not at all religious, hoever religion gives people hope and a world with hope is often better than one without,regardless of the validity of their beliefs. I do however believe that the world would be a lot better without so much intolerance.

But religion is also the reason for wars… :( I am christian but not very religious…

And so is intolerance. Religious intolerance, atheist intolerance, racial intolerance. There are countless religions who hasn’t started wars, I don’t think that people not believing in something is necessarily good, I just wish they would edit their beliefs somewhat sometimes to be more accepting of the people around them.

Very true! But I am tired of people not giving other religions a chance when really all religions aren’t all that different!

Then set the example yourself. Be tolerant of everyone and that is what you’ll get back.

I am very tolerant! Actually tolerant isn’t the right word… It makes me sound like the other religions annoy me! I believe that anybody should believe in any religion they want UNLESS that religion is about harming people or something like that…

Nope, a lot of people need religion. I think it’s the extremists of every religion we could do without.

Hard to say. As a culture we do need a shared set of values to draw upon; throughout most of our civilized history religion has provided these values. During the Renaissance the stranglehold that religion had on Western civilization was broken and a more humanist philosophy arose that man has natural rights to liberty, equality and brotherhood. While these lofty ideals gave us things like the US constitution that grants us equality under the law and says that government itself is also subject to the rule of law (in theory anyway); as a culture we seem to be sliding back toward religion. The West has been becoming more and more religious in various revivals since the Renaissance. The values of the Renaissance are no longer held as the highest ideals and we seem to be sliding toward another set of dark ages. The Renaissance can be seen as an experiment where the role of religion diminished but it may not be sustainable.

i used to believe that i’m not religious at all still am not. if u look at the past many wars are fought over religion. but then when i look at my parents and other people who r r religious i see that sometimes its the religion that they believe in that make their life a tad bit easier or hopeful. i see religion as an escapegoat for people so that people can cope . so i believe world needs religion.

I think that the world would be WAY better off if

• people took their religion less seriously.
• religions worked without leaders.

The problem is that religious leaders will, more often than not, be not really more religious than their followers but instead manipulative people who use their position to increase their power over others.

People who are mildly religious often find happiness or comfort in their faith. But people who are fanatically religious will kill and die for their religion.

Manipulative, power-lusting religious leaders and fanatic, determined, manipulable religious followers make an especially dangerous combination.

Damn Sheep! You are so smart! …I kneel before you :P But on a serious note… I agree with you. People should tone it down sometimes!

I’ll take that as a compliment… I just hope you don’t want to become a fanatic follower of ME now. ;)

You are absolutely right, but I think a lot of the sliding back is due more to religion being used as a political tool by people who don’t really share those beliefs. They are more than willing to use religiosity to whip up the citizenry. They pander to the believers, and they solidify the support among these people by making false claims about their freedom of religion being infringed by secularists. They go so far as to claim that our constitution doesn’t really include separation of church and state.

I think religion had a role to play in the past. I no longer see it as a positive influence on today’s society. I see it being used more as a political tool than anything.

It isn’t just religious leaders that use religion in this way. Political leaders do too.

yeah this is so true! Thanx guys! I love to hear people who are really well educated! every time i try to express my point it comes out wrong!

The world would be a better place without religion. I’m an atheist and (if you believe otherwise then just ignore my comment :) ok) religions are pointless. I believe religion is used to scare people into doing what’s “right” or “holy” or whatever. Without religion people will be able to do much more of what they’d like to do. Some people can’t go places, read certain things, watch certain things, or even eat certain things because of their religion. Some people are also hated because of their religion. Without religion there would have never been a Holocaust, the amount of wars would have been cut by like 78% and people would be free. But that’s just my opinion. If you don’t agree then that’s fine :) Everyone is entitled to their own opinion :D

According to Jesus’ words as stated in Mathew 7:13,14, there are only TWO religions: the one leading to life and the one leading to destruction. I firmly believe that the world would be better off without the religion that leads to death. Does it sound logical to you?

This world would be better off everyone sticked to the original religion (Christian) and not make-up a million new ones. That way there would be no religiousness fights or anything. I don’t understand way people decided to randomly make new religions.

I hate to tell you this, but there were lots of religions long before christianity. Christianity has only been around for 2000 years. Judaism predates that by another 2000 years or so. If you want to stick to the original religion, it would probably be sun worshipers… So you think we are better off with religion in the world, as long as that religion is yours? How magnanimous of you…

yeah i agree with jimahl, your comment was very closed minded and ignorant, i think all religions are correct and all religious people will be accepted by god because that is who they pray to. One god millions of interpretations, so crawl out of your rock and breath in acceptance

i think you need to look up the word atheist because atheism itself is an idea but many religions are atheistic so i think you mean you are non-religious. ANd yes religion does cause many of these terrors but thats only people the try to mess with religion, religion within itself isnt bad

I think that religion is necessary to society to maintain stability and to promote charity, but the politics of religions have gotten in the way of everything. By forcing the I’m right you’re wrong, so convert, the religious leaders have just caused everyone to separate themselves. AT the base of all religion is brotherhood, charity and kindness, these things improve the values of people and creates a kinder world, but only intolerance can make religion a positive thing again. With great hate between religions the only effects of religion is negative and that’s a sad truth

rofl.

I’m talking about the very beginning of earth. Everybody believed in God… and then quickly people starting believing in idols…ect. If everybody just sticked to God we would be better off.

not at all, when things turn bad, people need someone or something bigger than them to believe in, lean on, and something to give them faith. Without religion who are we going to lean on, look to for hope, or believe in? Each other? Because then you would be saying someone is bigger than another, and it would all be a mess. Even if god is not real, we all need something to believe in, depend on, and give us faith.

Wrong, not everyone believed in the christian god. In fact the majority of people on this planet did not, and do not believe in the christian god. You really need to open your eyes more. The world is lot bigger than you seem to think.

Most people do believe in something, and it doesn’t have to be a god. I believe in the love I have for my family and friends, and the love they have for me. That is more than enough for me to lean on. I do not need to lean on a hope that there is some omnipotent being out there watching over us. I see no proof that this being actually exists, so I will not waste my time believing in it. My family and friends are far more important to me.

Yeah there are more Muslims than Christians! Christians come in 2nd place!

Slashdown, that is actually not true. Christianity is the most populous of all religions at about 2 billion people worldwide. Islam is second with about 1.6 billion. But 5 billion people are non-christians.

Well according to Bible (If you don’t believe the Bible then there is no way we can prove each other wrong) Adam and Eve (first people on earth) believed in God. Then they had children and populated the world and people quickly started turning away from God and worshiping idols. The world DID start out with everyone believing in God. Now of coarse if you don’t believe in the Bible, then this whole conversation is pointless.

me. aha

Inna, Adam & Eve is an allegory. They did not really exist. Almost every christian in the world accepts that the story of genesis is not literally true. Only a small minority of christians think Adam and Even actually existed. Science has proven beyond any doubt that humans evolved and were not created out of the earth. Even the largest christian church (Catholic) knows thist.

Ha ha ha!

Whoa are you serious?! I mean The Catholic church accepts evolution…? Or am I not understanding what your saying! Why did I ask such a controversial question…

I’m sorry jihmahl i don’t care what you are scientists or other “Christians” say… but i DO believe in Adam and Eve. and you telling me it’s just an “allegory” is pretty useless because i know what i have believed in and theres nothing you can do to change that. I mean SERIOUSLY Christians believing in evolution? what is this world coming to!! Jesus was right about people being completely lost in the end times… and as far as i know…scientists dont know what they are talking about. all of their theorys are made up of a bit of “evidence” and whole lot of guesses. If you read a book about evolution, you’ll notice a bunch of words like “probably” and “most likely”. WHY? because scientists make a bunch of “educated guesses”!

Ha ha! Well I am wondering if the bible was written by a bunch of guys who were like “Let’s see how long they think this book is real!” I have to say I would laugh like hell if that is real. Wait how did Adam & Eve get to Earth? Did they play COD? Ha ha ha… Wow I am just crazy!!! I think I am going to hell :D

Yes Slashdown, the catholic church accepts evolution as a real and verifiable phenomena. My daughter even went to a catholic HS and had a nun teaching biology and evolutionary science.

Inna, it is obvious you have never read a book about evolution if that is what you think they say. Scientific theories are not guesses. They are based on years of study and experimentation. Gravity is “only” a theory too. Do you deny that gravity exists? I don’t expect to change your mind, it seems your brain washing is complete. What you believe has no bearing on reality. You can believe the moon is made of cheese too. It doesn’t make it true. What makes something true is evidence. There is no evidence that Adam and Eve ever existed. There is overwhelming evidence that all life on this planet evolved from single celled organisms that first appeared 3.8 billion years ago.

Actually, i HAVE read a book about evolution and know it’s based on years on study but I’m not going to believe in a bunch of guesses. You can. I don’t care if they have some evidence, they know themselves that 60 percent of their theory is based on guesses, thats why most people I ask don’t even believe in evolution. And I have more than enough evidence that God is real because it’s not just like my parents told me about Him and i believed it. I KNOW God is real because I FEEL Him. He answers my prayers. Everything that is said in the Bible is true. He said once you repent (turn from your sins and accept Jesus Christ as you Savior) you receive the Holy Spirit and you become a new creation. And you know what? It’s true! The day I repented, I became a different person! Not joking. Since that day, I became much more tender-hearted. I used to be a mean, bratty person. Not anymore! I used to want to be popular and be noticed. Not anymore! Looking good used to mean the world to me. Not anymore! I can feel that God changed me. Before I repented, when ever I told a lie, I barely felt bad. Now when I lie the Holy Spirit bugs me and I feel awful. I FEEL God. That’s why I know His real. And calling someone “brain washed” for believing in God is pretty messed up. Your dealing with serious stuff here. Some people take their religion really seriously. So can you try to be nicer? This is turning into a argument. That’s not what I wanted. I was just stating my opinion. If you don’t believe in God, I can live with it. All I can say is you’ll regret it on Judgment Day.

Inna Jimahl called you brain-washed well… because you kind of are. You are not opening AT ALL to any theories that make sense. I mix my religion with Science… So I am open to the fact god exists and the fact that science makes a lot of sense. Your just blocking everything off. God may have created this world but what if he let Mother Earth create evolution and everything and other parts of the universe.

i’m not blocking everything off about science! I just dont believe in evolution. stop exaggerating everything. All the Christians i know dont believe in evolution…i don’t get why you guys are so surprised i don’t! there’s CREATION and EVOLUTION… the two don’t mix!

and slashdown…who would actually write a book as long as the Bible just to see who how long people would believe in it? You’d have to be pretty crazy.

He he he… Yeah well maybe they were…

Inna, look up the definition of a scientific theory. Read about the scientific method. They are not guesses. I really don’t care what you believe, but if you make a statement like “This world would be better off everyone sticked to the original religion (Christian) and not make-up a million new ones”, that tells me you are not very well-informed. So it doesn’t surprise me when I hear you deny evolution. You say you don’t block off science. Maybe not everything, just those things that challenge your preconceived notions about our origins. Sorry but I will take the word of people who have studied science their entire lives over the words in an ancient text written by superstitious men. What you “feel” about your god is not evidence that can be seen and tested, which is required of a scientific theory.

okay you really don’t know what your talking about. scientists think the world started with a “big bang”. what evidence do they have for that?

Again, you are misinformed. The big bang (which is a misnomer) is the theory of how the universe started. We know for a fact, that every object in the universe that we have observed is moving away from a central point. This has been observed. The theory is that all matter in the universe started out as a small extremely dense object called a singularity. Something caused this object to begin expanding rapidly. The cause is unknown, but it is pretty much universally accepted that this is was the origins of the universe we now live in. Some hypothesize that time and space are infinite and all matter that is currently expanding will eventually begin to contract back to a singularity again, and the cycle will start all over. It suggests we are in a constant cycle of expansion and contraction. Now explain to me the scientific evidence for genesis?

Ok guys we are getting nowhere with this fight! Inna if you believe in God that is your belief! As for you Jimahl… Great dissing! But if Inna’s right we’re going to hell XD

“The cause is unknown, but it is pretty much universally accepted that this is was the origins of the universe we now live in.” THATS WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT. Right there is a guess! Yes, it is a educated guess because the scientist do have a little bit of evidence to back it up…but the theory is basically 70% guess. Scientists made a lot of guesses, based on a little amount of evidence. Now why would I believe them? They could guess wrong at just one guess…which would make the rest of their guesses wrong. And for evidence that genesis is true… there is no definite evidence. That’s why it’s called FAITH. That’s why God rewards the people that believe in Him. That’s why it says in the Bible “Bless are you who believe without seeing”. The world WANTS to believe in anything but God. Think about it. If someone does their mom a favor by cleaning the whole house while she sleeps, do you think’ll she be really happy when she wakes up and discovers it? Of coarse! But what if someone cleaned the whole house because their mom told them to? Obviously, the mom won’t be as happy since she told him to do it. It’s the same thing as believing in God. There is no solid proof. If there was…it wouldn’t be called believing in God anymore.

Inna, did you read what I wrote. The CAUSE is unknown as to WHY the singularity began expanding. It is KNOWN that it all started at that point. The cause is not part of the theory, just the expansion is. No matter how many times you say it, it is not a guess, and it is not a “little bit of evidence”. It is overwhelming evidence. Something does not become a theory when it is a 70% guess. So where are you getting that statistic? Never mind, I already know… you are just making it up. Again, look up the definition of scientific theory and the scientific method. You are not very well versed in either, and it is useless to argue with someone who refuses to educate themselves. You are absolutely right, it is about faith, and I am glad you find comfort in your faith. But that does not mean you should ignore proven science, just because it goes against certain aspects of that faith. You can still have faith, as billions of people do, and still accept evolution as a true and real phenomena. It is OK to think of Adam and Eve as an allegory and still have faith. As I said, the largest christian church in the world does. The original church that every other christian church started out as. Do you deny that the earth revolves around the sun? Because Galileo was jailed for “theorizing” that the earth revolved around the sun and not the sun revolving around the earth as people believed at the time. It was religious zealots who persecuted him who thought he was going against their faith by stating something that we now know to be absolutely true. That is no different than what evolution deniers do today, except that don’t have the power to jail people who disagree with them.

Slashdown, if Inna is right, I have faith that a loving god is not going to torture me for eternity simply because I am unable to believe such a fantastic story that has no evidence to back it up. If he does, than I would not want to be near such an evil egotistical bastard who would do such a thing to me and many people I love… But I am pretty sure it is all nonsense, so I am not worried…

Ha ha! I still think it would be funny tho if Satan B*tch slaps you for eternity XD

You barely gave any evidence for the big bang theory. Even if the world IS expanding, that does not prove that it started with a big bang. Scientists themselves admit that what they say could be not true. That’s why it’s called a theory. They COULD be wrong, they even say so themselves. They make a lot of theories, and like I said, if they messed up on one, that messes up the rest of them. And if I were you, I would be worried. People that believe in God know He is true because they feel His presence, love, joy, and hope. He answers their prayers. Words cannot completely explain how, but those who truly believed in God KNOW His real. Why do you think many people that believed in God GAVE UP THEIR LIVES for His sake? Because they were 100 % sure they would go to heaven because they KNEW God was real because they FELT Him! That’s why Christians try to tell everyone about God! Because they want everyone else to feel the joy of living with God who gives love, peace, and hope. Life with God is just amazing. I’m not trying to argue or be mean or bratty. I know you guys probably think i’m crazy, but i’m not. I know in whom I believed, and I’m just sharing it with you. If you think I’m crazy, not much I can do about it.

Inna, I was not trying to give actual evidence, because this is not the forum to produce the volumes of evidence that exist for the big bang. And it is not the world that is expanding, it is the universe. This has been observed, and has been tested and confirmed. But I have no desire to sit and argue about accepted science with someone who will deny it no matter how much evidence exists. And you dogmatic rant is meaningless to me. I once was a believer, so I have heard it many time before. The only “science” you know is an ancient text written by superstitious men.

And how do you know it was written by “Superstitious men”? What evidence do you have for that? Since you only believe in things that have evidence to back it up…

Most men back then, especially those in power, were superstitious men. The text itself tells me it is superstitious. It contains supernatural things that science has dis-proven. We know for a fact that the earth was no created in 6 days. We know for a fact that there was never a worldwide flood.

Well, if i am allowed to say, the Bible clearly stated that the Universe has a beggining at Genesis 1:1…and thousands of years before any scientist, isn’t it remarkable?

it’s not proven that the world wasn’t created in 6 days. scientists can not prove how the world was created. so it’s not a fact.

Inna, you continue to show your ignorance of science. We know with virtual certitude how and when the earth was formed. And it was not 6000 years ago. It 4.54 billion years ago. And the first single celled organisms first appeared 3.5 billion years ago, and almost 2 million years ago the first homo sapiens appear. So 4.5 billion years ago to 2 million years ago is a little longer than 6 days. the evidence for this is overwhelming, and your denial of it only shows your lack of knowledge.

Alejandro, there is nothing remarkable about saying the universe has a beginning. Especially when so much of the the genesis story have been dis-proven.

The Bible can definitely give us right answers.I commend you for believing in it.I would recommend you, if you agree,just to make sure of what it says.When the Bible talks about 6 days it does not necessarily mean of 24 hours since the 24 hours cycle of day and night didn’t come before the 4th creative day.So it has to mean 6 periods of time(compare Genesis 1:14-19 with Psalms 90:4 and 2nd Peter 3:8)When we allow the Bible to explain itself,it becomes much more understandable, don’t you agree?

I meant this for Inna…Now about Jimahl’s remark: Are you talking about a specific portion of the Genesis that has been disproven?

Many parts of genesis have been dis-proven. Creation of the world in 6 days, that the earth is only 6000 years old, the fact that humans evolved and were not created, the worldwide flood that wiped out all life, and the re-population of the planet from the animals and people on the ark. All of this is impossible with what we know from scientific discovery.

Okay im Athiest, But without religion people would have no morals or values. People would go around killing people, but without religion? Murder would probably not be considered wrong. Idk, I believe religion is a tricky topic. Religion to me is a “Scare Tactic” I think it’s all faulse but it keeps society in order for the most part. Theres no telling how the world would be without religion.

Scientific discovery are theories. Like you said, even gravity is a theory. So, it’s still not a fact. The problem is, people nowadays want to believe in everything but God. So they make up different things to take the place of God. But in the end, everybody will find out the truth. I don’t care if you think i’m crazy, I know in what I have believed and I am POSITIVE that God is real, which I’ve already explained why twice, and you ignored it twice and went on with you scientific stuff. Yes, you are probably thinking i’m crazy but you will one day discover that I am right. I will just wait patiently for Jesus Christ to come. Go think whatever about me. It’s just sad how people reject salvation. Jesus already suffered and died on the cross for our sins. He did everything he had to for our salvation. Now all we have to do, is accept Him as our Savior and believe in Him to be saved from Judgment. But sadly, people just don’t want to believe. :(

“Scientific discovery are theories. Like you said, even gravity is a theory. So, it’s still not a fact.”

(sigh) Inna, scientific discoveries ARE NOT theories. A discovery might be evidence used in a theory, but the discovery itself is a fact. When you let go of something from your hand, it drops. That is gravity and it is a fact. Now the reason WHY it drops is the theory. Galileo discovered that the earth revolves around the sun, and not the sun around the earth. That is a fact, not a theory. Scientist have found and analyzed fossils that PROVE all life on this planet evolved from single cell organisms that first appeared 3.5 billion years ago. That is a fact, not a theory. How evolution works is the theory.

“The problem is, people nowadays want to believe in everything but God.”

As I have said many times already, most who do not believe in god do not choose to do so. They simply can’t. I can no more choose to believe in god than I could the tooth fairy. Why do you keep insisting the we don’t WANT to believe? Are you not able to understand this simple concept? And science doesn’t “want” anything either. Science looks at a phenomena like gravity, and tries to explain why it exists through data collection, experimentation, analysis, and finally peer review. Sometimes times they are able to prove something and it becomes a theory, sometimes they don’t prove it, it doesn’t become a theory.

I don’t think you are crazy for believing in god. Most people do. I think you are crazy for believing that the story of genesis is literal and that there actually was an Adam and Eve. Most people do not believe that. And I haven’t ignored your beliefs, they are just irrelevant to any discussion on science. And you constantly spouting dogma is not going to sway me or anyone else. I probably know a lot more about christianity than you, so you don’t have to tell me that jesus is our savior and all that nonsense. I have heard it all before. It is meaningless to me. You need to accept that not everyone believes your mythology, and stop talking to people as if every one does.

Sorry, not to be rude (really i’m not trying to be) but I don’t really want to read all the stuff you said about theories. It’s super long and it’s just, I’ve read about scientific theories enough times, trust me. So I kinda skipped down a few lines. Now let me say evolution isn’t a fact. This year, in science class, we were studying evolution. And the book we used CLEARLY stated that evolution and all the ideas on how earth was created IS a theory. It’s not a fact. In fact, if you reserach it, about 40% people still believe in creation. And me believing in Adam and Eve should not sound crazy to you. I know loads of Christians that believe in Adam and Eve. I don’t even one Christian that believes that the story of Adam and Eve isn’t real. Which makes sense…because to me, it sounds silly to believe what the Bible says about everything, except Adam and Eve. That doesn’t make sense. And I know you don’t believe in God because there is no evidence. You know what I said before? About it being impossible to prove God exists because then there would be no point of faith? That’s true, but there is some evidence out there of God’s existence. Before I give you some examples, I want you to know that I’m not just trying to prove you wrong to make me look good. It’s because I really do want you to believe in God. Because I, as a Christian, know how rewarding and amazing it is to believe in God. So I just want you to give God a chance, okay?

1.Why is the world so perfect? The Earth’s size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth’s surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter. Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life. The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth’s position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day. And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents. All of this shows evidence that earth has a designer (God) and was not accidentally created.

2. Miracles. There are pretty a lot of events in history when miracles happened, in other words, the impossible happened. Sometimes, a person would can sick. The doctor says he is going to die and there is nothing that can cure him. But the patient belonged to a Christian family and they called together their relatives and prayed for the sick person. And what do you know?! The person lives! The doctors are shocked and have no explanation. More evidence of God’s existence. Try going to godtube.com and type in “Man Raised From Dead & Hell” and watch the video.

3. Bible evidence. For one, Noah’s ark has been found. (You can research it on google.) Also, Bible prophesies are coming true! Just like Jesus said, SCIENTISTS (that should get your attention) are saying there are more and more earthquakes and volcano eruptions are happening. The Bible also says, near the end days, there will be a blast of knowledge and a lack of love in families. Also coming true.

That is just some evidence of God’s existence. Am I saying it’s proof? No. I’m just trying to say that we Christians DO have some evidence about our belief after all. And that’s just some of it.

Inna, you don’t want to read my post, but you expect me to read yours, which is even longer. Why are you are purposely ignoring the science?

“And the book we used CLEARLY stated that evolution and all the ideas on how earth was created IS a theory.” You are correct, the evolutionary concepts on HOW we came to be are a theory. But what is not a theory is the FACT that evolution has and does occur. The mechanism (natural selection, mutations, survival of the fittest, etc..) of HOW it happens is a theory, but the fossil records prove beyond any doubt that evolution has happened. And again, a scientific theory is far from a guess as you constantly imply. It is a virtual fact, and is universally accepted as such. Do theories change as new info becomes available? Absolutely, but it virtually never happens that they are shown to be completely wrong.

“In fact, if you reserach it, about 40% people still believe in creation.” Please provide the source for this claim. There are many types of creationists. You are among the most radical, A Young Earth creationist. You think the bible is literal and that the earth was created by supernatural means only 6000 years ago. That is crazy because it goes against everything we know about our origins. And I bet if you look at the demographics behind that 40%, the overwhelming majority of them will have limited education of high school or less. The higher the education, the less likely they believe in creationism. What does that tell you?

“That’s true, but there is some evidence out there of God’s existence.” You need to learn the definition of evidence.

“Why is the world so perfect?” It isn’t, ever see a picture of a platypus? Of course the conditions are right for the earth to support life, or we wouldn’t be here. This is about the silliest concept put forward as evidence of a creator. There are trillions upon trillions of stars in the universe. Of those it is likely there are trillions that have planets. And of those there are likely billions that have the right environment to support life. And of those there are probably Hundreds of million that have developed advanced life forms. And of those there are probably millions with intelligent life on them. We happen to be one of them. This is not evidence of a creator. It is pure probability.

“Miracles”. Show me the evidence that any miracle ever happened, that there was some supernatural force that cured a sick person. Citing such an event is not evidence of anything accept maybe a rare occurrence where a seemingly fatal disease is cured. There are far more times that the person being prayed for dies. THIS IS NOT EVIDENCE.

“Bible evidence. For one, Noah’s ark has been found.” No it has not. I know all about it, and that claim has been debunked long ago. And please cite these scientists saying there are more natural disasters, and that the cause is supernatural.

It amazes me how you expect me to give credence to these ridiculous claims about creation that have absolutely no evidence to support it, yet you will deny real scientific evidence as only a theory. As if a scientific theory is just a guess pulled out of thin air. You go so far as to tell me you aren’t going to bother to read all the scientific “stuff”. That tells me where you are in your quest for truth. You are stuck with your preconceived notions of our origins, and when anyone attempts to show you evidence to the contrary, you almost act alike a child with his fingers in his ears going “nana na nana, I can’t hear you”. I really don’t care what you believe, just keep your mythology out of my kids science class. Evolution is real science with facts to support it. Creationism has absolutely no evidence to support it and should not be anywhere near a public school.

I didn’t read the scientific stuff because it wasn’t about evidence for evolution. You were explaining what a theory is, and I already know what it is, that’s why I didn’t read it. When it got to the evidence part, I read it. So quit accusing me falsely. “It isn’t, ever see a picture of a platypus?” That’s not what I meant. I was trying to say that the earth is a perfect size and in perfect position and stuff. “Of those it is likely there are trillions that have planets.” Key word: LIKELY. Likely, probably, possibly, scientist’s favorite words. If it’s not for sure, it’s not a fact. So I’m going to just erase what you said about that, because it is only a educated guess. Now, from the planets we see…Jupiter, Mars, ect, there is no life. No buildings and trees. Why is earth the only planet with life? Your answer is probably “because we evolved and adapted to this living environment. that’s why we’re here.” well, why didn’t anything evolve on the other planets? This is all evidence, that someone is in control. EVIDENCE. Not proof. Hear that? It’s just a little something to back up creation. I’m not trying to say that this proves creation exits, or proves that evolution is false. However, it IS a little evidence. “Show me the evidence that any miracle ever happened” Did you watch the video I told you to? That’s one example. There are much more though. Like I said, the miracles are not proof, just evidence. “And please cite these scientists saying there are more natural disasters, and that the cause is supernatural” I would love to give the link, but whenever I post a link it says “link removed”. So just go to google and type in “livescience.com natrual disaters more common” and it should be the fist website link. and for the proof that the cause is supernatural… who said the cause has to be supernatural? The Bible said natural disasters will increase…it never said why. The cause could be because of us humans, but either way, just as the Bible said, natural disasters are increasing. More evidence, not proof.

“You were explaining what a theory is, and I already know what it is,” No you don’t. Because if you knew what a theory was, you would never say it is “only” a theory, as if it were just a guess. There is a theory for evolution. There is none for creation. If you understood what a theory is, the fact there is no theory for creation should certainly should tell you that evolution has real evidence and creation does not. And you still keep ignoring that it is a FACT that evolution has occurred. I will say it again. The theory only states HOW it happens not IF it happens. THERE IS NO DOUBT IT HAPPENS! IT HAS BEEN PROVEN. “Key word: LIKELY.” Yes it is likely. Do you know anything about statistics and probability? It is statistically impossible for there to not to be millions (probably billions) of planets that have the right conditions for life to evolve. So you are going to base your “earth is perfect scenario” solely on the planets in our solar system. As if the trillions of other planets out there don’t count. “well, why didn’t anything evolve on the other planets? This is all evidence, that someone is in control.” How utterly ridiculous. When you can tell me none of the other trillions of planets out there have life on them, then I will consider it evidence. The odds of 2 planets in the same solar system having intelligent life is probably far greater than the odds of there being no other planets in the whole universe with intelligent life. “So just go to google and type in “livescience.com natrual disaters more common”. Did you even read the article? Yes there has been an increase in natural disasters over the past 40 to 50 years. But only for environmental natural disasters, like hurricanes, tsunamis, droughts, and floods. Geological disasters like volcanic eruptions and earthquakes have remained steady, with no increase. If there was some supernatural cause for these disasters, as you imply, it would be an increase in all kinds of disasters. The increase in weather related disasters has a real scientific explanation: global warming. And if you are going to use that website as a reference, you certainly can’t ignore all the other things on the site, like evolution. This is from their article on evolution: “Evolution is among the most substantiated concepts in science and is the unifying theory of biological science.” And this is what livescience.com has to say about creationism: “Creationism is religion. Intelligent design is just plain sneaky: It is rooted in religion but couched in pseudoscience with enough scientific-sounding mumbo-jumbo to confuse a kid into thinking there just might be something to it.” Inna, you seem like a nice person, but you really need to give this up. You are in way over your head, and haven’t the slightest clue what real science and the scientific method is all about. If you want to really learn, you need to start by giving up your preconceived notions and start from scratch. But you only seem to start from what the bible says, and then go about cherry picking the data that fits what the bible says, while ignoring everything else.

jimahl,i think we should take it one by one:”Creation of the world in 6 days, that the earth is only 6000 years old”.If you get a closer look you’ll see that it is not talking about days of 24 hours since that cycle came to be only after the forth “day”,it rather means 6 periods of creation.We could take it from here,shall we?

Yeah it makes sense :D

Alejandro, I can accept that the concept of creation is 6 days is allegorical, and that creation of the earth actually took billions of years. But if you are willing to accept that 6 days is allegorical, then you should be able to accept that adam and eve are also allegorical and evolution was the way man actually came to be. And if you don’t think that adam and eve were allegorical, we know for a fact that the man existed a lot longer ago than 6000 to 10000 years ago.

The question,of course would be how to identify it.In the same context Jesus said:”By their fruits you shall know them”,namely by their deeds.What deeds do you expect from the religion that leads to life?

“ “You were explaining what a theory is, and I already know what it is,” No you don’t.” Actually, I DO. I KNOW it’s based on years of study. I KNOW it has evidence to back it up. But it’s still not a fact. Scientist cannot prove evolution occurred. They can only back it up with evidence. I actually know many people that don’t believe in evolution, Christian or not. If you think about it, evolution states that every single living thing, including us, came from a tiny microscopic life form. That doesn’t sound any more believable to people than a supernatural source creating earth. “THERE IS NO DOUBT IT HAPPENS! IT HAS BEEN PROVEN.” Show me this proof. “ “Key word: LIKELY.” Yes it is likely. Do you know anything about statistics and probability? It is statistically impossible for there to not to be millions (probably billions) of planets that have the right conditions for life to evolve. So you are going to base your “earth is perfect scenario” solely on the planets in our solar system. As if the trillions of other planets out there don’t count.” To tell you the truth, that paragraph kinda confuses me. I’m exactly sure what your trying to say. What I know it that scientist THINK that there are trillions and billions of other planets out there. For a person that believes in evolution, it’s reasonable to think that. For a person that believes in creation, it’s not. W

“ “You were explaining what a theory is, and I already know what it is,” No you don’t.” Actually, I DO. I KNOW it’s based on years of study. I KNOW it has evidence to back it up. But it’s still not a fact. Scientist cannot prove evolution occurred. They can only back it up with evidence. I actually know many people that don’t believe in evolution, Christian or not. If you think about it, evolution states that every single living thing, including us, came from a tiny microscopic life form. That doesn’t sound any more believable to people than a supernatural source creating earth. “THERE IS NO DOUBT IT HAPPENS! IT HAS BEEN PROVEN.” Show me this proof. “ “Key word: LIKELY.” Yes it is likely. Do you know anything about statistics and probability? It is statistically impossible for there to not to be millions (probably billions) of planets that have the right conditions for life to evolve. So you are going to base your “earth is perfect scenario” solely on the planets in our solar system. As if the trillions of other planets out there don’t count.” To tell you the truth, that paragraph kinda confuses me. I’m exactly sure what your trying to say. What I know it that scientist THINK that there are trillions and billions of other planets out there. For a person that believes in evolution, it’s reasonable to think that. For a person that believes in creation, it’s not. If there were billions of other life forms out there, God would probably talk about them in the Bible, too. But He only talks about us humans, and angels and stuff. And He never mentions us being with other life forms in heaven. So I don’t believe that there are billions and trillions of planets with life on them. And scientists can’t prove it either. So you can’t really use it as evidence against creation. And I guess I can’t really use it as evidence against evolution so just forget the whole planet thing. “Did you even read the article? Yes there has been an increase in natural disasters over the past 40 to 50 years. But only for environmental natural disasters, like hurricanes, tsunamis, droughts, and floods. Geological disasters like volcanic eruptions and earthquakes have remained steady, with no increase.” The Bible doesn’t exactly say only earthquakes and volcanic eruptions will increase, I just said that because I was just naming environmental disasters. So it could be floods, hurricanes, ect. “If there was some supernatural cause for these disasters, as you imply, it would be an increase in all kinds of disasters. The increase in weather related disasters has a real scientific explanation: global warming.” I already said, the cause does not have to be super natural. Here’s what I said in my earlier post: “who said the cause has to be supernatural? The Bible said natural disasters will increase…it never said why. The cause could be because of us humans, but either way, just as the Bible said, natural disasters are increasing.” See? Either way, the Bible told the future. The Bible didn’t say God would make more disasters happen with no cause, it just said they would happen. God could have just seen global warming coming in the future, or maybe He knew that in the future He would MAKE global warming. “And if you are going to use that website as a reference, you certainly can’t ignore all the other things on the site, like evolution.” Said who? You asked me to show you the proof that natural disasters are increasing, so I just quickly looked it up on Google and gave you the first website I found. All scientists believe in evolution, so it would be impossible to find a science website that doesn’t support evolution.

“Scientist cannot prove evolution occurred.” They already have. I have no desire to cite all of the data out there, as it is extremely voluminous. But I will give you the 5 minute version, and you can look it up yourself if you need more. There are layers to the earth’s crust called strata. These strata exist at various levels, and through various radiometric dating techniques, we know when each of these layers were at the surface. We have observed that at the deepest strata, older than 3.8 billion years, there are no signs of any life. At the strata from 3.8 billion years ago, we find fossils of the first simple single celled organisms. At 2 billion years we find the first complex singled celled organisms. At 1 billion years ago we find the first multi-cellular life. At 600 million years we find the first simple animals. At 570 million years the first arthropods, at 550 million years the first complex animals, at 500 million years the first fish, at 475 million years the first plants, at 400 million years the first insects and seeds, at 360 million years the first amphibians, at 300 million years the first reptiles, at 200 million years the first mammals, at 150 million years the first birds, at 130 million years the first flowers, it is 65 million years since non-avian dinosaurs died out, at 2.5 million years the was the first appearance of the genus Homo, and at 200,000 years humans started looking like they do today. This has all been observed and verified. As we move up through the layers of the earth’s crust we see a steady increase in the complexity and volume of life on earth. There is no crossing these barriers. There are no complex life forms at the deepest levels, and the highest levels have the most complex life forms. Since we have never observed life just popping into existence, they had to come from some where. Barring any supernatural force that was just constantly “willing” billions of new species into existence, the ONLY way the new life appeared was because it evolved from the earlier life forms. How the first simple life appeared, we are not sure, but it did appear, and all life after that evolved from it. For that, THERE IS NO DOUBT!!!

“What I know it that scientist THINK that there are trillions and billions of other planets out there.” SIGH We know how solar systems form. We have observed this. We have already observed hundreds of solar systems with planets. And from all of the stars that we are close enough to detect if they have planets, the overwhelming majority of them do. So it is safe to say that it is very very common for a star to have planets. We KNOW this.

“And scientists can’t prove it either. So you can’t really use it as evidence against creation.”

I’m not. You are the one who brought it up as evidence FOR Creation, because you claimed that the earth was unique and had the perfect conditions to support life. And I clearly showed that that is not true, and that it is statistically impossible for there not to be many many more planets out there with similar conditions.

“And He never mentions us being with other life forms in heaven.” And therein lies the faulty logic you are engaging in. You will not look at anything on its own merits. It only seen through preconceived notions based on an ancient text. If you are going to look at something scientifically, you can not start with the “it isn’t in the bible so it can’t be true” argument. If you do that, you have already lost the argument. That completely goes against the scientific method. You start out with your conclusion, and then go about cherry picking evidence to support it, while completely ignoring any contrary evidence.

“Bible told the future.” Most religions have these end of times fairy tales. And just because there has been an increase in weather related incidents is not evidence the bible predicted the future.

“All scientists believe in evolution, so it would be impossible to find a science website that doesn’t support evolution.”

There you go again. You will accept what science has to say when it supports your argument, yet completely ignore it when it doesn’t. That is called cherry picking. And scientists don’t “believe” in evolution. They KNOW evolution is a real and true phenomena. You are the one that doesn’t BELIEVE scientists, yet you have absolutely nothing to support that belief.

OMG OMG OMG OMG THIS IS LIKE THE MONKEY TRIAL! ALL OVER AGIAN.

I am sorry it took me so long to reply. Things have been going on. Anyway, I can see this conversation isn’t going anywhere. As I have mentioned, no one can prove the existence of God to anyone. That is why it is called faith. However, those who have accepted Jesus as their Savior and invited Him into their life, have experienced God. The existence of God has been personally proven to me. I can feel His presence. When I am thinking about Him, talking about Him with other Christians, praying, reading the Bible, ect I can feel my heart burning. And when I am not doing these things, I hunger for Him and feel like I need to. And when I pray, I can FEEL the Holy Spirit within me. And when I ASK, I RECEIVE. And when I sin, I feel guilt. And if I go to sleep without asking for forgiveness for that sin, I cannot be at peace, until I do. These kind of things prove to me PERSONALLY that God IS real. Sure, I don’t have much scientific proof, but my personal proof is enough to have me convinced. You know, many people are just like you, before they accept Jesus into their lives. I hope and pray that one day, you too will be able to experience the presence of God. However there is nothing I can do to make you believe. I am done with this conversation, and if I seemed to be rude at any times, I’m sorry. That was not my goal.

Inna, you can believe what ever you want, but if you go about denying proven science because it disagrees with your belief in the supernatural, you are only fooling yourself. Like I said, believe what ever you want, just don’t expect people to take you seriously if you try and deny something like evolution. And definitely keep creationism out of my kids science class.

Hahahaha Jimahl let it go man :) You can’t reason with people with a strong faith…

The World would be better without religion. But not without Faith. Religion is of men and it leads to death and destruction.