Is abortion murder?

“According to that kind of thinking we can all have our own set of morals and it dosen’t matter what anyone else thinks. We can just do as we please because you are saying that there is no absolute.”

Morals are defined by indviduals. Laws are defined by society. The point of the comment was not to say that we can do whatever we want. Just because you, or your church says something is immoral, does not make it so. It is the collective morals of society that define our laws. Or at least that is how it should be. It should not be defined by some narrow-minded view of a few zealots.

“Where do you think laws and morals come from. They come from the Bible. God has laws concerning morality. How about the 10 commandments to start with. They aren’t the 10 suggestions by the way. Let’s see Thou shalt not steal, Thou shall not commit adultry, Thou stalt not kill, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor, Honor thy father and thy mother. Then you have the 656 Levitical laws and many of these are about morality. You don’t want to believe in God but He is the one who established the Law. According to your statement there is no right or wrong because even if there is a law made and I disagree according to my moral standards I can choose to ignore it.”

Laws against murder and theft have been around longer than beilief in your god. Some things are self-evident, and we need no supernatural force to explain it to us. As far as things like adultry, why can’t you people mind your own freakin business. You can choose to ignore my personal moral beliefs all you want. I couldn’t care less. But you can not violate my rights or break the law.

“How stupid can you be to even suggest that morality is in the eye of the beholder.”

How stupid do you have to be to not see the difference between morals and civil laws.

well, this is a tough question, but I believe that if the child isn’t going to have a happy life, why put it through that misery?

Yes - btw I did answer rationally earlier. Then I saw those vidioes. People are making it into a debate about whether or not abortion should be legal rather than the real question, which was will you go to hell for doing it. I may be half rational, but as I am human too I am entitled to a purely emotional response as well.

You cannot tell me that looking at those pictures does not make you cringe. These “embrios” have eyes, ears, fingers, toes…

Coming from someone who as a teenager had a child out of wedlock, who is now a happy healthy seven year old that I could not imagine my life without, as well as someone who may never have any more children, I am in a perfect position to answer this question.

I feel it is wrong. I can’t imagine someone doing that to another human being.

I also have experience with those who gave up their children for adoption (this from being in a group home- also as a teenager) I can tell you, it is much better to choose the option of adoption. I have a friend who gave up her daughter in open adoption. She gets to visit her, recieve pictures, and get letters from her now six year old daughter. Instead of taking the “choice” she gave her child life, and a family that could provide for her, as well as giving that couple a chance to know the love of a child.

I feel that abstinance is the best policy, but if you cannot be abstinate, then choose to prevent pregnancy before it happens. I even go so far as to believe in the Date Rape drug as it prevents pregnancy rather than murdering, and if conception has already occured then it does not harm the baby. It also has no long lasting effects, either physically or mentally to the woman whom it is administered to.

Sorry I ranted earlier, but no one who can feel can see those images and not get angry.

“Is abortion murder?”

  a·bor·tion (?-bôr’sh?n) n.

1. a. Termination of pregnancy and expulsion of an embryo or of a fetus that is incapable of survival. b. Any of various procedures that result in such termination and expulsion. Also called induced abortion.

2. The premature expulsion of a nonviable fetus from the uterus; a miscarriage.

  mur·der (mûr’d?r) n.

1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

  No, abortion, in general, is not considered murder. An exception might be for “partial-birth abortion” where a viable fetus is partially delivered then killed before complete delivery.

  My opinion is from http://www.asearchfortruth.com/old

  I’ve No surprises

1.        Though sex is the method normally utilized to bring progeny into being, such result may not be desired by the entities. 

2.        The entities may use various methods of birth control to prevent progeny. 

3.        Methods that prevent conception or that prevent development within the early days after conception are necessary for the well-being of the entities. 

4.        A decision for abortion at any later stage, for whatever reason, must rest singularly with the pregnant entity. 

5.        Prior to the time of normal delivery the entity should not be held accountable to others for her actions in relation to her own body or its contents. 

6.        If the entity's decision is not justifiable, it is still her decision and only she will be held responsible for it in the subsequent analyzation period of her being.

Actually if you look at the figures 100k were illigally aborted per year before it was legalized. This amount more than quadrupled the year abortion became legal. Now it is roughly 1.3 Billion.

I agree that part of this is related to poverty (Not all, but part). I also agree for the need for proper sex ed. I went to sex-ed myself however, and still wound up being duped into doing something stupid. A little thing called alchohol, administered by someone much older than I, and he took advantage of me. At seventeen I gave birth to my son. I can tell you it was hard, but it was not impossible.

The thing is, it’s not only the actual abortion factor that must be worked on. People need to understand how many diseases are out there that can be sexually transmitted as well. There is also a huge problem with teenagers being taken advantage of by adults.

The biggest point I make is that there are other methods besides abortion for birth control. Abstinence before marriage, the pill, condoms, the diaphrahm, shots, spermicide, even the morning after pill. What I mean to say is that abortion may not have been legalized in the first place if we had all of these methods to begin with. Seriously, if people cannot take responsibilty for their actions Before it turns into pregnancy, then it is their responsiblity do handle the consequences. Not by killing, but by raising that child or giving the baby to another to raise.

No I’m not saying that people should be forced to use birth control, but don’t you think if abortion were made illegal and all these birth control methods which are free in most places are available, I think people would take that responsibilty before it happened.

INADVETANTLY!!!

Not intentionally.

And on a non religious note, most bercause this subject raises my Ire. I think that anyone who commits abortion is a murder. Have any of you at all watchexd the site that was put up earlier? That is reason enough. Seeing those poor innocents that were torn apart inside the womb, where they were put to be nurtured. It is barbaric. And the fact that some of those FETUSES/ babies are used for MAKEUP!!! It is so disgusting it makes me want to puke. 1.3 MILLION babies are killed every year because abortion has become another form of birth control.

As for abstinance. It is the only form of birth control I no with NO failure rate. And if you are Active you should take precautions BEFORE this happens.

I’m sorry if anyone sees this as high and mighty, but after five minutes of watching what I watched earlier, and then the Silent Scream, which you can pull up on you tube and see them murdering a baby, well my ire is up. I think its awful, horrible.

Hundreds of girls are forced to do this by their parents. Others are led to believe that there wil;l be no emotiona consequenses.

I mean come on. Isn’t anyone else as angry about this as I am?

amblessed, the reference eleni gave is to Exodus

“Exodus 21:22 When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman’s husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine. 23 If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”

Note that the penalty for inadvertently causing a miscarriage is a simple fine, which is the same as for inadvertently destroying any other property.

The penalty for inadvertently causing death was expulsion from the community.

So clearly the writer considers a fetus to be property rather than a person.

A woman murdered during pregnany is not considered a double murder. Some states have fetal homicide laws that can be used to have an additional charge to the perpatrator who murders a pregnant woman. But it is not called a double murder, and the fetus is not treated as a person. This is a relatively new concept and is being used by some pro-life people as proof that a fetus is the same as a living human being. It is not. If a pregnant woman was assaulted which resulted in her losing her baby, but not her life, the charge would be assault, not murder.

I agree with you that some aborted babies could have become great people. But many will be born into poverty and may even go on to be criminals and even murderers. While I believe that abortion is wrong, and devalues life, it can’t be eliminated in a vacumm. If you don’t deal with the billions of needy children that would result, nor deal with the need for proper sex ed so unwanted pregnancy is reduced, nor deal with the reality of the pverty that fosters unwanted pregnancy, you are never going to convince people it is wrong.

You can’t say that a fetus is exactly the same as a born living breathing human being. As you say, a fetus represents pontential for a human being. That is not the same as a an actual born living person.

And even if abortion is outlawed, there will still be millions who break the law and get them anyway. Again, the best method to eliminate, or at least reduce them, is to educate people properly.

I didn’t believe in abortions until I had one…

I was with my boyfriend for four years. I loved him so much but I was going through a weird time. I was able to be pulled away by another older guy who talked about certain things and for some reason I decided to see him. I went on a break with my boyfriend and had sex with the other guy for a few months. I ended up deciding that I didn’t want to be with him and at Christmas I got back with my boyfriend and never wanted to let him go. After new years I was feeling weird and my period was late. I had a test and I was pregnant. I told my boyfriend and we knew that it wasn’t his based on the time frame. he said that he would support me and be with me regardless of what I decided. I couldn’t imagine how much it was hurting him. I had the abortion because I didn’t want to hurt him anymore than I already did.

This was a few years ago and we are still together. I always think about my could have been baby when my due date comes around. I knew that I did the right thing for me, my boyfriend and my future children! I ended up getting my degree and a great job and I wouldn’t have if I had the baby.

The decision is different for everyone. We need to make the choice for ourselves.

Although, I will say now and for the past few years I want a baby more than ever. Being pregnant does something to women - assuming they want children. I can’t wait to try to have children and be a mom.

I don’t believe got spites people who make decisions for the right reasons…

Ok, I have a few things to say on this subject. I happen to be a liberal who is pro-life. But I am sickened by some of the comments made by the anti-abortion crowd in here. You religious nuts are never going to convince non-religious people that abortion is wrong because god said so. It is meaningless drivel to most people. One has to leave that crap out of it. It is about respect for life, and determining when the life and rights of a fetus are separate and apart from the mothers. I don’t believe that an abortion happening at 2 weeks is the same as one happening at 12 weeks. How many of you who rail against abortion are as upset about capital punishment? Or pre-emptive attacks against countries that never did anything to us. To me these are far worse. To take a living breathing human being and allow the state to murder them is much worse that ending a pregnancy. The problem with the right-wing religious zealots is they are inconsistant. Unborn fetuses should be protected, but not living death-row inmates, or victims of gun violence, or victims of unwarrented invasions, or those too poor to have healthcare.

When you religious nuts start showing you are pro-life for all life, then I might pay attention. But you are all one-trick ponies…

Are any of you able to make an argument against abortion with out bringing god or religion into it? It should be about the sanctity of life, any life. No one has the right to take another life. NO ONE. That includes an unborn child or a convicted criminal. Do not point to the bible as a reference, it is full contridiction. Especially the OT. Everyone points to an “eye for an eye”, but also states god as saying “vengence is mine”. Chriat talked of forgiveness and mercy. He did not condone the death penalty, and most religions also don’t.

Look, I am against abortion too, but unless you are consistant in your support for life, ALL LIFE, it will ring hollow to most people.

And the best way to reduce abortion is to reduce unwanted pregnancy. I don’t see any religions doing anything about that except by preaching abstinance. That is like telling a person to stop eating. If there wasn’t so much opposition from right-wing relgious zealots, we would be providing proper sex ed in schools, and making sure kids understand what they need if they are going to have sex. That would have the greatest impact on reducing abortion. But most of you are only concerned about ending abortion only. If you can’t end it, wouldn’t it at least make sense to support measure’s that reduce it? Have any of ever though of that?

But I guess logical thinkning is expecting too much from people who believe in the supernatural.

Legally, abortion is not murder.

Ethicaly, I’m willing to say that there is nothing unethical about destroying an egg and a sperm just prior to fertilization. I’m also willing to say that it is unethical to destroy a 5 year old. Somewhere in between those extremes, is a gray area where it isn’t clear.

Since no-one remembers their own birth, I think it’s reasonable to conclude that even new borns are not conscious, and so there is no ethical problem with destroying an unloved fetus.

Morally, well, that depends on whatever your church tells you. Morals are different from laws or even ethics. Traditionally in Judaism, ‘ensoulment’ happend on day 40, so it would be moral to have an abortion before that. Of course most of us would agree that’s just rediculous, so conservative Christians move it back to the even more absurd moment of conception.

There is one part that this discussion hasn’t touched on. The mother. Ask a woman who has had either a partial birth or conventional abortion how she feels afterwards. Not only does the woman suffer the physical, but also the emotional and spiritual loss associated with this tradgey. Many women have said to the counselors afterwards that they feel as if the life was taken out of them. And if this practice is just the removal of unwanted tissue, like removing dust off your feet, then why have counselors and support groups for the women afterwards? If it’s not a baby, I mean. If the medical communtiy and joe public weren’t so concerned about political rhetoric they might find that the term partial birth is actually an oxymoron. If the “fetus” isn’t a life or a person, then why call it a partial birth?? Also, there is the question about whether or not an abortion is necessary for rape victims or for people that have been given information about the future life there unborn child will have if it is unfavorable for severely handicapped/diseased reasons etc. Genetic screening and convenience seem to be heading us in a very downward slope. Trying to prevent a life or killing a baby because it doesn’t equate with your lifestyle or it’s unwelcomed, is just wrong. So. Is abortion murder? The question asked in this section was searching for an answer that is “religious”. Well mine is, “murder begins in the heart.” A new life is begun at conception. Whether the baby can exist on its own outside the mother or hears and reacts inside the womb is immaterial. When a chemist takes a series of complex protiens and chemicals and mixes them, does it not become something new? Regardless if it is finished in its process to the final product.

tori, ok, I understand that you think an embryo should be protected because it has the POTENTIAL to become a life. Notice that even in your own choice of words, you revealed the fact that you do not actually consider a fertilized egg a person.

We seem to agree on that much, but even though you inadvertently admitted it is not a person, you still think it deserves legal protection. I have to say, I’m convinced that position is rooted in religious beliefs rather than rationally analyzing the situation.

…and there’s the problem. If everyone forms their positions based on spurious reasoning, we will forever have two extremes - one that says a fertilized egg deserves the same legal protection as a 5 year old, vs the other that says that a woman should have the right to abortion until the moment the umbilical chord is cut. Neither position is even remotely reasoned.

College Quarterback Almost Aborted College football seems to be everywhere you look this time of year. My wife and I have been following the University of Florida the last couple years because the starting quarterback is the brother of a good friend of my wife (kinda confusing). Tim Tebow became the first sophomore in the history of the NCAA to win the coveted Heisman Trophy as the best football player in the nation. Surprisingly, doctors recommended to his parents in 1987 that he should be aborted.

Click here to read the article.

There are dozens of reasons why I think abortion should be stopped, this is just one more reason. Let God make the decisions, not us.

Jimahl, I understand what you are trying to say. I believe though that if a man or woman wants to murder someone then let them die. A baby being aborted is an innocent child who has done nothing to deserve a terrible death. A man or woman on death row for murdering someone deserves death. The baby being aborted is sucked and torn apart and the death row inmates get a shot that kills them. Death Row Inmates have it far to easy as I see it. People are going to come up with all kinds of reasons that it is ok to abort a baby at any gestation but it is murder no matter what they say. You are killing a child. An innocent. I do understand some of your other arguments. I am not trying to cause a fight. There is just a big difference between someone who deserves death and someone who doesnt.

Toadaly beat me to the punch with the Biblical reference but I’m very glad that you asked for evidence, Amblessed. I should be questioned just as strongly as anyone else.

That said, the verses mentioned are not the only one that should let you know that both the born and unborn are nothing more than property to the Old Testament God.

God regularly orders the slaughter of pagan infants and children during his preemptive strikes for land and power. This includes pregnant women, nursing women, newborns, and toddlers.

In other verses, the Bible states that children should be killed either for 1) their own sins or 2) the sins of their fathers. They are not considered individuals in their own right but rather as a piece of property that can bring shame to the head of the household and can be discarded at leisure.

I understand that abortion is not pleasant and may tug at everyone’s heartstrings. However, please don’t use the Bible to justify your position. The Old Testament God is a brutal monster who doesn’t care for women or children. No matter how you want to spin it, the Bible is clear about what God has commanded and, since He doesn’t change, He must still feel the same way.

Interesting, you would say that “morality is in the eye of the beholder” according to what you say if I believe you are an immoral person and I thought it was a moral act to end your life then it dosen’t matter what anyone thinks. According to that kind of thinking we can all have our own set of morals and it dosen’t matter what anyone else thinks. We can just do as we please because you are saying that there is no absolute.

Where do you think laws and morals come from. They come from the Bible. God has laws concerning morality. How about the 10 commandments to start with. They aren’t the 10 suggestions by the way. Let’s see Thou shalt not steal, Thou shall not commit adultry, Thou stalt not kill, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor, Honor thy father and thy mother. Then you have the 656 Levitical laws and many of these are about morality. You don’t want to believe in God but He is the one who established the Law. According to your statement there is no right or wrong because even if there is a law made and I disagree according to my moral standards I can choose to ignore it.

How stupid can you be to even suggest that morality is in the eye of the beholder.

First of all: people who believe in Hell, deserve it. Secondly, the issue of abortion is something we can all share different opinions on. Personally, I believe that abortion is a choice available to any woman, whether you consider it murder or not. People who are trying to ban abortion are ignorant; they will only eliminate the safe way of getting one, you can still ride roller coasters, drink, fall down stairs, etc. If we have the technology to give someone that chance, then who are you to take it away from someone? If you don’t agree with abortion, DON’T GET ONE. But as far as wasting your time trying to ban abortion for someone else, mind your own damn business.

But not everyone lives their lives with god. Does that make them less able to see that human life has value? My point is, if yuor only argument is that god says its wrong, you will never convince people.

I agree that there are many good and talented people who came from tragic circumstance who in other situations might have been aborted. That is one of the reasons I am against it. Because every life is precious and should be nurtured to be the best they can be. But it has to be self evident to people, like it is to me. But constantly framing into a religious issue only diminishes your ability to change it.

I don’t think so.

1 As long as the baby is not a fetus yet, and hasn’t developed vital organs like the Brain, Heart, Lungs, etc. Basically when the baby’s just a seed really.

2. If the baby’s hurt, than it’s not wrong either. Like it has a Life-Threatening permanent injury/illness.

You aren’t worth wasting words on. As a matter of fact Jesus told his disciples if you aren’t recieved then shake the dust off your feet and move on. The bible says that God is not slack concerning his promise as some men count slackness, but is long suffering to usward not willing that any should perish but that all would come to repentance. I have spoken more truth to you than you have ever know or understood. So from this point on I will no longer engage conversation with you because you won’t receive it. One thing I do know is that I have done what is required of me and that is to tell you what God says concerning salvation and I have done that more than once with you. You my friend will answer to God and you will be without excuse.

killing a fish is also ending a life.

Catholic church view:

Pope Benedict XVI, in a speech to European politicians in 2006, offered some instruction for the Catholic conscience: “As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, the principal focus of her interventions in the public arena is the protection and promotion of the dignity of the person, and she is thereby consciously drawing particular attention to principles which are not negotiable. Among these the following emerge clearly today: the protection of life in all its stages… recognition and promotion of the natural structure of the family… and the protection of the rights of parents to educate their children.”

That “not negotiable” is not to be missed.

I strongly beleive abortions are very wrong because whether it was born or not,it’s still a baby’s life you’d be taking away.under any circumstances.

erin182 asked: why is god in heaven for allowing his own son who was an actual life to die in such a horrible way? - here why: God being pure cannot even look upon sin - man, even in his very best state is a sinner - on judgement day, either: your sins are covered by the blood-shed sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross (salvation and only salvation - being a nice person isn’t good enough - even at our very best, we are but filthy rags), and remembered no more or they are not (your sins are not covered) - where God’s great love comes into play is, He provided a WAY (Jesus) for us not to perish and live in Heaven with Him (He certainly didn’t have to do this but did because He loved us so) - if you read carefully John 3:16, this is exactly what it says - each person will either accept or reject, you must decide for yourself and yes, it’s so important, it has eternal consequences - He Loves you and wants you to accept God’s free gift to man - Jesus - He was the sacrifice that took our place…Hope this helps !!

eleni, could you please give me the verses where this is found: ‘The Old Testament is very clear that a fetus (or the ‘unborn’ if you will) is nothing but a man’s property. The penalty for aborting is a simple fine based on an agreement between the man and the judges.’, thanks !!

Psalm 139:13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.

For anyone out there who questions abortion, please take the time to ponder what I am going to say.

Look at your sisters and brothers. What would your life have been like without them? Look at your parents. You would have had no life without them. Look at your best friend. Would you miss the games you played? Look at your neighbor. Would life have been the same? All people see are numbers, but as they watch them grow more than a million babies lose a life they’ll never know. You point to a graph and chart, never seeing the silent scream You have a life to live, and act like their’s was a dream. Many women are led unknowing, unsure of what they do. Would you still think the same if the unborn child was you? Each year thousands are tortured, all before their first breath, You see a convienience, I see brutal death. The claims are made that this innocents are not truly alive I claim this one may have changed us all, if allowed to survive. You think that we can pick and choose, which one will have life. I think that these are innocents, and that they should have rights. No argument will sway me, for there is no cause to harm Babies who have never felt, the love in a mother’s arms.

This is one of the most controversal issues of today.

A lot of people are going to either base their answers on:

1. Religion
2. Science
3. Morals
4. Law

Now, you ask if abortion is murder. What is murder? It’s to kill someone intentionally. Abortion is debated over whether the “embryo” is considered a child or not.

In my opinion, life begins at conception. Once the egg is fertilized, it is a one celled, growing baby. Abortion ends your pregnancy. So, you’re really terminating the chance for your child to grow.

People want to see the embryo as just a lump of tissue. That perspective makes abortion legal. Another, is because you can’t deny the mother the right to choose. How could she oppose the convenience of opportunity? It’s unconstitutional to do so. But the problem is, she over looks the child’s right. Everyone has the right to live.

Funny thing is, the people who claim to be “Pro Choice” weren’t aborted, now were they? Isn’t it unfair that the baby has no say what so ever?

Despite my religion and look on science, I strongly beleive that abortion is just used as as a convenient excuse.

And as for the whole “Hell” situation. Who are we to judge. I’m assuming if you believe in Hell, then you believe in God’s punishment. So, how can we act on his decisions?

Try to remember though, that everything has a consequence. That level of integrity varies though.

Too bad so many catholics, and christians in general are very selective in their right to life views. The life a fetus, or a brain dead woman is sacred. But the life of an innocent in war, or death rown inmate, or a victim of gun violence is justifiable.

At least the catholic church is consistant on life. I can do with out the homophobia though.

Amen Eleni. I am not not necessarily pro-choice, but I am also not pro-life in the sense that right wing religious zealots think either. But feelings do not come from any kind of religous teachings. Most religion is contridictory and hypocritical.

In my opinion yes Abortion is Murder. I do not believe in it. If you were mature enough to go and get pregnant then you need to grow up and face the challenges of becoming a parent.

Good luck!!

I think abortion is a sin because GOD gives you this unborn child to have and to take care of after it is born and here you go and KILL IT. that’s taking a life to me and you are taking it from that baby.that baby deserves to live just as much as me and you!!! If you don’t want that baby, give it up for adoption

You might not go to hell per say, but it is wrong. I am Pro-Choice. THE BABY’S CHOICE. No one wants to die, no matter how young. Babies have a soul from the moment they are formed. So if you have an abortion, you kill a soul. Worst comes to worst, have it and give in up to adoption. Just don’t kill it.

Abortion is definitely murder and sex should not be engaged in for any reason other than procreation. God intended sex for procreation only. If any person has sex with anyone other than a spouse, and for any reason other than procreation, he or she will go to Hell because it is in defiance of God!

No it is not the religious section, it is the religion section. One does not need to be religious in order to comment, nor do they need to be a believer.

Morals are in the eye of the beholder. I happen to think abortion is wrong as a rule, and I can make the argument without bringing religion into it. Why cant you?

no lol abortion wont send you to hell, if it did then using condoms would send you to hell because basically they are the same thing; something you do to stop urself having a baby.

P.S religion? wtf?! get educated!

I’m pregnant, and I think that it is, but then again I’m only 14 and don’t know if I can handel a child atm when I can brealy handle myself. I am against abortions but I’m so confused about what I’m going to do without 1. so If the cercimstances show that its the only way then it’s ok, I guess.

Tori, you say there is a rational nonreligious reason for providing legal protection to a fertilized egg, but I’m not seeing what that reason is.

The courts consistently rule that abortion is not murder. Even in the Old Testament, there was recognition that it was not murder, because the punishment for causing a miscarriage was a fine rather than death.

This is the religious section and the question specifically is a religious question, or God wouldn’t be involved.

Moral Issue thats whats wrong these days there are no moral issues it turns into a free for all. and everyone has an opinion. to do what is right in their own eyes. whether it leads to death or not.

Abortion is definitely murder. Is it not true that a fetus is a living being? An abortion is basically killing the fetus before it is ever born. Thus taking away the baby’s life before it ever gets to open it’s eyes for the first time.

tori, of course there are people as angry as you. Some even go as far as to kill doctors who perform the procedure.

If possible, answer the following question rationally rather than emotionally or from a religious perspective:

Is there any compelling nonreligious reason to provide legal protection to a fertilized egg?

Murder is the killing of a person. As long as it is dependant on the mother for survival (I.e. couldnt survive outside her body) then it isnt a person. It’s simply part of the mother. The point that this changes then it is a different issue.

AGAIN you don’t go to Hell for what you do but what you don’t do. we all sin one sin is not bigger than the other. SIN IS SIN. accept His sacrifice repent and thats it.

In the bible it states that John lept in his mothers whom, when Mary came to Elizabeth. He knew it was the messiah. the condemnation here is getting steep. but your argument about life across the board is lame and they are totally different subjects.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I will not bash you jimahl for yours so I would appreciate it if you didn’t bash others for theirs. This is the last time I will post anything under this question so God Bless!

1.If you have had one before you became saved and ask god to forgive you he will 2.If you do it while you know its rong in gods eyes you have a really good chance of going to hell

no one knows for sure.

tb, you are in a circumstance where you really need to think about why you are against it. Have you ever given any thought to that?

The Bible say in the Book of Proverbs that “there is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death”. Proverbs 14:12

But it’s not what send you to hell though. Anyone who repents and accepts Jesus as their Saviour and Lord will go to heaven, whatever their past.

Just so you know - I am not a right wing religious zealoy either. BUT I am pro-life, and arguing with me will do nothing to change my opinion, so please no more name calling

Oh yeah eleni I forgot about that, of course the only you could get pregnant is if you forget, or do not use some form of prevention. I still see nothing wrong with abortion though.

The Old Testament is very clear that a fetus (or the “unborn” if you will) is nothing but a man’s property. The penalty for aborting is a simple fine based on an agreement between the man and the judges.

…I’m curious what “accept his sacrifice” means in regard to a sacrifice that obvioulsy wasn’t made to me. Wouldn’t God be the one to either accept or reject this human sacrifice you speak of?

yes my sis had a abortions 3 times…SAD TO SAY SHE WANT BE GOING TO HEAVEN SORRY BUT …yes it is murder to a little child that derserves his/her life…

No not nessecarly if you ask God to forgive you before you die then no you will not go to hell. I believe that to God fetus is still a person.

Abortion is not murder. God didn’t give anyone an unborn child, and what if that person was raped, are you telling me God plans rape? it was started when a sperm cell met an egg cell, God does not create anyone, DNA genetic material does.

Absolutely not.

Yes, abortion is murder.

The term baby… was changed to fetus… to reduce guilt.

All sin has to be repented of, and turned from.

Forgiveness is available, but, will never remove the consequences.

The fact will always remain that this act was committed.

It is forever etched on the mind of the one doing this.

Forgiving oneself is very hard.

Memory lasts for a lifetime.

The aftermath is never talked about, at the onset.

The most protected place on earth, should be the mothers womb.

New technology exists to show the babies eyebrows, yawns, etc.

In Gods eyes, a baby precious.

The reason an embio should be protected is because it has the potential to become a life. So many do not see it this way. But if people go to jail for harming a pregnant woman’s baby, why should any other pregnant womans baby have those same rights. If a woman is murdered during pregnancy it is considered double homicide. So it stands to reason that the person commiting those murders is charged for the death of an “embrio”. Therefore if that embrio is protected by law, so should every other.

The fact remains that billions of children that could have become your best friend, an aunt or uncle, a scientist, a president, have been wiped off the face of the earth.

* “we can all have our own set of morals and it dosen’t matter what anyone else thinks. We can just do as we please because you are saying that there is no absolute.”

We can indeed all have our own morals, but we still have a legal system representing the commonality of such systems, and others will still hold us accountable for our actions. As a result, you can’t just do whatever you want.

If we weren’t social animals, this wouldn’t work, and there would be no such thing as civilized society. Instinct and conditioning are our common ground, not arbitrary rules from ancient books.

If your idea of ‘absolute morals’ were true, then there would be universal moral codes across all thriving societies at all time, and obviously that isn’t the case.

This is coming from a woman who wants more children but will probably never have any. I find abortion sickening. I feel it is murder in the most vile way!!! I can’t force anyone else to have my opinion, but in just my support group alone there are thousands upon thousands of people like me!!! It is unethical, morally wrong, evil, vile, hateful, putred, and in my opinion, and God’s too, it is a sin.

That being said I also need to remind you that we have a loving God, who is able to forgive if you turn to him in repentance of your sins and accept the gift He gave you. Jesus is THE way.

Also, if you have a baby in a bad situation, such as poor or bad relationship. I think it is worse to bring a child into that. Most of us are not strong enough to carry our babies to term and then give them up. That was my problem. I didn’t want to have an abortion but I couldn;t bond with my unborn child for 9 months and then give him or her away! I know its selfish.

I don’t think anyone should have more than one abortion. if you are dumb enough to get pregnant twice by accident than you should raise the baby. I believe that I truly felt sorry about it and didn’t want to have to do it but my situation was a horrible fate in my eyes.

I want to give my children the best of the best when the time is right!

One of the points is we don’t live our lives without God, so its impossible to answer without him. Jesus didnt’ come to abolish the old testament but to fulfill it. Do you know how many people famous ones were born because of a tragic circumstance that todays society would have aborted the line is pretty long. each person has their opinion and it has gone far from the first question. this has turned into a debate.

You don’t go to hell for what you do, but what you don’t do. so truly accepting the sacrifice Jesus made for you and live it out and everything you’ve done including abortion will be forgiven.

Eleni, That was very well put. I agree whole heartedly. The problem happens when the knuckle-draggers try to invect religion and god into the issue. They don’t understand that they are not going to sway people by saying god says its wrong, and offering no solution to unwanted pregnancy other than abstinance. Abortion as a means of birth control is repugnant to me. But I can make my arguments about it without bringing religion into it.

in 3 words “abortion is murder” being able to give birth is a gift from god without women giving life who will do it not men. I mean unless you dont want it but there is alternatives rather than abortion think it over. dont listen to those peopl who say its ok, but it is your choice but those peopl either dont have children or dont want any .there are families who want children but the women is unable to so she has to turn to another option you can be that option but I garentee once you do have a child you wont want to let her go.

Well then every male a female fails to have sex with is a potential life. Lots of people would have been born just they aren’t conceived.

People shouldn’t be against abortion because you never know the individuals situation. People exaggerate abortion, I don’t understand adding guilt to people who have it performed. I really see nothing wrong with it, it’s just a fetus, it’s brain is not functional. It can’t feel pain.

With the exception of the irrational religious, it’s clear to me that most Americans have a problem with abortion when it’s used as a method of birth control to evade responsibility. Only the insane among us would deny an abortion in the case of the woman’s life or in cases or rape/incest.

That being said, it seems to me that the solution is to increase sex education and promote contraception. These two things will drastically reduce the call for abortion as birth control. That’s why I proudly consider myself pro-contraception.

you wont go to hell, ignore the religion when it comes to this, as long as you have one before three months, lemmalism3568 said, its just a little seed at that point, you wont go to hell, if people say you will then why is god in heaven for allowing his own son who was an actual life to die in such a horrible way?

I dont think you will go to hell. But dont believe the people who say that before 3 months along it is not a baby. When the sperm meets the egg it is a baby in my book. Abortion is cruel. The chop or suck the baby up and then suck it out. And if the child is further along then they stick a needle through the stomach and into the childs heart and inject it with something that kills it. And then you have to have it. So dont have an abortion please!!! If you dont want it give it to someone who does!

I dont think it is murder because there are situations where the mother has to get one like if the pregnancy is harmful to the mother or if the baby is sick and the mother chooses that she will not be able to take care of that baby. I think that is okay I just dont think it is okay if you use it as birth control. like I think abortion is okay if there is a medical reason for having the abortion.

torikene, I never once personally called you a zealot. I wasn’t evem responding to you. I do not engage in name-calling on message boards. I was talking in general about the most extreme of the right wing christian sect. What opinion do you think I am trying to change? If you have read my posts, you would see I am also pro-life. But my views differ from the zealots. That is all. And from your previous post I see that you are not a zealot who thinks that abstinence is the only answer.

Not arguing, just debating. Sorry if you thought I was.

Not necessarily .. there ARE circumstances when you absolutely HAVE to take that route (such as the pregnancy being life threatning to you OR your child) Also, and I know MANY people are going to probably debate me on this one, but before 3 months your unborn child is considered an “embryo” & not yet a “fetus” (which is when they are considered a baby) so if you have an abortion before 3 months, it’s not necessarily considered “killing your baby”.. Though I PERSONALLY do not believe in abortions, && would never put myself down that road, regardless of the risks to myself, I still just don’t consider it “murder”

It is a child not matter what it looks like or what it is called!!! Abortion is terrible and if people don’t want a child then don’t have sex or use protection. It is just an easy way out for most people. ABORTION IS MURDER! It does not matter how far along a mother is. People just say that to make themselves feel better about it.

Abortion is murder and a baby is a baby at the time of conception if you go by God’s view, if you go by man’s and science it isn’t until they can hear the heart beat or until it is born. thats why they allow partial birth abortions. a person who does this is wrong but if they are truly repentent there is nothing God can’t forgive. and again we are not the judge of who goes to heaven.

Well justsearching, I will miss the banter. It was entertaining at times. I will receive any conversation that interests me, as long as it remains fairly civil. And if I have a differeing opinion, I will say so. It is a public message board.

The funny thing is, we agree on abortion more than we disagree. We just come from it at different ends.

I think we have to trust women to make these decisions with their doctors’ advice. I don’t consider the abortion of a clump of cells to be a moral issue. Like toadaly, however, I don’t think aborting a fetus at an advanced stage purely for selfish reasons to be ok. I’m hoping that the reasonable among us can find some common ground for productive discussion one day rather than this senseless bickering.

* “You aren’t worth wasting words on. As a matter of fact Jesus told his disciples if you aren’t recieved then shake the dust off your feet and move on…”

When Jesus said to ‘shake the dust’, did he say to first lash out at them and lecture them on how worthless they are and tell them all the wonderful all-loving plans for endless torture God has in store for them? I guess I don’t recall reading that part.

An unborn baby is a life - lots of answers on this subject here:

http://www.funadvice.com/search?q=abortion

no one did that todaly. You are way off base. I just quoted scripture. That is not lashing out.

Yes that is why I beleive that we should not kill any life.

No, there is no such thing as hell… so you will not go there. It’s as simple as that :)

the question was are you able to argue without bringing god into it, I answered that question only. follow the story line,

I really don’t think you’ll go to hell for an abortion and it is definitely NOT murder.

Abortion is definitly murder! You’d be taking away a baby’s life. It’s definitly murder and you would definitly go to hell.

not being rude to anybody but they make some makeup’s out of abortion baby’s

abortion is very bad look in the BIBLE for more information!:)

I appreciate your honesty I hope you have a great week

yesss… Why even ask.

yes, you are ending a life.

you sure will because your killing someone.

no abortion is not murder.

absolutely yes…

YES!!!