What do you think of this assessment ?

Thank you sir - have a great Sunday !

amblessed, if you are truly the christian you say you are (and I am not doubting you are), I don’t understand how you could ignore the unecessary death and destruction this war has caused, and how you could support candidates who would continue it with no plans to ever end it.

mjax is right again… WWJD?

Hmm, I ask people for sources all the time and they never deliver. At least Amblessed is doing the right thing one last time.

Regardless of who wrote the paragraph, I think it’s nonsense.

Andyburton:

Obama is not Muslism, as your response insinuates:

“…even if Muslimic or Female presidents are not elected in times of unrest…”

See these threads for actual evidence: http://www.funadvice.com/q/does_this_reflect_pride_or_distain http://www.funadvice.com/q/barrack_hussein_obama http://www.funadvice.com/q/barrack_obama_and_the_57_states_of

Iraq is already in a bloody secterian war… the only thing that’s keeping them apart is walls and money, does the U.S. expect to pay them not to kill each other forever? Also, where do you think the money is going? These sects are all biding their time, taking the money, and stocking up on weapons…

good assessment dude

But wasn’t Jesus a pacifist? Didn’t Jesus say that you shouldn’t attack a man who wrongs you, if someone strikes your cheek aren’t you supposed to offer him your other cheek to strike instead of striking back? He said if someone steals your cloak to give the theif your shirt as well. He said to do good even to those who would harm you. I can’t find any justification for premptive war, waterboarding, or torture in the teachings of Jesus. Is following the examples of Jesus a sign of weakness to our enemies? Are our leaders gaining the whole world but loosing their soul?

Again, I have to apologize if it seems like everyone is piling on amblessed. I really am interested in what you think rather than attacking or scoring points.

Apology accepted - have a great week !!

“I think a nation has the right to defend itself and a single combat death is tragic - history will judge ‘unnecessary’ or ‘necessary’ actions to protect this nations freedoms and/or people - so with me, the jury is still out”

Every nation has the right to defend itself. Exactly what dangers were we facing from Iraq that we needed to defend ourselves from? This is not WWII, where the need to defend the world from a maniac was self evident. That war didn’t need to “sold” to the american people. Just as the war in afghanistan didn’t.

“Jesus/God is both Faithful and Just - remember Sodom and Gomorrah - so neither you nor I know exactly what He would do but we do know it would be just”

First off, I don’t believe in sodom and gomorrah, and that is not jesus of the new testament. And my question was about jesus the man, and what he taught. And from what I have learned in 8 years of parochial school, he would never have approved of the Iraq war. I see nothing in the beatitudes that would indicate he would approve of such actions. Didn’t he say “blessed be the peacemakers”? And would you say the man who said “blessed are the mericiful” would ever condone the use of torture for any reason?

“you say ‘plans to never end it’, is that accurate or is ‘until victory is achieved’ accurate - you decide - take care j-man.”

Depending on ones point of view, and the definition of “victory”. Still haven’t heard Bush or McCoot define victory, other than vague references to the Iraqis being able to stand up so we can stand down.

“Those other questions I won’t answer because: 1) every word I write answering those will be twisted, micro-examined, and put down by some others on here, not you fillet - “

Are you refering to moi? Seriously amblessed, I know I can be a bit argumentative, but I do not twist things you say. I only respond to questions and comments, just like you do. If I have gone too far at times, I appologize.

“2) I never see these same questions asked of a religion of the middle-east regarding their God - one-sided scrutiny - if and when I see others besides us being held responsible for their actions and asked these same questions, I’ll gladly respond to the best of my ability.”

Not really sure what to make of this. I have just as much disdain for the hypocrisy of fundamentalist muslims as I do with fundamentalist christians. And aren’t islam, judeism, and christianity all religions of the mideast. Don’t they all worship the god of abraham?

I do not have a say in who the leaders are in the mid east. I only have a say in who leads in the US. It is our leaders who are trying to use their christian piety as a justification for war and death. I have no choice but to speak out when I hear such talk. It would be unamerican not too.

You have a nice Monday amblessed…

Amblessed, can you recall who are you quoting and what the source is?

That’s not an assessment. That’s a republican, FOX News talking point based on fear… McSame As Bush… Not This Time…

amblessed: I know that this may be odd coming from an atheist to a Christian but I think there is a lot of wisdom in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus. I’m only singling you out among Christians here because you are always generous with your advice and thoughful in your answers. Years ago I saw lots of people wearing WWJD articles asking What Would Jesus Do?

Think about what the Bible teaches us about Jesus:

Who would Jesus bomb?

What nations would Jesus invade?

Would Jesus cower in fear or walk with courage?

Would Jesus love his enemies? Would he consider talking to enemies a weakness?

Would Jesus be a peacemaker or a warmonger?

Would Jesus cut taxes on the wealthy or try to help the poor?

Flossheal and I have been discussing religion and its effects on politics. While we both agree that Jesus can not be pigeonholed into a political party my reading of the Bible leads me to view Jesus as a bleeding heart liberal rather than an arch conservative. I see parallels between many of today’s Christian conservatives and the Pharisees in the Bible who were more interested in following rules than spreading love. I just don’t get how so many people read the same Bible as I do and interpret it so differently.

Radical Islam is not waging a war against the West. They are tired of us meddling in their affairs. Basically the longer we are over there the bigger our problems will become.

Mine was a personal opinion - nowhere in it did I mention religion - I make no claim to be mistake-free in anything I do - I do my best and pray for His guidance - my opinions are based on what I know to be true, what I have been taught, and my understanding - I think your last sentence contains the answer you seek - ‘people’ - no two people are alike - I see many, many Christians today with an intense love for people, so much so, that they actually CARE enough to mention to others ‘The Good News’ rather than play ‘I’ve got a secret’, which would be sooo much easier to do - it’s a shame Christians are painted with such a broad negative brush but that’s the state of the world we live in - again, just doing the best I can - I’ll be judged in eternity - it may mean nothing to you but I cannot put into words what it would mean to me I when I see Jesus, and He says “Well done”.

It’s like I said a few weeks ago. Obama will be painted as the chicken sh*t white-flag waver, McCain as the fanatical warmonger. That will go on until November, and probably beyond for whoever is elected.

Obama’s plan does not call for a complete withdrawl of US forces from Iraq, nor does it call for an end to fighting terrorism in Central Asia. In fact, Obama was one of the few candidates who had tough words for Pakistan, basically saying he’d be willing to strike at al-Qaeda targets in that country. Not even Bush has gone that far.

I’m also impressed by Obama’s stance on veterans affairs. As a veteran myself, I think it’s something this country and this administration have neglected far too long.

I loved the assesment and, if Barock Obomma does get elected which pray to God that he doesn’t, our enomies will attack us again if we pull out of Iraq which I don’t want!! Otherwise, its going to be a safe haven for the terrorists and, Obomma is just going to let them attack us again then we’d have another 3 thousand abiding Americans killed right? Anyway Obomma makes me nervous and, I’m afraid that we’re going to have another 911 and that won’t be a pretty sight. Did you hear about him wanting to meet with the brutal leader of Iran? Obomma is a flip flopper, and very naive and irresponsible. He doesn’t understand the threat that our enamies have against us and, he wants to be friends with them!!?? I mean, come On!! he’s a disgrace!! I’m sorry to be going on, but, he scares me.

While this assessment brings some truth. I’ll have to disagree with the statement “If Barack Obama is elected President of the United States, I fear our enemies will smell the blood of weakness and rise in retaliation here and abroad” Obama is a very powerful/successful person. I’m sure that he is aware of the consequences that may come, Is he prepared should be the question! He will make a big difference in the USA. People can’t obviously think that everything is going to cramble when and if Obama becomes president.

My understanding of Sodom and Gomorrah, the city was leveled because no good could be found - Evil was pervasive - God was ‘just’, not a ‘pacifist’ - as well as the time they were gambling at the temple, He vanquished the Evil taking place - again, my understanding - Those other questions I won’t answer because: 1) every word I write answering those will be twisted, micro-examined, and put down by some others on here, not you fillet - 2) I never see these same questions asked of a religion of the middle-east regarding their God - one-sided scrutiny - if and when I see others besides us being held responsible for their actions and asked these same questions, I’ll gladly respond to the best of my ability.

Be Thankful: Only two defining forces have ever offered to Die for you: Jesus Christ and the American Soldier - one died for your soul, the other for your freedom !

I’ve been fascinated following this discussion, which at first I thought was not too relevant to me. But the discussion between filletofspam and amblessed, both of whom I respect very much, has just triggered an old anecdote in my mind. It doesn’t answer the questions being raised, but it does contribute to our thought processes, perhaps.

A Christian minister was being interviewed for a job as a military chaplain. Of course it was very important to discover his attitude twards war, as he would meet and counsel many soldiers, sailors and airmen (what is the non-gender-specific term for ‘airmen’?).

The Christian soldier who was interviewing the minister asked: ‘What advice would you give to a young soldier who came to you, troubled by the idea that he was being asked to drop a bomb on a particular target?’

The minister answered: ‘I would have to do as I always do, ask the soldier what they thought Jesus would do in this particular circumstance.’

The interviewer errupted in disgust: ‘Jesus wouldn’t drop a bomb, man!’

That leaves us wondering… Would Jesus drop a bomb in any circumstances? If not, why can we? If so, why did the interviewer think it so impossible? Had he come to some kind of unreal separation of his faith from his life?… The questions go on…

What I said was my understanding - if I was in error I apologize - I cede to your superior Bible knowledge/understanding - you might note I did say not you: - >> put down by some others on here, >> not you fillet > My understanding of Sodom and Gomorrah, the city was leveled because no good could be found - Evil was pervasive - >>> God <<< was ‘just’, not a ‘pacifist’ <<

amblessed - “I’ll provide the source this time but this is the last - others on here are NEVER asked ‘source’ - I realize because I’m a Christian and a Conservative (not Republican) there is much bias against and I must jump through extra hoops - that’s fine with me because those haters here aren’t hard to spot - “

oh amblessed, you are correct it IS easy to spot the haters—

two answers from a CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE asking for MY sources… I guess that as a LIBERAL NON-CHRISTIAN I must also jump through extra hoops…

“amoeba please present the site where you read about Dr Kent Hovind, I would really apprecitate reading it myself, thank you.”
http://www.funadvice.com/q/can_creationists_be_real_scientists

and “Could you post the references that you were quoting?” http://www.funadvice.com/q/marijuana_is_good_or_is_it_bad_for

so, please cut the PITY PARTY where the evil haters pick on the christian conservatives…the street runs both ways.

amblessed: “LOL, not even my words but they obviously ‘hit home’ with the j-man, LOL !”

I never thought they were your words, but you posted them. I can only assume the intent is to rachet up the fear. It would not be the first time you have done it. Not sure what you mean by hit home. Did you really think I would agree with such ridiculousness.

And Sandy Rios? I see you still havn’t got that new TV yet, huh? You are still using the one with the channel stuck on FAUX News.

“j-man, Ronald Reagan is definitely a hero of mine - a Great LEADER, a Great PERSON - very much missed !!”

What a surprise. Reagan was the second worst president we have had. The mental midget currently occupying the oval office holds the title of worst ever. But ronnie set the stage for the likes of duby and dick.

I don’t have enough space on here to describe all of the things reagan did that have led to many of the problems today, but the biggest one was the deregulation of everything. That led to mass consolidation of businesses into huge corporations, which in turn then led to multi-national corporations infiltrating our government. He allowed the gorvernment of the people, for the people, and by the people, to become the government for sale to the highest bidder.

The myth of reagan will not stand the test of time.

amblessed: Sorry if I misunderstood who you were commenting to. I thought you were saying the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was justification for Christians violence; sometimes it is hard to follow the various threads.

flossheal: The Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) went through a similar thing in WWII. Tradationally they had been a pascifist movement but WWII caused many Quakers to question. Some Quakers remained true to their pacifist tradition while others choose to fight in WWII. Our most famous modern Quaker was Richard Nixon who’s Quaker upbringing did not stop him from waging war against Vietnam, Cambodia, and elsewhere. Of course most members of the RSoF did oppose Nixon and his war but now Quaker pacifism is left to the individual conscience of members.

Amblessed, I will quote one of your heros:

Well… there he goes again…

You keep fanning those flames of fear. The vast majority of the american public is not fooled by these fear tactics any more.

Take your fearmongering elsewhere…

I don’t understand Obama’s kid-gloves treatment of our enemies - I think it’s very dangerous and will lead to more Americans killed at home and abroad.

I haven’t decided who, if any I will support this time - Leadership is very, very lacking - I think a nation has the right to defend itself and a single combat death is tragic - history will judge ‘unnecessary’ or ‘necessary’ actions to protect this nations freedoms and/or people - so with me, the jury is still out - Jesus/God is both Faithful and Just - remember Sodom and Gomorrah - so neither you nor I know exactly what He would do but we do know it would be just - you say ‘plans to never end it’, is that accurate or is ‘until victory is achieved’ accurate - you decide - take care j-man.

Blood, blood, blood…sometimes I am ashamed to be human.

Love the planet, love your enemy…throw religion into the fire where it belongs.

Well, my ‘WWJD’ conclusions (so far) have not made me an out-and-out pacifist. All of your examples, filletofspam, are true and essential to Christian living. Ghandi was a wonderful example of a man who took those words at face value and showed their power. But I’m also very moved by the decisions of the Womens’ Pacifism Movement (I may have given that the wrong name) which sprang up in Britain during WW1 and thrived until Hitler began to show his true colours. At that point the Movement more or less disbanded, having concluded that its members had finally encountered ‘something worse than war’. They could not oppose a war against Hitler. I don’t think I could have, either.

God bless you amoeba, have a great day !!

Amblessed, I thank you for your response. I have a great deal of respect for you, which is why I asked for sources. Not because I doubt your accurate portrayal of the quote, but to explore the ‘bona fides’ of the source. Ideologically, we are probably in opposing camps. (I’m blue collar, moderate to liberal, and a (gasp) atheist.) But I enjoy hearing and considering what all reasonable people have to say. I hope that we will be able to end this non-sense that Iraq has become. I think that Bush/Cheney made a terrible choice when they decided to invade, and decided to do it on the cheap. But we are now in it and exit strategies from the present administration have yet to work. A different administration with different views is going to be needed, I just don’t know if ANYTHING will solve the violence there. Or if anyone will have a solution. But I think that McCain is going to be following in the present administration’s footsteps, and will also flail and fail. I believe that it’s time for the Democrats to step up. (Yes, I’m a Democrat.) Sen. Clinton has a great deal of experience, but a lot of baggage due to the almost rabid feelings Republicans have toward her husband. Obama has less experience, but probably can work with both sides of the aisle much more effectively. Who do I prefer? I honestly am not sure. But I am not fearful of some type of ‘soft on radicals’ approach of any of the candidates.

amblessed:

God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah not Christians. In the Bible God tells Christians not to seek revenge and that vengence is his. I don’t believe Christians can use God’s violence to justify their own. Jesus is the example for Christians to follow not God. The only example I can think of where Jesus showed any violence is when he threw the money changers out of the temple.

I never said that Christianity was better or worse than Islam. I’m an outsider to both though I have to admit that I know about the former than the later. Jesus’ message of peace and love to me is the most admirable facet of Christianity. I don’t think that I’m attacking Christianity here but rather I’m trying to reconcile the teachings of Jesus with the actions of self-proclaimed Christians. There are things I disagree with in the Bible and in Christian teachings but none of those are germane here. I’m not comparing Christianity to Islam. If Christianity is to stand on its own you should not have to worry about what standard the Qur’an represents.

My personal view is that the only justification for violence is self-defense. A pacifist doesn’t believe that even self-defense is a justification for violence. While I admire the pacifists’ strength of convictions it is not a position I hold myself. My reading of the Sermon on the Mount is that it is the highest standard for Christians, effectively unattainable. Christians should strive for this though.

I’ll provide the source this time but this is the last - others on here are NEVER asked ‘source’ - I realize because I’m a Christian and a Conservative (not Republican) there is much bias against and I must jump through extra hoops - that’s fine with me because those haters here aren’t hard to spot - just read the responses and language used, with impunity - So,To all: if you choose not to trust my information just ignore the question please or look it up yourself and you’ll find it - I don’t just ‘make it up’ - Last time: 2nd paragraph: SOURCE: http://www.townhall.com/columnists/SandyRios/2008/05/22/why_im_afraid_of_a_president_barack_obama QUOTING: Sandy Rios

Not directed at you bimjob - a general statement - hope you’ll answer the question, have a good night !!

j-man, Ronald Reagan is definitely a hero of mine - a Great LEADER, a Great PERSON - very much missed !!