Why do you believe what you believe.

…proof… of what? You say that as if you were there to witness it. Well, you weren’t. The only connection you have is the Bible. A book cannot prove ITSELF to be true. You need external sources to validate it, of which there aren’t any.

Uh..Yeah it can. Check the archeaological evidence. Plus the Manuscript evidence. (these are things you have to look into). And I could take up this whole webpage with outside biblical sources. I’ll give a few

The most documented Biblical event is the world-wide flood described in Genesis 6-9. A number of Babylonian documents have been discovered which describe the same flood.

1. The Sumerian King List for example, lists kings who reigned for long periods of time. Then a great flood came. Following the flood, Sumerian kings ruled for much shorter periods of time. This is the same pattern found in the Bible. Men had long life spans before the flood and shorter life spans after the flood. The 11th tablet of the Gilgamesh Epic speaks of an ark, animals taken on the ark, birds sent out during the course of the flood, the ark landing on a mountain, and a sacrifice offered after the ark landed.

2.The Story of Adapa tells of a test for immortality involving food, similar to the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

Here are some Outside Biblical sources involving Christianity:

Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Suetonius, The Babylonian Talmud, Josephus, and the letter of Mara Bar-Serapion.

it is impossible for you to prove the Bible holds and accurate depiction of God, Jesus, and all the metaphysical fantastic imagery within its pages. For that matter, you cannot prove that Jesus IS God, or the son of God; since scriptures depict BOTH.

That is…simply..because..He…IS..both :/ But given the fact that you haven’t understood the Trinity yet, There would be no reason to explain it all over again..Unless you want me to, of course ;)

of all the scriptures you mentioned, do you simply ignore all the OTHER scriptures, where Jesus refers to God as father, and speaks directly to him. Was he… talking to himself?

I try not to ignore ANY scripture period. As you have to read it all in context. And No he was talking to God the Father (which would take explanation of the Trinity all over again, and I’m not doing it if you aren’t willing to listen.)

Nope

uh…Yeah

Okay, do you know what the definition of a cult is?

Cargo Sect? You mean the Cargo Cult right?

According to how you interpret the Bible anyways. Can you do that?

Agreed! Correction : Impossible

mmmhmm… But we do. Just gave what you asked for

…you’re still avoiding it…

Whats your position on anything? Or do you have one

You’d know that if you would just pay attention…

Because You havent given account for anything except for repute of Christianity.

You mean none that YOU are willing to acknowledge. And the topic isn’t Christianity. The topic is the trinity, which, just like the rapture, isn’t IN the Bible.

Nor have you given evidence against such.

You’ve done plenty of that FOR me.

You are merely in a state of insulting me for telling you Truth in Christ Jesus.

WRONG. Its for your inability to represent Jesus in a manner that befits him and his message. And its for your willingness to continue blabbering, while UNwilling to pay attention.

Generalization

You don’t seem to know what a ‘generalization’ is.

Insulting is trying to feel the void for ignorance.

THAT is a generalization…

But I know, It just so much easier to just call me names than to present evidence (Which you dont have) against Christianity.

There’s PLENTY of evidence against Christianity. Of course, none that you would ever acknowledge. But it doesn’t matter because I’m not against Christianity to begin with. Of course, you wouldn’t know that… because you AREN’T PAYING ATTENTION.

I’m just wondering. What if when you die you found out everything was true?

I agree man did not make the Earth. God made the earth. =)

I am not judging you in any way just trying to figure out what go’s through your mind.

I call people names when they deserve it. If they lack the courtesy to actually READ what I’m saying and respond to WHAT I’M SAYING (instead of sidestepping the issues), I have no problem insulting them DIRECTLY, when they’ve already insulted me INDIRECTLY.

Assuming much?

In the old testament it said that there would be a Messiah that had perfect sinless blood.

Jesus is a person not a Manifestation.

Alright, what if God gave Jesus the authority over the people and Jesus was simply doing what God has gave for him to do, Jesus like I said before is a very important or in other words unique person in the bible yes he did have a lot of responsibility and I believe that if it was in Gods plans to give this task to him he would know that Jesus would succeed in it.

By the way, where does the scripture say God is three manifestations of Himself?

1 Corinthians 15: 28

28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

“Did you get that? He is the Creator! He has always been! And He will always be. It doesn’t get anymore clear than that. By Him all things were made in Heaven and in Earth. Only God can do these things.”

Could you please show me where in the bible it says that?

You are still dodging the question.

WRONG. The question has been answered numerous times… My position is well known on this site also, well, by those who actually pay attention. You could easily find that answer, but you lack the motivation to seek the truth (its all over this site), you also lack the deductive reasoning to KNOW it.

You are playing it safe and wasting all out time.

YOU’RE the only person here… and you chose to waste it by returning over and over, digging yourself deeper and deeper. Talking yourself into a corner, then using the cliche bailout excuse, claiming that I just don’t understand. Well, I DO understand, I simply don’t agree, because to me the concept isn’t believable. Just like I understand Islam, Wicca, Pantheism, Atheism, etc. but I don’t agree with them.

But you, like a small number of other theists, are too defensive to even grasp the purpose of my queries, and want to ignore them; but for some reason… can’t. Even though, according to you, you don’t visit this site often, because Jesus has supposedly called you ELSEWHERE to do other more important things. Well… it would seem you aren’t that busy or important after all.

then I appeal to all Christians on this site to not reply to any of his posts and treat him as he did not exist.

That won’t happen, I have too many Christian friends on this site. Christians that are more secure in their faith, and their perception of God. But how nice of you to show further weakness, by trying to envoke that ‘’us vs. them’’ mentality.

I say this captainassassin not to insult you but because many of us have only very little time in a day on the internet and we would like spend that time on some serious discussion with people who are really interested.

…you mean… people who AGREE with you… which is pointless. How pathetic. Oh, and I call you pathetic not to insult you, but to summarize, and save webspace.

I believe in Absolute Truth. And That Jesus Christ is the Way, The Truth, and The Life, and No one will go to the Father but by Him

I believe in a Triune God. God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ) and God the Holy Spirit (God that lives in us when we accept Christ), I believe that God Created the universe. The Hebrew word for God is Elohim, which is plural. I believe that Jesus Christ agreed to humble Himself, and wrapped Himself in flesh to be tempted with everything we are tempted by and that He lived a sinless life and was crucified on a cross and died and took the weight of our sins with Him on the cross. And then rose again three days later and appeared to all of the disciples and 500+ and ascended into heaven and now sits at the Right hand of God the Father.

This is what I believe. please forgive me for my inability to answer the question.

Now please present the evidence you have against it and we will go from there

Nice point! =)

That is a great verse, and I use to go off of that too a lot…Look at what this has to say about that,

John 1:1

1. It is imperative that the serious student of the Bible come to a basic understanding of logos, which is translated as “Word” in John 1:1. Most Trinitarians believe that the word logos refers directly to Jesus Christ, so in most versions of John logos is capitalized and translated “Word” (some versions even write “Jesus Christ” in John 1:1). However, a study of the Greek word logos shows that it occurs more than 300 times in the New Testament, and in both the NIV and the KJV it is capitalized only 7 times (and even those versions disagree on exactly when to capitalize it). When a word that occurs more than 300 times is capitalized fewer than 10 times, it is obvious that when to capitalize and when not to capitalize is a translators’ decision based on their particular understanding of Scripture.

As it is used throughout Scripture, logos has a very wide range of meanings along two basic lines of thought. One is the mind and products of the mind like “reason,” (thus “logic” is related to logos) and the other is the expression of that reason as a “word,” “saying,” “command” etc. The Bible itself demonstrates the wide range of meaning logos has, and some of the ways it is translated in Scripture are: account, appearance, book, command, conversation, eloquence, flattery, grievance, heard, instruction, matter, message, ministry, news, proposal, question, reason, reasonable, reply, report, rule, rumor, said, say, saying, sentence, speaker, speaking, speech, stories, story, talk, talking, teaching, testimony, thing, things, this, truths, what, why, word and words.

The word logos then, denoting both “reason” and “speech,” was a philosophical term adopted by Alexandrian Judaism before St. Paul wrote, to express the manifestation of the Unseen God in the creation and government of the World. It included all modes by which God makes Himself known to man. As His reason, it denoted His purpose or design; as His speech, it implied His revelation. Christian teachers, when they adopted this term, exalted and fixed its meaning by attaching to it two precise and definite ideas: (1) “The Word is a Divine Person,” (2) “The Word became incarnate in Jesus Christ.” It is obvious that these two propositions must have altered materially the significance of all the subordinate terms connected with the idea of the logos. [17]

John 1:10

1. This verse is a reference to the Father, not to Christ. A study of the context reveals that this section opens in verse 6 by telling us, “There came a man who was sent by God.” We are told, “God is light,” and that God’s light shown through Jesus Christ and made him “the light of the world.” Though God was in the world in many ways, including through His Son, the world did not recognize him. He came unto his own by sending his exact image, Jesus Christ, to them, but even then they did not receive God, in that they rejected His emissary. The fact that the world did not receive Him is made more profound in the context as Scripture reveals how earnestly God reached out to them—He made his plan and purpose flesh and shined His light through Christ to reach the world—but they did not receive Him, even though He was offering them the “right to become children of God” (v. 12).

2. Some scholars make the phrase, “the world was made by him,” a reference to the new creation only (see Col. 1:15-20, Heb. 1:2, and Heb. 1:10), but we see it as a double entendre referring to both the original and the new creations (see #7 under John 1:1, and Chapter 9).

Now please present the evidence you have against it and we will go from there

I already did… more than once. Maybe you should just re-read the thread.

You don’t tell people your position on things…

Yes… I do… constantly. You just haven’t been paying attention.

…and you keep calling people names for not knowing your position on God is. That’s a stupid game to play.

I call people names when they deserve it. If they lack the courtesy to actually READ what I’m saying and respond to WHAT I’M SAYING (instead of sidestepping the issues), I have no problem insulting them DIRECTLY, when they’ve already insulted me INDIRECTLY.

and Captain Assassin I don’t have the answers for everything. I’m speaking from my personal studies and what I have learned from the evidence I’ve examined. The evidence against the Bible and the evidence for the bible. From the research I’ve done after dropping all of my presuppositions (which the experimentalist America find hard to do) and this is the conclusion that I’ve come to. If you don’t believe as I believe, I respect that. My goal is to know truth. and when I saw that Christ made the claim “ I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, No one comes to the Father except by Me” I looked into The Person of Jesus Christ. For me the evidence weighs out for Him that He is who He says He is. If you don’t believe it, thats fine. If you have any questions I’ll do my best to answer them, But I’m certain that you would find it hard to listen to anything anyone tells you if you find everything up for debate.

And If it is false that Jesus didn’t exist then Someone with the EXACT same name at the EXACT same time existed lol.

Ok I have a question for you Jusebox. First I would like to know what does the trinity mean to you?

Where are you being taught the doctrine of the from, If you don’t mind me asking? Is it a website or a Pastor or what?

If Jesus was god, he would be invisible. Or we would die if we saw his face. That’s what bible says, at least.(Joh 1:18)(Exo 33:20)(1Tim 6:16) Besides, you can not know whether Jesus was sent by god or not. So stating that he was, just because bible says so, is irrational way of thinking, in my oppinion.

My goodness every time you post something I’m a step behind, you have great questions and I can answer just about every one just have to be patient with me lol…Please I don’t want to argue I have no intent of doing so.

because it is really hard to believe and even PROVE that there isn’t a God.

I don’t call it ‘really hard’ …I call it impossible…

Oh and if the disciples new 100% that Jesus was God then why didn’t they ever say anything…and you can’t just say it’s a 100% that is just isn’t correct.

No intention to argue either. :) I would just offer the first Chapter of John which states it clearly. 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

Skip down to 14 14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

WRONG. YOU have been spouting ignorance this entire time… and you’ll no doubt continue to do so. Which is perfectly fine. The initial purpose was to make you think, but you’ve made it clear that you don’t think for yourself. So I moved on… not to convince YOU that you don’t make any sense… but to convince others reading it… as per usual…

sigh

Typical… theists are so easily talked into a corner. It is so rare for them to simply admit that THEY… DONT… KNOW…

It was very nice talking to you, jusebox I would like to talk to you more about this subject once I can give you a answer, I have been researching for a couple of years and have learned a lot through my research, I want to know the truth and feel that I already do I just don’t know if fully and believe I will never understand the truth fully…I am only 19 and am still getting to know more about what the bible says and am learning some Greek. Please I don’t want to be misunderstood I really do like talking about this with you…I have a passion for this kind of stuff…hehe…God Bless.

So are you basically saying Life is “Pointless?”

Why would Jesus give us hope if life is pointless? that doesn’t make any sense to me.

The difference between the gods mentioned by others and Yahweh or I AM is that He sent Jesus Christ (Himself) to earth to reveal to us Who was invisible to our eyes. Proof. What do other religions have to offer?

…proof… of what? You say that as if you were there to witness it. Well, you weren’t. The only connection you have is the Bible. A book cannot prove ITSELF to be true. You need external sources to validate it, of which there aren’t any.

It is impossible for you to prove the Bible holds and accurate depiction of God, Jesus, and all the metaphysical fantastic imagery within its pages. For that matter, you cannot prove that Jesus IS God, or the son of God; since scriptures depict BOTH.

Of all the scriptures you mentioned, do you simply ignore all the OTHER scriptures, where Jesus refers to God as father, and speaks directly to him. Was he… talking to himself?

It doesn’t Come out and say God is Triune.But these are the Manifestations that God revealed Himself to us in, Or spoke of. Think of it like this

Isn’t it interesting that the entire physical universe (uni = one) consists of three and only three aspects—space, time, and matter? If you were to take away any of these three, you would no longer have a universe. Space consists of length, width, and height—three in one. If you were to take away any of these dimensions, you would no longer have space. Time consists of past, present, and future—three in one. If you were to take away any of these aspects, you would no longer have time. Matter consists of energy in motion producing phenomena—three in one. If there were no energy there could be no motion or phenomena. If there were no motion, there would be no energy or phenomena. If there were no phenomena, it would be because there was no energy or motion. These aren’t perfect representations because God is just too perfect to represent using something so small. But You said “ Jesus is not God” where in the bible does it come out and say that “Jesus is NOT God”. There is no Scripture. If anything Jesus was pointing to the fact that He was God in parables and in teaching and in Wordplay. This is why The Jews want to stone Him

We see this tri-unity composing the very fabric of the universe. Why would the universe reflect a trinitarian nature? Could it be that God made His universe to reflect His own trinitarian nature? I believe that God left His fingerprints on the work of His creation, and we see in it a reflection of the Trinity.

Our belief in the Trinity does not first come from our observation of the universe, but from Scripture. The following premises are all taught in the Bible and form the basis of the doctrine of the Trinity. Premise 1: There is only one God. “Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One Lord” (Deuteronomy 6:4). “For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me” (Isaiah 46:9). Premise 2: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all identified in Scripture as God. “God the Father” (Galatians 1:1). “the Word was God” (John 1:1). “why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit . . . . You have not lied to men but to God” (Acts 5:3–4). Premise 3: These three each relate to one another and to the world as distinct Persons. In Mark 1:10–11, Jesus is baptized, the Holy Spirit descends like a dove, and a voice from Heaven (the Father) says, “You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” We see here that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit could not be the same Person; they are distinctly acting in different roles at the same time. Toward the end of His ministry, Jesus said He would ask the Father to send to us “another Helper”—the Holy Spirit (John 15:26). Do you see the three distinct Persons involved in this request?

John 10:30 “I (Jesus) and the Father are One”

Clarification to my previous entry: last sentence should read: there will come a time when Salvation is no longer possible.

mmmhmm… But we do. Just gave what you asked for

Okay thats one interpretation, now please answer my questions.

Philippians puts it very clearly.

Wait He does not Lie? When did He say He couldn’t become Man and still Be God?

What is your definition of One?

Yeah Jusebox, Cargo Cult is the one… it is sometimes referred to as Cargo Sect. Same thing.

toadaly,

What I believe is Romans 10:9 =)

☻☺Thank you for your honest opinion qrr, but if I may comment on something, The people who wrote the bible didn’t write it off of there thoughts, God showed them what he wanted them to write and they wrote what they saw that is why it’s called Gods word oh by the way it’s not the Words are God…some people get mixed up with that.☺☻

That is correct, God can Not become Man He does not lie…There is things he is not capable of doing.

I will have to Research Colossians and Philippians I will answer you question as quickly as possible.

captainassassin it looks like you are the one that is wasting web space. You don’t tell people your position on things and you keep calling people names for not knowing your position on God is. That’s a stupid game to play.

Are you an atheist? If not what are you.? First say that and then answer jusebox .

Jesus did not use the words I AM GOD. Christ had a certain wordplay about the way he spoke. The Jews knew exactly what he was saying because on many occasions, they picked up stones to throw at Him for making claims and forgiving people. Which is God’s job. So I would ask why in the world would Jesus forgive people if He wasn’t in the Authority to do so

“…why do you believe what you believe…?”

Good question! I often wonder about that too when I hear people ‘reasoning’ about their religion.

Well put. But tell me this..Which of these gods have sent a manifestation of themselves to provide a way of knowing. The difference between the gods mentioned by others and Yahweh or I AM is that He sent Jesus Christ (Himself) to earth to reveal to us Who was invisible to our eyes. Proof. What do other religions have to offer?

The reason it is tough for you to explain is you are trying to provide truth that isn’t there. I know how you feel. Could you please repost the other questions you want me to answer. And I will try my best to get back to you on them! :)

Colossians 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

Sorry Toadaly I didn’t completely answer your question…

The reason why I believe what I believe is because, I paid attention and wanted to know the truth of God and had a strong passion to know who he was and what the Bible was really saying. I began to learn Greek and believe I have learned the truth =)

Research the Bible to refute this Teaching. Because the verse you just gave Doesn’t refute Jesus being God. God is Omnipotent therefore having the Ability to stretch throughout His Creation as He pleases. Are you simply saying that God is not capable of being fully man and fully God?

I don’t believe in gods, because I don’t have any respect for the idea of god.

I’m an Atheist because the ideas of god don’t make much sense, and the world is better explained without a god.

Jesus Christ is indeed a Man, But what about Colossians 1:16?

And these verses also

“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” (Philippians 2:5-11).

serinaty if as you say Jesus is not God I have a verse that seem to be a problem.

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Jesus was evidently talking about his body and he says “I will raise it up”. It may be that a man raise another dead man to life. But as we all know there is no way a dead man can raise himself up after three days It does say in may other places that God rose Jesus from death. But in this place Jesus explicitly says he will raise himself up. He was God is the only solution likely for this problem.

Jusebox, “…Which of these gods have sent a manifestation of themselves to provide a way of knowing…”

The answer to that is definitely NOT Jesus, but…, the gods of the Cargo Sects. They are, so far, the only deities that have verifiably manifested themselves. And they still do. For all to see… christians and atheists alike.

Do not be alarmed. Study a bit, and you will learn about some surprising facts…

d’okay.

Okay, fau if I may ask you a question how was the earth made? Do you believe in evalution?? Or nothing?

Then tell me if that is what He meant when He said this…Why did the Jews want Him crucified for Blasphemy?

interesting viewpoint.

I don’t worship for “fear”. that’s rediculous.

you seem really confused.

He also wasn’t a Man at the time of that Scripture. He became Man to bring us back to Him. Jesus has always been God, but Now He is Man and God, to be the perfect Mediator. Only God is perfect.

Assuming much?

Not in this case.

Look I’m not insulting anybody on this webpage.

You mean you aren’t LOOKING to insult… but you’re doing it anyway. Because you don’t seem to understand how to present your ‘beliefs’ to those who do not share them.

I’m here to point to Truth. And That Truth is in Christ Jesus.

Capitalizing ‘truth’ doesn’t make it the truth. Pointing is pointless if you can’t convince people, or lack a simple affinity to grant people the slightest inclination to take your ‘pointing’ seriously.

Oh here is another one

John 8:58-59: “‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.”

Remember Exodus 3:13-14? When Moses asked God who he should refer to Him as?

13 But Moses protested, “If I go to the people of Israel and tell them, The God of your ancestors has sent me to you,' they won't believe me. They will ask,Which god are you talking about? What is his name?’ Then what should I tell them?”

14 God replied, “I AM THE ONE WHO ALWAYS IS.* Just tell them, `I AM has sent me to you.’ “2

Yes, my question was “Why do you believe, what you believe?”

I don’t see what is wrong with this debate I don’t think people need to be so Closed minded…All it is, is a discussion that I believe is better for everyone to learn more about things that are out there. I try to be Open Minded as much as possible.. This has gotten me far. So I enjoy reading what you all had to say. I have nothing against any of you and have enjoyed reading what all of your answers were.

I just hope none of you guys make this into a argument, that won’t do any good over all.

Thanks again. =D

Your opinions exist outside of logic.

You continue to waste your breath… trying to cover up your inability to justify your opinions. ALL opinions regarding God exist outside logic, since the concept of God DEFIES logic.

Everything is subjective with the way you are suggesting everything, so it is my reaction to “assume” that you do not believe in Absolute truth.

WRONG. Don’t generalize… WRONG. Don’t assume…

I am called to give an account for the faith that I live and will eventually die by.

Maybe you should do that, instead of misrepresenting it…

While you have no account for anything except “there are no absolute truths” why? Because you believe there are no absolutes? Because you don’t want there to be? Because someone said there weren’t? Simply suggesting it does not make this statement to be true. And saying it would make it untrue, therefore void.

Once again, idiot… you don’t KNOW my postition on absolutes, and the concept of absolutes is NOT the issue at hand. PAY ATTENTION, and stop trying to cover up the potholes in your ‘logic’ with circular philosophical textbook banter. Or is ‘pointless babbling’ what Jesus has called you to do for his glory?

So given that you have a totally different presupposition than mine (Which mine I can give logical account to)

No… you can’t… and you haven’t…

Presenting a presuppostion based on evidence, while totally ignoring and avoiding evidence to the contrary… is subjective… and illogical.

I find no reason to argue our differences.

Yet… here you are… doing it… for some time now. You don’t even know what our ‘differences’ are. This entire waste of webspace was caused BY YOU, and your inability to answer a simple question.

I’ll give a few

You’re only providing sources from which scripture was potentially DERIVED from. And you’re avoiding the issue again. I have no doubt, that a person writing thousands of years ago, could at some point, reference current events. Or they could record stories they’ve heard about past events, and those stories may or may not be accurate. The issue is GOD, not historical events that were documented in the Bible. Homer’s Illiad has many documented historical events, does that mean all of the Greek gods exist? NO. Are there outside sources that validate SOME of the historical events that occured in Homer’s book? YES. Are there outside sources that validate the imagery, monsters, and mythological figures depicted? NO.

There are NO outside sources that validate the Bible’s depiction of God.

That is…simply..because..He…IS..both :/ But given the fact that you haven’t understood the Trinity yet, There would be no reason to explain it all over again..

There’s nothing to understand, because your presentation of it doesn’t make any sense. You simply choose to accept it. The term ‘trinity’ was derived by theists in attempt to explain the inexplicable. It took something simple, and complicated it with a circular explanation that ultimately leads nowhere: ‘’We believe in the ONE TRUE GOD… well there’s actually THREE of them… but they are ONE… but they sometimes talk to each other separately… but they’re still ONE.’’ Yeah… there no amount of explaining that’ll convey THAT one.

No he was talking to God the Father

Why does he have to talk to the father, when he IS the father?

And If I’m not mistaken Captain, you do the exact same thing

…yeah… you’re mistaken…

except you have no answer for anything.

…sounds like an absolute… more like a blanket-statement… and totally WRONG.

Why do you argue against what may not be real in the first place.

I’m equally (if not more) qualified to ‘discuss’ things that may or may not be real. And I never said I was ‘against’ it (whatever you consider ‘it’ to be) …so quit assuming… you’re only further discrediting your own opinions.

If YOU are right in the way YOU think then what would be the point of being on this website and conversing back and forth and stressing YOUR Truth/nontruth ? I would say answere those questions but those answers may not be absolute. But this all may be a dream. So what would be the point of continuing this conversation?

Its hypocrisy for you to spout such nonsense… you’re clearly just avoiding the issues at hand. Grow up… the response you’ve been avoiding all this time is simple… YOU… DON’T… KNOW…

Become familiar with saying it.

Here is some absolute truth for you. If you went outside and put your head on a train track and let a train run over the tack with your head on it you would be decappatated and die. Or would you. Thats my truth is it Yours?

NOT ABSOLUTE… highly plausible… my head could also be crushed, or pulverized, or split in half… the train could also switch tracks or even de-rail BEFORE it reaches me… ALL PLAUSIBLE; since I have no control over the train, I can only place my head on the track.

Care to try harder? When you’re not too busy, of course…

Okay Excuse me for using the Three persons. Let me rephrase it. God in three Manifestations of Himself. And Yes Jesus was talking to Himself, God the Father. If Jesus Christ was just a man (Hypothetically speaking) He would have just died and only He Himself would have gotten to heaven. He followed the commandments so He would have just died for Himself. And Still everyone else would have been doomed for hell. If you follow all of the Ten Commandments (Gods standard to get into heaven) perfectly, you would go to heaven..Since that isn’t the case for anyone (except Jesus Christ) God had to humble Himself through the manifestation of Christ and live as a man and carry the weight of all of our Sins to the cross. (even the ones who don’t except HIm for who He is). For 1aby Him all things were created, aboth in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether bthrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—call things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things 2hold together. 18 He is also ahead of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

Did you get that? He is the Creator! He has always been! And He will always be. It doesn’t get anymore clear than that. By Him all things were made in Heaven and in Earth. Only God can do these things.

I am a deist. I used to consider myself Christian, but I didn’t really fall under that category I.t.o. what I believed. Then I discovered deism (with a bit of help.lol) and realised that my beliefs fall directly under that category.

I believe the following: There is a higher power out there, because the world seems just to complicated for it to have been chance. Also we cannot fully explain exactly how the universe created, there are only theories to it.

I don’t care what that higher power is, I call it a “God” but it doesn’t have a name and I don’t follow any religious books, to me they are just people’s experiences of the world.

Also I don’t care what happens to me when I die, I can become part of the earth for all that I care. If there is a God, he/she will take care of it. I don’t have to worry.

Colossians is a tough area that is for sure…I will have to get back to you with that one…

But please answer my other questions.

1 Samuel 15:29

“Also the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind.”

Isaiah 7:14

Some people believe that because Jesus was to be called “Immanuel” (“God with us”), he must be God incarnate. That is not the case, and for a full explanation of this, see the note on

Matthew 1:23.

1. The name can be translated as, “God with us” or “God is with us.” We know that God was with the people in Jesus Christ, and Jesus himself said that if one had seen him, he had seen the Father.

2. The significance of the name is symbolic. God was with us, not literally, but in His Son, as 2 Cor. 5:19 (NASB) indicates: “That God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself.” It is important to read exactly what was written: God was in Christ, not God was Christ. Symbolism in names can be seen throughout the Bible. It is not unique to Jesus Christ. Many people were given names that would cause great problems if believed literally. Are we to believe that Elijah was “God Jehovah,” or that Bithiah, a daughter of Pharaoh, was the sister of Jesus because her name is “daughter of Jehovah?” Are we to believe that Dibri, not Jesus, was the “Promise of Jehovah,” or that Eliab was the real Messiah since his name means “My God [is my] father?” Of course not. It would be a great mistake to claim that the meaning of a name proves a literal truth. We know that Jesus’ name is very significant—it communicates the truth that, as the Son of God and as the image of God, God is with us in Jesus, but the name does not make Jesus God. For more on the fact that calling something does not make it that thing, see the notes on Jeremiah 23:6.

Hey Just kind of going off of your testimony FilletofSpam. But In the world today we all have the same evidence. We should all know that evolution happened on some kind of level ( either Macro or Micro). But each belief ( Lets just use Evolutionist and Creationist) are based off of presuppositions. Given this, depending on what you base your presupposition off of ( The thoughts and beliefs you use to input into the evidence given to form out your world view) is what you will get in the end formula. Like say if you believe that the world is billions of years old..you would not believe in The Bible being true simply because the timeline in the Bible would go back to only 6000 years. That would make the answer to your formula of beliefs come out WAY different than the answer to what Christians would use. I would challenge you to use The Bible and test the evidence given there and study it. I find it really hard to be an Atheist and I have a certain respect for those people who are. because it is really hard to believe and even PROVE that there isn’t a God. But I will be praying for you. I hope that God shows you Truth in your studies. And I would consider looking at the Person of Jesus Christ. because He is the Image of the Invisible God - Colossians 3:15. If His claims and His statements and teachings don’t measure out to His Life, Death, and Resurrection (If it happened) then I would understand why all would question if there is a God. If you have any questions on where to start I would be glad to help you

jusebox, I spent some difficult times considering both sides. I’ve studied both Christian apologetics and criticism. Folks who think that I am an atheist out of ignorance have it wrong, the more I study and learn the less likely Christianity seems. I do think there is a lot of good stuff in the Bible but those who take it literally get bogged down in details rather than see the main points. The age of the cosmos is not a theological question for me. There were atheists long before the theory of evolution or modern understanding of time and space. The majority of Christians believe the cosmos is billions rather than thousands of years old; they consider the Biblical account of creation as allegorical rather than literal. Most believers have a dualism where religion and science do not have to agree because they are the answers to different questions.

I can not prove God does not exist. I also can not prove leprechauns don’t exist. There mere fact that I can’t disprove something doesn’t mean that I should believe in it.

There are lots of different gods people believe in. Christians disbelieve in all of them except the Abrahamic God. Atheists simply believe in one fewer gods than Christians. The way you dismiss all of the other gods but your own is the same way atheists dismiss yours.

Until I was 12 I was raised as a Presbyterian and believed all the main tenets of Christianity. My mom went back to college part time when I started Kindergarten which was a real eye opener for her. Her classes on world history and anthropology gave her new perspective on her own religion and classes in philosophy and logic allowed her to see the fallacies that it was built upon. When I was 12 I was spouting off about evil godless communist Soviets and my mom told me that she no longer believed in God and she was not evil and not a communist (dyed in wool Republican to this day in fact).

This was rather traumatic for me. She had raised me as a Christian and I believed that I felt God’s presence everywhere. I knew that my mom was a good person so this shattered my stereotype of atheists. She told me why she no longer believed and her arguments were sound and well thought out.

I had to decide what I believed though. I had a very difficult 2 weeks. I vacillated between agreeing with my mom that Christianity was absurd and praying as hard as I could for God to forgive me and to steer my mom back to Christianity. At the end of the 2 weeks reason won out over myth and superstition and I’ve been an atheist ever since.

Not really, I’ve only suggested logical information. Your opinions exist outside of logic. Everything is subjective with the way you are suggesting everything, so it is my reaction to “assume” that you do not believe in Absolute truth. Even though the mere suggestion of such of a statement caves in on itself (so who is really getting discredited here?) I am called to give an account for the faith that I live and will eventually die by. While you have no account for anything except “there are no absolute truths” why? Because you believe there are no absolutes? Because you don’t want there to be? Because someone said there weren’t? Simply suggesting it does not make this statement to be true. And saying it would make it untrue, therefore void. And by standing by this “untruth” no one really credits what you say except the same people who have the same presupposition. So given that you have a totally different presupposition than mine ( Which mine I can give logical account to) I find no reason to argue our differences. You have the right to rebuke anything I say. but I will not reply back because I will continue to find any statements made by your “untruth” void. Thanks

Here is a little info about that verse (John 10:30)

“There is no reason to take this verse to mean that Christ was saying that he and the Father make up “one God.” The phrase was a common one, and even today if someone used it, people would know exactly what he meant—he and his father are very much alike. When Paul wrote to the Corinthians about his ministry there, he said that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, “he who plants and he who waters are one” (1 Cor. 3:8 - KJV). In the Greek texts, the wording of Paul is the same as that in John 10:30, yet no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up “one being.” Furthermore, the NIV translates 1 Corinthians 3:8 as “he who plants and he who waters have one purpose.” Why translate the phrase as “are one” in one place, but as “have one purpose” in another place? In this case, translating the same phrase in two different ways obscures the clear meaning of Christ’s statement in John 10:30: Christ always did the Father’s will; he and God have “one purpose.” “

lol So it would have to be completly absolute that you meant solid evidence. If any of it has anything to do with something thats expementalist I usually ignore it. Because You can;t get around the fact that there are absolute truths. So when you come to the conclusion they are. Then we can converse, otherwise there isn’t much to say to you because you are in fantasy land where it is questionable if anything exist. Although if you repost this so called “evidence” I’ll try and get back to you. the reason I negated The first evidence is because he denies the very existance of Christ. That isn’t even an issue. If you provide information such as “ it is likely Christ didn’t exist” I automatically ignore it. Because that is a broad statement with no evidence to back the statement up. Just Presuppositions. So when you drop the poorly supported claims I’ll try and help you guys see Truth. Also I don’t spend much time on here seeing as The Lord Jesus Christ has called me to be other places for His Glory.

John 20:27-28

1. Jesus never referred to himself as “God” in the absolute sense, so what precedent then did Thomas have for calling Jesus “my God”? The Greek language uses the word theos, (“God” or “god”) with a broader meaning than is customary today. In the Greek language and in the culture of the day, “GOD” (all early manuscripts of the Bible were written in all capital letters) was a descriptive title applied to a range of authorities, including the Roman governor (Acts 12:22), and even the Devil (2 Cor. 4:4). It was used of someone with divine authority. It was not limited to its absolute sense as a personal name for the supreme Deity as we use it today.

2. Given the language of the time, and given that Jesus did represent the Father and have divine authority, the expression used by Thomas is certainly understandable. On the other hand, to make Thomas say that Jesus was “God,” and thus 1/3 of a triune God, seems incredible

If your talking about me I am not insulting Jesus Christ I never said I didn’t believe he died on the cross for our sins I just said I don’t believe he is God. I have done a lot of research for myself and what I read out of the Bible is different then what you might read…So please don’t say I’m Insulting Jesus Christ because that is not my intent I still believe he died for my sins and rose again.

Why is it important to believe that Jesus is both God and man? For one, our salvation requires it. The death of a mere man (no matter how noble) could not provide the infinite purchase price required to redeem other men from their sins, nor satisfy the payment of sins against an infinite God. But Jesus, being eternal and infinite, was able to satisfy the penalty for sins against an infinite being by his death. However, Jesus had to be fully human as well in order to redeem Adam’s fallen race. The substitutionary atonement required that Jesus Christ must have died as a man to bear judgment for the sins of men. Only the God-man could bridge the gap and bring both God and man together. As a man, He lived a perfect life and thus is qualified to be our High Priest and Savior (Hebrews 2:17, 7:24–28). Only this kind of Savior can meet us in our desperate need and at the same time satisfy the demands of a Holy and a righteous God.

Look I’m not insulting anybody on this webpage. I’m here to point to Truth. And That Truth is in Christ Jesus.

Your Very welcome fau, it was very nice talking to you too. If you would like to talk just Fun Mail me. =)

lol I just looked at your Profile, so instead I guess just comment on my profile if you wanna talk. =)

The Bible doesn’t Contradict it self we just misunderstand what it is saying or misread it.

Your right Jesus never did sin, but he did have emotions and trouble with things he had to do, he is sinless, I am not the best person to explain this if you would like look up this website to get more information…

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/index.php

And look at these to help you understand where I got a lot of my info

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=109

God Bless

you’re right. it would be hard to see those things if we didnt have scripture telling us what really happened. but we do. that’s why he can’t just be a good person. the scriptures say exactly who he was, so there is no mystery. The only things that are confusing are the things that man has made gray over the years…such as this business of the “trinity” and “rapture”.

Who Jesus was and still is is clearly defined in the bible. so if you believe that the bible is the word of God, then the answer should be clear to you. If the answer is not clear to you, then maybe you should study your beliefs and the bible a little more. find out what you actually know versus what you believe, and think.

again, I’m not demeaning you in any way, I’m just trying to help you sort through what you say you believe…to me it sounds like you’re confused, but you don’t really know it yet.

why do I believe what I believe? because I’ve researched it, read, prayed, and developed a testimony of it. that was your question, correct?

“In reply to this post if captainassassin does not state, in plain words, what his position is or what his belief is, then I appeal to all Christians on this site to not reply to any of his posts and treat him as he did not exist.”

eternalife—so is there some sort of critierion for answering questions on funadvice now? I mean, I wouldn’t want to do it incorrectly. stop criticizing captainassassin because you dislike his opinions and how he answers questions. don’t EVER use christianity as an excuse to accomplish your own agenda/condemn others because they think differently. remember the crusades??

Solid? Like airtight? So are you hinting there is Absolute Truth?

…no… solid evidence meaning solid evidence… evidence that you STILL haven’t responded to. You seem to be avoiding it.

Jesus was evidently talking about his body and he says “I will raise it up”. It may be that a man raise another dead man to life. But as we all know there is no way a dead man can raise himself up after three days It does say in may other places that God rose Jesus from death. But in this place Jesus explicitly says he will raise himself up. He was God is the only solution likely for this problem.

Its hilarous how you pontificate… speaking in absolutes, then undercutting those absolutes with conditionals. You try to imply that certain parts should be taken literally, while ignoring others. Once again, interpretation to suit your opinions… nothing more.

Well, indeed but my point was You have to Learn things for your self and not always rely on everyone else.

Relying on God is #1 indeed. But I believe I understand right I just miss used my words.

“the only true answers you will get is from yourself. “

you understand wrong.

true answers do not come from youself. look at the scripture that you quoted. it says that you have to trust in the LORD and not depend on what YOU know. truth and answers come from God through prayer and scripture study. not through your own self reliance. you have to give up yourself and put your trust in the Lord.

and Captain Assassin I don’t have the answers for everything. I’m speaking from my personal studies and what I have learned from the evidence I’ve examined.

But… you sound as though you are just ignoring solid evidence to the contrary…

I’m a christian and I believe in God just because I NEED something to believe in. I can’t go through this troublesome life not believing that something is better out there and that someone is watching over me through all my darkest hours. I’ve tried and if I didn’t find god I would have gone through with my suicide attempt. Living with two alcoholic parents (one being abusive) living in constant poverty, and not being given the chances to succeed is part of my everyday life. and I would probably break down and be depressed right now, but the thought that god will get me through it, that after this life I’ll spend eternity with him, and the thought that he loves me no matter what I do wrong…it comfortes me to a point where I know I can take on one more day. I hope this helped

                                <3 take care

What is your definition of Person?

You are still dodging the question. What is your position? If you are not capable of telling that in plain words or if you are unwilling to, then please why bother to post anything? You are playing it safe and wasting all out time.

In reply to this post if captainassassin does not state, in plain words, what his position is or what his belief is, then I appeal to all Christians on this site to not reply to any of his posts and treat him as he did not exist. I tell this because unless he does so, we will be just wasting time, internet time and web space by speaking to him.

I say this captainassassin not to insult you but because many of us have only very little time in a day on the internet and we would like spend that time on some serious discussion with people who are really interested.

There’s nothing to understand, because your presentation of it doesn’t make any sense. You simply choose to accept it. The term ‘trinity’ was derived by theists in attempt to explain the inexplicable. It took something simple, and complicated it with a circular explanation that ultimately leads nowhere.

Nope, Now you are just simply being ignorant. Goodbye

Oh Jusebox I have a better way of saying what I said to you in my last comment,

He is the only man who was ever born of a virgin (Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:35). God put a perfect seed in the womb of Mary so that Jesus would be born without the sin nature that every other human being inherited from the First Adam(Through the Blood). Therefore, Jesus is the only-begotten Son of God (John 3:16) and the Son of Man (John 5:27).

Also that Scripture in Numbers you used is out of Context. He is not LIKE a man. Because He doesn’t Lie.

I got my doctrine from the Bible and have learned by going to different Christian Groups…I don’t get my information from Church organizations like that.

A couple of years ago I did believe in the Trinity but have learned from varies people that some of it was mistranslated that made me a little confused at first but with some study and researching I have learned that it is true. and see why people got confused with what the bible said. I know a lot of Christians and people that help me with understanding the Bible and Greek.

Although Greek is not the same as it use to be you have to do a lot of studying and understanding to know what some words or other things mean.

Roman Catholic Church forced people to believe Jesus was God for two thousand years since 325 AD.

That is why Christians have adopted that view.

And If I’m not mistaken Captain, you do the exact same thing, except you have no answer for anything. and even when you do who knows if this is the absolute? Why do you argue against what may not be real in the first place. If YOU are right in the way YOU think then what would be the point of being on this website and conversing back and forth and stressing YOUR Truth/nontruth ? I would say answere those questions but those answers may not be absolute. But this all may be a dream. So what would be the point of continuing this conversation?

Here is some absolute truth for you. If you went outside and put your head on a train track and let a train run over the tack with your head on it you would be decappatated and die. Or would you. Thats my truth is it Yours? :)

Yes you are right “Jesus is more then ‘just’ a good person”

Why does Jesus have to be God?? Why can’t Jesus just be a sacerfice for our sins?? Jesus is the medeator of heaven and earth. Can’t Jesus just be doing Gods will??

Do you believe God is three manifstations of himself? If so why do you believe that?

Why would Jesus sit at the right hand of God if he is God??

The reason behind my belief is just the truth that sits right in front of me. The truth isn’t hard to find it’s just ‘people’ make it look hard and say “it’s a mistory” you can choose to seek out truth or you can choose not to. Up to you. r

jusebox: At this point in history it isn’t even provable that Jesus existed. There are surprisingly few extra-Biblical references to Jesus and some of the few are suspected to be forgeries by many scholars. Christians use circular logic. The Bible is true because it is the word of God and Jesus and God exists because the Bible says so. I see nothing in Christianity that makes it unique among the religions that have come before and since. In fact, it often seems like an amalgamation of earlier religions. Remember that Zoroaster came centuries before Jesus and said many of the same things. When you look at the stories of Jesus, Horus, Krishna, Osiris, Baccus, Mithra, etc. there are so many parallels that the hero-savior story seems archetypal.

But also in the Bible is there no where that says “Jesus isn’t God” like you are claiming . There is One God, In three manifestations. This is what he taught and yes I gave you a verse that is pretty clear in Jesus being God. Actually a lot of them. Because that was the basis of all Christ’s Teachings. That he was God, but he gave the Glory to His Father in Heaven, But His Father in heaven seated Him at His right hand of Glory Honor and Power, Forever and Ever Amen!

I would like to say more but am notnear a computer and typing on an ipod isn’t to easy so I will get back to you soon.

So I would ask you, How can a mere man, Live without sin, and then Die a death that atones for Every man’s sin? If Jesus were not God. Then it would be pointless for Him to have died for us because only God has the ability to Forgive our Sins. You are offering that the Bible is Contradicting itself in the translation that you are offerering

Okay. I pray that you find Truth in your research. and Maybe even consider the websites that you are researching and Drop the Presupposition that Jesus isn’t God. Because you will not find truth if you do not humble yourself. I see where you are coming from but Test the Spirits in what I am saying. Let me know what you find out :)

You are using that Scripture out of Context. That Scripture is saying that He is not LIKE a man to change His mind about something.

Oh and just one last question..Why is it such a big emphasis for you to Say that Jesus isn’t God? Ask yourself that..Answer it to yourself..and then get back to me.

I’m just confused…if you say you believe in the bible, then you would have to believe that Jesus was more than just a good person. I’m not trying to demean you, I’m just trying to understand your belief and why you think that way.

1st timothy 2 5

2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Why does it say there is “One God” and NO where in the bible does it say Jesus the God?

“For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

But I want this answer from you. How Could Jesus Atone for Every man’s Sin if He wasn’t God? How could He live a sinless life if he Wasn’t God? Please answer these questions, if not for me for yourself. Why do the disciple emphasize Jesus being God if He wasn’t really God. How can someone who isn’t God be the Image of the Invisible God?

I will be happy to answer you momentarily but I would like to research a little before I answer I want to make sure I answer the question correctly

But… you sound as though you are just ignoring solid evidence to the contrary…

Solid? Like airtight? So are you hinting there is Absolute Truth?

You just violated the definition of a person, a person in Websters dictionary does not mean 3 in 1.

God The Father, God The Son, And God the Holy Spirit. God in three persons existing as One.

(He still hasn’t given explanation for the scriptures where Jesus refers to God as father, and speaks directly to him. If Jesus and God were the same entity, why would he have dialogue with himself?)

I have made myself clear in what I have said I believe and will not try and prove myself if people choose not to listen.

I just told you in the bible that it says, that Jesus Christ is a Man no where does it say that He is God, there is many places where it says Jesus Christ The Man. Jesus is Only Man not “Man God and Spirit.”

I believe in a higher being. I think we’re only human and we can try to follow the bible, but it’s impossible. I don’t always agree with the church or the bible. Of course, humans wrote the bible so it can’t be perfect or accurate because it was made by humans. Its very sexist, and that was a time where sexism was not unusual. I don’t think this higher being is sexist, and if he is, then he is not perfect. I also think sometimes the church has created their own idea of Jesus or God, not all churches, but some. I think they have dressed him up to be some sort of market item, or in that case, under-dressed him.

But other than that, I do believe in a God. :) there has to be something more than just science to this world and us.

Alright, I’ll do my best by answering that question.

“How Could Jesus Atone for Every man’s Sin if He wasn’t God?”

Like I said before I believe that Jesus was a Very important person and God knew this and made it that way, God can do anything Right?, how did Jesus do this, well I don’t think Jesus had an easy way of doing any of this I think he struggled with what was ahead of him.

God was tempted and he did struggle so I believe that God stayed faithful and prayed and that is how he got through all of it.

“How could He live a sinless life if he Wasn’t God?”

You know I really don’t know how to answer that question right now, but I will come up with a answer soon enough I just need to do some more research.

Whats your position on anything? Or do you have one

Because You havent given account for anything except for repute of Christianity. Nor have you given evidence against such. You are merely in a state of insulting me for telling you Truth in Christ Jesus.

Typical… theists are so easily talked into a corner. It is so rare for them to simply admit that THEY… DONT… KNOW…

Generalization

Still insulting. Insulting is trying to feel the void for ignorance. But I know, It just so much easier to just call me names than to present evidence (Which you dont have) against Christianity.

John 20:27-29: “Then He said to Thomas, ‘Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.’ Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.’”

Notice how Jesus did not Repute Thomas saying this to Him? :)

Here’s what I believe: God being pure cannot even look upon sin - man, even in his very best state is a sinner - on judgement day, either: your sins are covered by the blood-shed sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross (salvation and only salvation - being a nice person isn’t good enough - even at our very best, we are but filthy rags), and remembered no more or they are not (your sins are not covered) - where God’s great love comes into play is, He provided a WAY (Jesus) for us not to perish and live in Heaven with Him (He certainly didn’t have to do this but did because He loved us so) - if you read carefully John 3:16, this is exactly what it says - each person will either accept or reject, you must decide for yourself and yes, it’s so important, it has eternal consequences - He Loves you and wants you to accept God’s free gift to man - Jesus - there will come a time when He cannot be found.

From the scriptures we know that Jesus Christ was the literal son of Heavenly Father, therefore making Him a God himself. He wasn’t just a prophet, good person, or great teacher. If you believe in the Bible. then I don’t see how you can debate that point. It’s pretty clear.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Are Persons Living in Relationship The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not impersonal entities. They each possess personhood and from eternity past have lived in personal relationship with each other. We call them Persons because they live in relationship with one another and because they all exhibit qualities of “personhood” (I.e., will, emotion, intellect, moral character, etc.). Each member of the Trinity can refer to Himself as “I” and can communicate to another member of the Trinity as “You.” Though the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God, they are distinct enough to love one another, to give to one another, to communicate to one another, to live for one another, and to indwell one another. The Son’s Relationship to His Father How does the Son relate to the Father? From all eternity the Son has been the Father’s beloved and “only begotten Son” (John 3:16; 17:5). Jesus said that the Father had granted Him as Son “to have life in Himself,” just “as the Father has life in Himself.” The Son is eternally self-existent as God and is of the same nature as the Father, yet His existence is from the Father. Eternally, the Son has related to the Father as a Son, and the Father has related to the Son as a Father, though not in a physical sense. Since the Son has eternally related to the Father as a Son, He is eternally submissive to the Father. That is why the Son allowed Himself to be sent by the Father into the world. And that is why Jesus said, “My Father is greater than I.” This statement by Jesus only refers to the authority structure within the Godhead; it does not refer to any difference between the nature of the Father and the nature of the Son. It is important to stress that Christ’s submission to His Father does not in any way diminish His nature as God the Son. He is equal to the Father in essence. He is to be worshiped and glorified on the same level as the Father. Jesus said that all should honor Him “just as they honor the Father.” The Holy Spirit’s Relationship to the Father and Son The word used to show the relationship between the Holy Spirit and the other members of the Trinity is proceeding. In John 15:26, Jesus said that He would send to us the Holy Spirit, “which proceeds from the Father.” Though the Spirit proceeds from the Father, He is equal to the Father and the Son and is to be equally honored. Keep in mind that this proceeding and sending is happening between three Persons living in loving relationship with each other.

If you are Christian, however you do not believe Jesus is God, then you are mixed up.Nothing personal… but Christian means those affiliated with Christ = Jesus. If you believe in God, and feel that Jesus was high up but nothing else, you might want to consider another religion, such as Judaism or Islam - that is, if you still believe in the Abraham based God.

Now I am confused why did you mix Egyptian with Christianity? This has nothing to do with what Captain or I was talking about.

The previous messages were in reply to filletofspam and captainassassin. My questions to you are being sent by PM

Numbers 23:19

God is not a man, that He should lie

fau, that makes me so happy to read. I haven’t been on for awhile because of dentist flu that happen to take up a lot of my time, anyways the only true answers you will get is from yourself. That is how I came to the faith I have in God now. Search and you shall find.

I would love to help you in any way I can. Knowledge in God is an inportent thing to have. Do not be miss led by people.

“Trust in the Lord with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding. Seek his will in all you do, and he will direct your path”

I see that :) But the Disciples understanding of Christ and even Jesus’ Wisdom of Himself is that He is 100 percent Human and 100 percent God. Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. I John 4:1-3; compare, 2 John 1:7.

The understanding that He is also the Son of Man is to signify that he Was indeed 100 percent human also. Through this we know that he went through every struggle that mankind goes through everyday. But he was also fully God. That is the only way we could have all been fully redeemed. Yes again he Was 100 percent Man. but He was most definitely 100 percent God. There is no question about it. God knows this, Jesus knows this, The disciples knew it. This is the way that God intended it to be translated.

I know the feeling … its not quite questioning your faith in god … but wondering why you do believe it? it can seem kind of mind boggling when you think of it. it hit me again earlier just how much I believe in - a god someone who created absolutly everything in our world I am christian and sometimes im just kind of like how? how can someone think and know everything and make it all happen but then I think how could it not be someone … how could it all just happen …we all have imaginations we think of things so think how much god could think of? this may sound kind of stupid but its the best way I can describe it … hope it makes some sort of sense and hope it helps sorry its soo late but better late than never!

I have an answer for your questions Jusebox.

“How could He live a sinless life if he Wasn’t God?”

He has Innocent blood because he was conceived from God, so he has Gods Perfect blood, Life is in the blood…

And refferring the whole Horus Jesus so called “Similarities”

Let me clear up some of this pish posh

1. Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.

Let’s take this one apart and deal with each separate issue:

Horus’ mother was not a virgin. She was married to Osiris, and there is no reason to suppose she was abstinent after marriage. Horus was, per the story, miraculously conceived. Seth had killed and dismembered Osiris, then Isis put her husband’s dead body back together and had intercourse with it. In some versions, she used a hand-made phallus since she wasn’t able to find that part of her husband. So while it was a miraculous conception, it was not a virgin birth.

Horus was given three different birthdates in mythology, one of which does correspond to December 25th. But since Jesus wasn’t, per the evidence, born on 12/25, this isn’t a parallel.

“Meri” (technically “Mr-ee”) is the egyptian word for “beloved” and was apparently applied to Isis prior to Jesus’ time, as a title, not as part of her name. But since there were probably thousands of women between Horus’ time and Jesus’ with a name or title that was a variation on “Mary”, there’s no real reason to suppose that Jesus’ mother was named after Isis in particular.

Horus was born in a swamp, not a cave/manger. Acharya’s footnotes for this point only make the claim that Jesus was born in a cave, and say nothing about Horus being born in one.

Horus’ birth was not announced by a star in the east

There were no “three wise men” at Horus’ birth, or at Jesus’ for that matter (the Bible never gives the number of wise men, and they showed up at Jesus’ home, not at the manger, and probably when Jesus was a year or two old).

Acharya’s source for the last two claims appears to be Massey, who says “the Star in the East that arose to announce the birth of the babe (Jesus) was Orion, which is therefore called the star of Horus. That was once the star of the three kings; for the ‘three kings’ is still a name of three stars in Orion’s belt . . . “ Massey’s apparently getting mixed up, and then the critics are misinterpreting it. Orion is not a star, but a constellation, of which the ‘three kings’ are a part. And even if there is a specific star called ‘the star of Horus’, there’s no legend stating that it announced Horus’ birth (as the critics are claiming) or that the ‘three wise men’ (the three stars in Orion’s belt) attended Horus’ birth in any way.

2. His earthly father was named “Seb” (“Joseph”).

First of all, there is no parallel between the Egyptian name “Seb” and the Hebrew name “Joseph”, other than the fact that they’re common names. Also, Seb was Osiris’ father, not Horus’.

3. He was of royal descent.

This one’s true! But it’s not really a comparison to Jesus. When followers speak of Jesus being of ‘royal descent’, they usually mean His being a descendent of King David, an earthly king. Horus was, according to the myth, descended from heavenly royalty (as Jesus was), being the son of the main god.

4. At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.

He never taught in any temple and was never baptized. Also, Jesus didn’t ‘disappear’ in the years between His teaching in the temple and baptism. He worked humbly as a carpenter.

5. Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by “Anup the Baptizer” (“John the Baptist”), who was decapitated.

Again, Horus was never baptized. There is no “Anup the Baptizer” in the story.

6. He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his “witnesses” and were named “Anup” and “Aan” (the two “Johns”).

Horus had four disciples (called ‘Heru-Shemsu’). There’s another reference to sixteen followers, and a group of followers called ‘mesnui’ (blacksmiths) who join Horus in battle, but are never numbered. But there’s no reference to twelve followers or any of them being named “Anup” or “Aan”.

7. He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”), from the dead.

He did perform miracles, but he never exorcised demons or raised his father from the dead. Also, Osiris is never referred to as ‘El-Azarus’ or ‘El-Osiris’ (clearly an attempt to make his name more closely resemble the Bible’s “Lazarus”).

8. Horus walked on water.

No, he did not.

9. His personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.” He was thus called “Holy Child.”

Horus was never referred to as “Iusa” (nor was anyone in Egyptian history - the word does not exist) or “Holy Child”.

10. He delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”

Horus never delivered such a sermon, and, as pointed out above, he was never referred to as “Iusa”.

11. Horus was transfigured on the Mount.

No, he was not.

12. He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.

Horus was never crucified. There’s an unofficial story in which he dies and is cast in pieces into the water, then later fished out by a crocodile at Isis’ request. This unofficial story is the only one in which he dies at all.

13. He was also the “Way, the Truth, the Light,” “Messiah,” “God’s Anointed Son,” the “Son of Man,” the “Good Shepherd,” the “Lamb of God,” the “Word made flesh,” the “Word of Truth,” etc.

The only titles Horus is given are “Great God”, “Chief of the Powers”, “Master of Heaven”, and “Avenger of His Father”. None of the above titles are in any Egyptian mythology.

14. He was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish (“Ichthys”), Lamb and Lion.

He was never referred to as “the fisher”, and there are no lamb or lion in any of the stories. Acharya S.’s footnotes on this claim only show an association with fish (which is that Horus WAS a fish, unlike Jesus), with no evidence of his being called ‘the fisher’ or having any association with a lamb or lion.

15. He came to fulfill the Law.

There was no “law” he was supposed to fulfill.

16. Horus was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One.”

He was never referred to by either of these titles. “Krst”, in Egyptian, means “burial”, by the way. It wasn’t a title.

17. Like Jesus, “Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years.”

No mention of this in Egyptian mythology.

Only someone who believes that Jesus is God and that He died on the cross and rose again on the third day to provide us Salvation is a Christian. If you don’t have such a belief you are not a Christian. Such people should refrain from refrain from calling themselves a Christian and insulting Jesus Christ.

Jesus is a person not a Manifestation.

Where does the scripture say God is three manifestations of Himself?

Where does it say in the Bible “Jesus is God”?

I will Fun-mail you with the answer for your questions, give me some time though. =)

Regarding the OP, you told us what you believe, but you didn’t tell us why you believe it.

I have no religious beliefs, because I haven’t come across any that are sensible and supportable.

Also tell me why in Titus, Paul referred to Him as God? Titus 2:13-14 13 while we look forward to that wonderful event when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed.

14 He gave his life to free us from every kind of sin, to cleanse us, and to make us his very own people, totally committed to doing what is right.

15 You must teach these things and encourage your people to do them, correcting them when necessary. You have the authority to do this, so don’t let anyone ignore you or disregard what you say.

Capitalizing ‘truth’ doesn’t make it the truth. Pointing is pointless if you can’t convince people, or lack a simple affinity to grant people the slightest inclination to take your ‘pointing’ seriously.

Good! You get it! I’m just providing you with the evidence I’ve compiled together for myself that brought me to the belief I am at now!

Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

“Immanuel” literally means: “God with us.” See also Matthew 1:23; Jesus was “God with us.”