Does this reflect pride or distain ?

I understand that the symbols of patriotism are very important for some people. Likewise, other people (such as myself) prefer less visibile expressions of patriotism. I think the important point here is that, as a free people, Americans can choose whether do express their patriotism with a lapel pin or not without having the government force them on the issue.

Some people wave their flag to show that they are free. Others do not wave a flag demonstrating that they are equally free.

All I know is that my forefathers did not bleed and die for this country so that I could wear a flag on my shirt. Anyone who tries to judge my patriotism by my lack of a flag is going to get a d*mn good chewing out.

Not being an American myself I would find it hard to endorse a person who didn’t walk the talk. People need to look at the evidence or fruit if you will. When a person claims to be very patriotic yet denies the very emblems that represent this patriotism I find something is afoot. If a person wants to be known as a patriot let them do it in the public arena such as show support to the troops and fallen soldiers and their families. Help the needy and homeless. Let them get their hands dirty with the people they claim to represent and are hoping would support them in return. The mark of a true patriot is the one who does it without the fanfare and adulation of onlookers and doesn’t expect anything in return. Is every American who doesn’t wear a pin or fly a flag unpatriotic? I wouldn’t think so, but high profile people like Obama should, in my opinion, wear such a pin and to encourage others to do the same.

Do you mean disdain?

Obama said this in response to the question:

“The truth is that right after 9/11 I had a pin,” Obama said. “Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we’re talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.

“I decided I won’t wear that pin on my chest,” he said in the interview. “Instead, I’m going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testament to my patriotism.”

I think that’s amazing, personally.

(source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299439,00.html)

Yeah, well, Bush hasn’t attended any military funerals since becoming president. Not a single one. What does that say about his judgement, and quality of character?

“Wearing a flag pin whlie supporting the governments right to wiretap citizens without court approval, is not supporting those ideals. It is wrapping yourself in the flag while pissing on the constitution.

Obama is trying to be a different kind of politician, and I am not sure he can pull it off, but I find it extremely admirable. He is a breath of fresh air after 25 years of the conservative stink this country has had since reagan was elected.”

This is…ACE. I wish it would fit on a tshirt.

“There should be requirements such as: they must be American first. I sure wouldn’t want Hitler running our country would you? Likewise, I wouldn’t want a Muslim running our country either. “

You do realize there are Muslim Americans currently fighting on your behalf in Iraq and Afghanistan, don’t you? Do you also consider them un-American purely based on their religion?

The Right wing fundies had their 8 years with Bush. They screwed the country up, time to let someone else have a shot. Is it any wonder even the Republican voters have chosen the moderate McCain as opposed to another Bible thumper like Huckabee?

No. I think it reflects the shallow level of thought of the inquisitor though.

Orion…Obama attended Catholic school. He is not Muslim.

And even if he was a Muslim, what does that have to do with him running our country? There is absolutely NO religious requirement to be a good leader.

From the Times.co.uk website:

Mr Obama, who was raised as a Christian by his white mother despite his Kenyan father being Muslim, has been dogged by smears and innuendo for months that he is in fact an Islamist trying to enter the Oval office by stealth.

“Let’s make clear what the facts are: I am a Christian. I have been sworn in with a Bible. I pledge allegiance [to the American flag] and lead the pledge of allegiance sometimes in the United States Senate when I’m presiding.”

Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3194740.ece

amblessed - you also respond to questions and place your personal judgment on others based on these anonymous answers.
“It’s OK though, I too make mistakes.” yeah, you just don’t admit to yours.

now, back to the question asked… any person can slap on a flag pin to “show” their patriotism… I would rather have someone who “lives” their patriotism by upholding the constitution, respecting the laws of this country and honoring the rights of its citizens.

4/29/08: FINALLY, Barak ‘I can no more disown Rev. Wright than the black community’ Obama, has had a sudden change - people I know came to that very same conclusion (Wright is wrong) a very long time ago - just 48 hrs ago he was defending Rev. Wright - today the sudden change - some chickens have apparently come home to Roost !

amblessed, here we don’t know anything about each other except what what we choose to disclose. I think that is a good thing. We judge each other by what we say instead of who we are.

One thing I’ve learned over the years is that when leaders appeal to our patriotism they always are trying to convince us to do the wrong thing. Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Reminds me of the way Olie North showed up to hearings in full military dress uniform to his hearings on illegally seillings arms to Iran, funding the Nicuarguan Contra rebels, destroying evidence, etc. Like I said, last refuge of a scoundrel.

The Bard new all about patriotism:

BEWARE THE LEADER WHO BANGS THE DRUMS OF WAR IN ORDER TO WHIP THE CITIZENRY INTO PATRIOTIC FERVOR, FOR PATRIOTISM IS INDEED A DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD. IT BOTH EMBOLDENS THE BLOOD, JUST AS IT NARROWS THE MIND…AND WHEN THE DRUMS OF WAR HAVE REACHED A FEVER PITCH AND THE BLOOD BOILS WITH HATE AND THE MIND HAS CLOSED, THE LEADER WILL HAVE NO NEED IN SEIZING THE RIGHTS OF THE CITIZENRY. RATHER, THE CITIZENRY, INFUSED WITH FEAR AND BLINDED WITH PATRIOTISM, WILL OFFER UP ALL RIGHTS UNTO THE LEADER, AND GLADLY SO. HOW DO I KNOW? FOR THIS IS WHAT I HAVE DONE. AND, I AM CAESAR. —WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE

You are absolutely right filetofspam..

lol.

todaly, Thanks for the kind ? words >> I think it reflects the shallow level of thought of the inquisitor though << - what does this reply say about you when you don’t even know the questioner:

color hair educational background life experiences height weight Marital status Children Veteran or non-Veteran Likes Dislikes Type car he drives Heartbreaks he’s been through Conditions he grew up in Ever do drugs, smoke, etc.

todaly would have to admit, “No, I don’t know these things”. It’s OK though, I too make mistakes.

rnealw, I didn’t say every patriotic person is a scoundrel, I said that patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. When people appeal to other people’s patriotism or question the patriotism of other people they are trying to get them to do something they probably shouldn’t do.

All that said I’m not sure what the definition of a patriot is. I consider myself a human being first and an American after that. If my country asks me to do something that goes against what I believe to be right from a human point of view I wouldn’t do it.

If it is necessary to put your nationalism ahead of everything else to be considered a patriot than I believe I will always flunk that test.

Obama said:

“I decided I won’t wear that pin on my chest,’ he said in the interview. ‘Instead, I’m going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testament to my patriotism.’

The reason Obama won’t wear the flag, refuses to stand for the ‘Pledge of Allegiance’, and turns his back on the flag is all for the same reason…he isn’t an American and he hates what America stands for!

If “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel”. Then I for one am a scoundrel and proud of it. . . God bless America

Thanks editor, my mistake !!

Orion…I almost don’t even know what to say.

Present me with the photos where his back was turned during the pledge, it was probably because he was leading the Pledge in the Senate and was facing the senators.

You said

“The news also brought out that Obama was raised as a Muslim, taught in their schools, not as a Christian”

At least present me with a source, orion! And preferably, an unbiased one! I gave you a direct quote from Obama saying he was raised in Christian school and a source. And the source is right-wing (FOX) to top that.

You cannot expect to engage in any quasi-intelligent form of debate without citing anything!

Secondly, Obama was raised in Hawaii (For 6 years), Indonesia (For 2 years) and then Chicago, IL. This is Born in America and spent most of his life in America…unless you are letting the 2 years spent in Indonesia account for his entire life.

(Source: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-070325obama-youth-story,1,4006113.story?page=2)

Finally, you said: “I sure wouldn’t want Hitler running our country would you? Likewise, I wouldn’t want a Muslim running our country either.”

Equating Hitler to Muslims is…shameful. Is your vision of Muslims the radical Muslims that we are currently fighting in the Middle East? If so, please open your mind and try to learn some about religions other than Christianity. I’m not trying to be rude or disrespectful here, please believe me. People have their differences. But the radical Muslims on the news, as suicide bombers and killers, are the minority of Islamists. Assuming that all Muslims are like that is like assuming that all Christians are like Seung-Hui-Cho. He was the (Christian) who massacred his classmates in Virginia Tech…

“Not being an American myself I would find it hard to endorse a person who didn’t walk the talk. People need to look at the evidence or fruit if you will. When a person claims to be very patriotic yet denies the very emblems that represent this patriotism I find something is afoot. “

gasmanobt3, what do you mean by “denies the very emblem”? Not wearing a flag pin on your lapel is not denying the emblem. It is choosing not to be another phony flag waver who does it only because they think they are supposed, not because it means anything.

“If a person wants to be known as a patriot let them do it in the public arena such as show support to the troops and fallen soldiers and their families.”

Obama does support the troops. He doesn’t want to see them continue to be in harms way unnecessarily, and he is willing to do something about it. Supporting the troops and supporting the war are two completely different things.

“Help the needy and homeless. Let them get their hands dirty with the people they claim to represent and are hoping would support them in return. The mark of a true patriot is the one who does it without the fanfare and adulation of onlookers and doesn’t expect anything in return. “

Obama got his hands dirtier (in a good way) than any other candidate. He was a community organizer, and a civil rights lawyer. As president of the Harvard Law Review, he could have taken a very different route, but he wanted to be able to be close to the real people in this county.

“Is every American who doesn’t wear a pin or fly a flag unpatriotic? I wouldn’t think so, but high profile people like Obama should, in my opinion, wear such a pin and to encourage others to do the same.”

I actually admire the fact that he doesn’t wear one. It shows he has more conviction. You just need to be able to understand why he doesn’t, and not imply your own motives.

The flag is only a symbol, and is not what is important. The flag is not what protects our way of life, our system of government is supposed to do that. Demonstating the ideals that built this country, like liberty, justice & equality, are the only true ways to show your patriotism.

Let me clarify. I firmly believe that a president who doesn’t care enough to honor the death of a soldier is hardly someone I’d endorse. It sends an all too clear message. One, I believe we agree, that is unfavorable. Also, there are many who call themselves patriotic and are not flag wavers as much as there are those who don’t understand the meaning of said flag. Although the flag is a symbol it does represent the ultimate sacrifice of so many who have died in the line of duty. It would be a shame if this symbol was removed from the caskets of those brought home in a box. That symbol is a constant reminder of what attributes made the States what they are today. Life, liberty, freedom of speech, religion etc. I find that it’s shameful when a leader, no matter who, cannot tear themselves away from “other business” to take the time to honor those who are killed or wounded. It shows a lack of empathy and support for those still in the field and those left behind at home. Whether a person wears a pin or not doesn’t make them a patriot anymore than holding a hockey stick makes you an NHLer, (no offense to any NHLers). My point was that a candidate should stand for what they believe in AND support the ideals of the country they are trying to represent. One way is by wearing a pin or flying a flag BUT only if they truly understand why they are doing it and not just because it is gauche.

gasmanobt3-

“If a person wants to be known as a patriot let them do it in the public arena such as show support to the troops and fallen soldiers and their families.”

President Bush wears a flag pin and he has not attended any memorials or funerals for soldiers killed in action during his presidency as his predecessors had done. neither did his father and he wore a flag pin also.

march 29, 2004: an american soldier is killed and another injured when a roadside bomb explodes under their vehicle. george w. bush remarked to a reporter, ‘Don’t tell anybody, but I’ll be fishing tomorrow!’ as he boarded a plane to his ranch for a week-long vacation.

on June 19, 2003 an american soldier was killed by a rocket-propelled grenade. June 20, 2003 george w. bush attended a fundraiser on a georgia plantation, raking in $2.25 million for his re-election campaign. mr. bush had the time to hobnob with campaign contributors, but he didn’t have the time to attend this soldier’s funeral.

according to you, the president is not a patriot.

Keep your “dime store” flag pins and give me a President who ‘lives’ their patriotism by upholding the constitution, respecting the laws of this country and honoring the rights of its citizens.

“Whether a person wears a pin or not doesn’t make them a patriot anymore than holding a hockey stick makes you an NHLer, (no offense to any NHLers). My point was that a candidate should stand for what they believe in AND support the ideals of the country they are trying to represent. One way is by wearing a pin or flying a flag BUT only if they truly understand why they are doing it and not just because it is gauche.”

While wearing a flag pin might SEEM like you support the ideals of this country, we have seen all to often those who do wear them do the exact opposite. The way you support the ideals this country was built on is to support programs and legislation that support those ideals, and by reject those that don’t. Wearing a flag pin whlie supporting the governments right to wiretap citizens without court approval, is not supporting those ideals. It is wrapping yourself in the flag while pissing on the constitution.

Obama is trying to be a different kind of politician, and I am not sure he can pull it off, but I find it extremely admirable. He is a breath of fresh air after 25 years of the conservative stink this country has had since reagan was elected.

editor, quoted from Obama: ‘Let’s make clear what the facts are: I am a Christian. I have been sworn in with a Bible. I pledge allegiance [to the American flag] and lead the pledge of allegiance sometimes in the United States Senate when I’m presiding.’

But…the pictures (plural) shown on TV news showed Obama sitting down (and turning his back) while all others were saying he Pledge of Allegiance, so who is not telling the truth here? I’d have to say Obama because he has much more to lose.

The news also brought out that Obama was raised as a Muslim, taught in their schools, not as a Christian…

You asked “And even if he was a Muslim, what does that have to do with him running our country? There is absolutely NO religious requirement to be a good leader.”

There should be requirements such as: they must be American first. I sure wouldn’t want Hitler running our country would you? Likewise, I wouldn’t want a Muslim running our country either.

There is nothing wrong with wanting and expecting a bonified American, born and bred here in the USA running our country. Obama doesn’t fit the bill…but neither does the female running candidate…so doesn’t matter which way it goes we are toast.