Can you Prove God?

Sure I’m an atheist, bit a very happy one. You may like to think of me as some kind of bitter, twisted, evil, soulless man with nothing but venom in his veins, but that is far from the truth.

I am happily married with two wonderful daughters, who I love with all my heart. I have a wonderful set of friends and a successful career. I also was once a Christian and have been baptised, confirmed. My grandfather was a minister, I went to Christian schools and attended church every week. We studied the bible and other religions every week for 10 years. But I am sorry to say that when you look a bit closer - none of the arguments stack up.

Am I worried about offending people? No. However, I am offended when religion drives people to bash homosexuals, or gun down abortionists, or prevent life saving stem cell research, or grossly twist scientific knowledge to support their version of creationism, or convince people that flying planes into buildings will earn them 72 virgins in the afterlife, or destroy ancient statues of of other gods, or beat women for showing some skin, or killing their sisters for the crime of being raped, or spreading AIDS by teaching condoms are the work of the devil, or sheltering pedophiles from prosecution, or inflicting horrible suffering on animals because they must be killed just the way god likes, or starving people during daylight hours,

For FAR too long rational, moderate people have stood by and said “we must respect people’s faith”. What rubbish. Respect is not a right - it is earned, and I see very few redeeming features inherent in religion.

“When you decide not to believe in God, then by default you choose Satan”

Satan doesn’t exist either - it’s just a fictitious character generated to contrast an “all loving” god with, and to blame for everything that is wrong in this world without tarnishing god’s perfect image. If god loves us so much, then why did he create Satan? If it is in his power to remove evil from the universe, then why hasn’t is love for us compelled him to act?

Free will? Surely to an all knowing god he would KNOW what we are going to do from the very moment he created everything. Surely an omniscient god would KNOW the results of giving us “free will” before he even did it - so why proceed with the charade?

“ If you want to keep your mind shut like a steal trap then so be it.”

You have not once directly address any of the questions I have raised, yet accuse ME of being close minded? Be truthful with yourself and ask these questions. When you have good answers I will be here to listen to them. You might even save my soul and be awarded in heaven for doing so.

“I would NOT want to be in your shoes when Jesus returns!”

Again, you try and scare me with you “all loving” god. Oh yes, god loves everyone unconditionally - unless you don’t believe in the right god, then you are destined for the eternal flames of hell where there will be wailing and a great gnashing of teeth. Sorry, that doesn’t sound like any kind of love I am aware of.

I would not like to be in your shoes when Allah returns.

Thomas,

I am sorry that you feel hatred toward our Creator, God Almighty, but you do have Him wrong and you’ve twisted scripture to fit your anger and hatred in Him…

God did not create evil. He created every being and blessed them with freedom of choice. He will never demand anybody, even angels, to worship Him out of fear that is why He gave us freedom of choice in the first place.

Lucifer was the highest ranking angel in heaven, but grew jealous, full of vanity and anger. He wanted to be Jesus. He wanted to be better than his Creator! Lucifer became Satan and tricked one third of the angels in heaven to follow him.

There was war in heaven. Michael and His angels fought against Satan and his angels. Satan lost and was cast out of heaven with his angels…that is how we came to have evil on earth.

Yes ‘all loving.’ God loves us so much that He sent His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ to show us the way. He knew it would take His most precious gift to redeem mankind. Jesus came to save us, yes willingly, because He loves us more than we will ever know.

You do not understand God to think God finds joy in the destruction of the lost. The Bible calls it “His strange act.” because it goes against every think God is, but He cannot allow evil in heaven. Anyway, evil would not live in the purity of God’s brilliance. God’s light will consume all wickedness.

Once the wicked are destroyed heaven will be perfect harmony, love and joy forever and eternal peace! Just imagine! No more being tempted, pain, sorrow, death!

You asked: “Is it not in his power to remove evil from the universe?”

God can most assuredly remove every bit of sin that earth and it’s inhabitance suffer from daily, but then if He did He would have robots; following His every whim. God does not want robots, He wants children. Children who love Him enough to follow Him and love Him enough to do as He asks.

When your parents told you to not put your hand on the burner they did it to protect you from being hurt, right? Yes, well God does the same thing. He tells us what will hurt us and asks us not to do it because He knows that it takes you down the wrong path. A path that leads to death.

You said: “FAITH is believe without evidence”

You are absolutely right; faith is belief without evidence. That is why being a Christian is based on FAITH. When we exercise our faith it increases and we grow closer to God.

You said: “Why shouldn’t I have faith in Allah, Vishnu, or Xenu?”

There is only ONE truth; ONE God. Allah is not God, then who is he? He is a being that demands what God has (sound familiar? like Satan doesn’t it). God teaches us to love our enemies, but allah says to kill their enemies…big difference.

Each of us have to find our own way in life, and whatever we choose (free will) to believe that will last for all eternity, so choose wisely.

I hope this has helped you to understand God better. If you truly desire to find God, you will. It is all up to you. If you want it bad enough, you’ll find Him.

St. Thamas Aquinas came up with 5 logical proofs for the existence of God. Some are better than others, but I will list them all anyway from strongest to weakest. Also, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (aka pope Benedict XVI) wrote on Christianity as a religion in the 1970s, and I will add a little from him at the end.

1. Argument from Motion: Nothing is possible of moving itself (see Newton’s 1st law of motion). Therefore there had to be something that moved first in order to set everything else into motion. In the end (the beginning, since we are looking backwards through time) there could only be one thing to set the first object in motion, because multiple things would have to have been interacting with each other (see Newtwon’s universal law of Gravitation). This thing that set the first object in motion would have to be eternal, and have had sufficient energy and intelligence to set the Universe in motion.

2. The Argument from Cause/Generation: No living thing is capable of making itself, it depends upon a previous cause for its existence. In the begining, there had to be something, because there is something now, and if there was nothing in the beginning then there wouldn’t be anything now. Furthermore, the similarity of all things points to a common origin, which points to a single first cause.

3. The Argument from design: Nature seems to have been designed. From the smallest structure of the atom to the largest stars and galaxies, the universe works in a way that had to have been designed. All physicists agree that there is a universal Gravitational constant. Who decided that it should be what it is? There are so many things that had to have come together in order for life on earth to exist. When you consider the probability of all those things happening by chance, you realize that that probability is infinetecimally small. A scientific theory is defined as the best explanation for a given set of observations. All things considered, one realizes that we should have been made by an intelligent being after all.

4. The argument from heirarchy: In nature, there seems to be an structure, or hierarchy of beings. The cat is superior to the worm by structure, intelligence, and capability. The man is superior to the cat because of his superior knowledge of the world and his ability to ponder concepts beyond himself. He can consider truth, unity, goodness and beauty in a way that the cat cannot. However there must be something superior to man. Man is not perfect. His imperfections, and the fact that he recognizes his imperfections, points to the existence of a perfect being. Nearly all men recognize the necessity of loving one’s neighbor as one’s self. This good, along with the other transcendentals (higher things) point to the existence of something that is ultimate good.

5. the Argument from death/necessity: If things don’t get the necessary sustainence, they die. How is it that the necessities exist? Why doesn’t everything die? According to the law of energy conservation, there is a fixed amount of energy in the universe, and eventually, when it spreads out, everything will die. But how is it that life continues to generate new life? How has energy been so concentrated in living beings that it can continue to generate and re-generate and be used by all living things in such an efficient way? Consider the life cycle (producers, consumers, decomposers). How is it that engery is conserved and consumed so efficiently? Why didn’t the first organisms just die, and that was the end? All we know is that they didn’t. Science can answer some questions, but it doesn’t answer that driving fundamental question: why?

Also, please consider truth the existence of truth. By truth, I mean the classic, Aristotalian definition: objective reality. I submit that truth cannot be relative. If one claims that truth is relative, they claim that that relativity itself is objective, which undercuts the fundamental prinicple that they are trying to argue. The book “yes or no” by Peter Kreeft outlines all this quite well. I ask that you consider St. Thomas Aquinas’ and Aristotle’s definition of truth: “Verum est ens” (truth is being/existence) and “if I say that what is true in true, and what is false is false, I speak the truth. If I say that what is false is true and what is true is false, I speak a falsehood”

Finally, Cardinal Ratzinger pointed out in his book “Introduction to Christianity” that “no man can set God and his Kingdom before another man so that he must believe.” But like the Rabbi who argued with the atheist, everyone must consider that nagging, gnawing voice in the back of his mind: “perhaps its true.” he compares the faithful man to the man who is adrift in the middle of the ocean, clinging to a piece of wood. He doesn’t know where the wood will take him, but he beleives that he will be safe clinging to the wood that floats, rather than enter the unknown abyss of the deep. Ratzinger asserts that the wood, is the wood of the cross, and our faith, is a surrender to, a clinging to that wood, which will give us the best chance of survival.

“sigh” even after a year the score remains…

0 - Proof captainassassin exists 0 - Proof captainassassin doesn’t exist

“it’s not easy believing in something thats not there” - yet here are all these people doing it like mad.

Amazing coincidences? When there are no rules about what is amazing enough, they’re much more common than you’d think. How many people do you think about in a day? How many times do you suddenly think of somebody and they DON’T die - or they die and you don’t think of them?

Your “interior God” might be a useful concept, but do you have to call it God?

Like the “first cause” argument, God as the answer to “Why is there something rather than nothing?” just moves the problem one step back: why is there a God and something rather than nothing?

what the…??

I dont understand half you people…lol

gracenhope, I think you were meaning to say ‘askegg’ and not Orion…because I, Orion, do believe in God and not evolution. :)

Welcome back Captain.

Yeah - you keep saying that Orion, but you have yet to provide ANY proof that this is actually the case. So exactly why should I have faith in your Jewish zombie?

warmheart, thank you for your comments. They have warmed my heart. and libbie I can see that you are a sweet child of the King too. Let us all keep those who do not know God, or desire not to know Him, in our prayers.

Only those who are “truth-seekers” will find God. Nobody can do it for you, you have to do it yourself. Deep down inside your being you have to reach to find the answers to your deepest questions, and if you do not have those questions as to who God is then you will never know Him.

God has written His laws on every single human heart who has ever lived or ever will live. It is up to us to follow that path, but if you have closed the door and will not open it, you will be lost.

“Seek and ye shall find. Knock and the Door shall be opened to you” Do you desire to know if God is real? Are you a “truth-seeker”?

No body can prove to a non-believe that God is real and He exists. It is left up to each of us to seek His face. May the Lord send His H oly Spirit to you this day. God bless.

Yeah, yeah - so you say. Yet I wager like everyone else in the world you are completely unable to provide any rational argument to support these bizarre ideas that have permeated our societies to the extent we take them for granted.

Do you really think I am afraid of you “arguin back”? Clown.

Can you prove you have a brain? Have you ever actually seen it? Have you ever touched it? Right- but you believe it is there through faith right? It’s the same with God. We can’t see him or touch him but we know he is there.

look askegg there is a GOD and if you dont see that you will end up in hell wats your problem anyways ORION AND ASKEGG please stop fighting caus I can see what your fightin bout on my email and it is irritating im not trying to b mean but I dont want in this but thanks ORION for trying to tell ASKEGG that GOD is real that was real nice but its ASKEGGS own fault that they rnt believin in GOD but try sending ASKEGG a private lettr so I wont get it sorry and we should all know that GOD is real caus he is really really real ASKEGG and ALL you non blievrs should KNOW that GOD is real and he will help you with your problems if you continue to pray!

“You are so into this ‘hate God’ thing that you are allowing it to blind you to what’s really happening around you and in our world.”

I have already said this, but let me be clearer so even you can understand.

THERE IS NO GOD.

There never was.

You want to call that hate? Fine. Then I accuse you of hating Allah, Vishnu, Xenu, Baal, Zeus, Thor, Wotan, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

No person can prove to someone else there is a God. I will resort to my previous answer above:

From my perspective, nobody can prove to someone else that God exists. Reason? Because God is personal. If you are a ‘truth-seeker’ then you will find Him, but if you are waiting for someone to prove His existance to you, it’ll never happen.

He is knocking on your heart’s door. If you open it and ask Him to come in, He will. And then you’ll have your proof. God bless you.

askegg: I have found some very interesting and helpful statements from people here in this post and for you to say what you did, well, that just proves what I said . . . you have to be a ‘truth-seeker’ to find Him, that is if you REALLY want to know Him, which apparently you don’t.

asalama alaikum..first of all am a muslim..I believe that GOD HAS been thea,Hes thea and He will be thea…imagine if you told tha world that the computer that am using came to existence on its own!do you think even a 3 year old wud believe U?the most complex thing is the human brain that created this piece of technology..n if this brain wasnt engineered then Hu did it?answer me plizzz!!!my email is farxaan_3@hotmail.com..I wud like to answer all questions that are disturbing your minds pliz ask..

GOD answered my prayer and made me a better person .

ok, 4 all those who dont believe, u’ll be sorry… I hope God takes pity on u, even though you show him no respect. like a lot of other people said… what about the wind? when you can prove the wind doesnt exist, you may be able 2 prove that God doesnt exsists. if you r waiting 4 that, I’ll have 2 warn u, you will die waitin, because God exsists point blank.

all you people who dont believe are in 4 a shock when you die, just warning u…

Pray to god he will answer and there is your proof right there… dont pray once and excpet him to answer the first time you have to have a GOOD relationship with him

You can not prove what does not exist, thus you can not prove it does not exist. Because there is no substance to prove either way. This is why the myth continues.

Honestly? without offending anyone, I think god is the oldest myth ever created by men. I do believe in god because of what my parents had tought me but who is god exacly and how was he created? we dont know that answer because we are sinners and we’re not perfect.

pattijo: I agree, those of us who believe and live accordingly dont need proof. Those who dont believe have never experienced the difference when there is divine guidance and therefore seek outside evidence.

ok so this might sounds really silly, but it is the same concept, no one and I mean no one can prove that god excists!!! god is like father christmas, he excists in those who want to believe in him!

ok so this might sounds really silly, but it is the same concept, no one and I mean no one can prove that god excists!!! god is like father christmas, he excists in those who want to believe in him!

I have no “doudts” about “GOD”,, you can ‘READ’ your Bible or do you “STUDY WHAT YOU ARE READING?” In GOD”S WORD; HE tells you to “fisrt : “you are wanting “PROOF” GOD IS GOD ; THE ONE TRUE GOD! #2. Proof!! my ? 2 you is: are you now ;”at this moment “breathing”,,can you “THINK?” can yiu “SEE >BUT IS IT “WORLDLY”>>OR IS IT “GODLY WISDOM” GODLY WISDOM IS ,,”UNDERSTANDING HOW TO USE YOUR “KNOWLEDGE” IN THE WAY OF “RIGHTOUSNESS”..”YOU WILL ALWAYS ACCOMPLISH WHAT YOU NEED TO DO ;”FOR YOU ARE USING YOUR KNOWLEDGEWITH UNDERSTANDING THE WORK ;NEED;SKILL; IN THE “WISDOM GOD SO BLESSED YOU WITH..KNOWING HOW TO USE “WHAT YOU “KNOW” AND UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE DOING /USING YOUR KNOWLEDGE “CORRECTLY”= GODLY WISDOM..THE WORLD IS FILLED WITH “GREAT KNOWLEDGE”,,PEOPLE RUNNING TO AND FRO AND GETTING NO WHERE!! “GODLY WISDOM”, YOU WILL FEEL IN YOUR “HEART” “THIS IS THE “RIGHT WAY;RIGHT DECISION; AND YOU WILL FIND;;”YOU WILL NOT END UP IN “A MESS” TO BREAK IT DOWN;;”YOU WILL STOP AND GIVE THE SITUATION “PRAYFUL THOUGTH” BEFORE YOU START TO DO ANYTHING!!” =GODLY WISDOM!! YOU THE UNDERSTANDING OF “WHAT YOU “KNOW”=KNOWLEDGE AND IF IT THE “RIGHT THING /OR WAY TO DO OR GO!! I HAD OPEN HEART SURGERY AND “NOT ONE TIME DID I CRY,YELL OUT,AS THEY WERE PUTTING TWO{3} VERY LONG “NEEDLES/SHUTS INTO THE JUGLER VEIN IN EACH SIDE OF MY NECK..”THE LEFT ONE WENT DOWN INTO MY AORTA.” THEY TOLD ME ;THE PAIN WOULD BE VERY SEVERE;THAT I COULD CRY,YELL ,SCREAM, THEY WERE USE TO THAT..I ASSURE THEM ;”THERE WOULD BE “NONE OF THAT!”. SHOCKED THE “2” DOCTORS AND “3” NURSES; AND ASKED ;”HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT?” I JUST LOOKED AT THEM ;”IN A “PEACE THAT I KNEW WHO WAS GIVING IT TO ME”;;AND I ASKED ,”DO YOU KNOW THE 23RD PSALM? AND HERE ARE “TWO DOCTORS BEGAN TO QUOTE IT!!” I ASKED,”NOW WHAT DID YOU “JUST “ TELL ME? AND THEY SAID THE FIRST 2 VERSES AND I STOPPED THEM AND I ASKED,”WHO IS THE SHEPHERD? {all I could see were their eyes} AND FOR AFEW SECONDS THEY HAD TO “THINK” AND THEY SAID ,”THE LORD”;;I ASKED ;”WHO IS THE LORD;”THE GOOD SHEPHERD”? AND THEY SAID,”JESUS”..I TOLD THEM THAT LONG AGO I WAS TO HAVE A MEDICAL TEST DONE AND HEARD IT WAS VERY PAINFUL AND I WAS “SCARED TO DEATH”..AS MY HUSBAND WAS DRIVING TO THE HOSPITAL,,I PICKED UP THE SMALL RED NEW TESTAMENT I ALWAYS KEPT{stillis in my car right now} AND IT JUST “OPEN UP TO THE 23rd PSALM AND I BEGAN TO READ TI AND THEN I STARTED CRYING AND LAUGHING ; MY HUSBAND ASKED:”WHAT IN THE WORLD IS WRONG?” AND I TOLD HIM WHAT “the holy spirit” HAD JUST REVELED TO ME::JESUS IS MY SHEPHERD AND I AM HIS LAMB AND THE”GREEN PASTURES ARE HIS “ARMS “ FOR HE IS “HOLDING ME” TO “REST” AND THE “STILL WATERS” ARE THE “WORDS OF GOD” AND AS I “REST IN “HIS LOVING STRONG ARMS”SCRIPTURES ARE FLOWING INTO MY MIND/=SOUL AND THEN I ASKED THE “2” DOCTORS ;”WHAT DOES THE NEXT VERSE SAY?” AND THEY BOTH SAID;”HE RESTORETH MY SOUL” I TOLD THEM; I AM LAYING IN MY SHEPHERD’S ARMS AND I WILL LET “THE HOLY SPIRIT”FLOW THRU MY SOUL”, SCRIPTURES TO GIVE ME STRENGTH” FOR I HAVE A PATH I MUST WALK;”THE PATH OF “RIGHTEOUSNESS” FOR MY SHEHERD=”JESUS” NAME SAKE;;AND THE “VALLEY”;;OH YES’”THERE IS A “shadow” BUT GOD IS THE AUTHOR OF “CONFUSION”, DEBATE OR HASH SPOKEN OR WRITTEN WORDS OR DEEDS!! REMEMBER: “UNDERSTANDING+KNOWLEDGE=WISDOM!! CHOOSE “GODLY WISDOM,KNOWLEDGE,AND UNDERSTANDING AND YOU WILL STAY ON THE STRAIGHT AND “NARROW” PATH OF RIGHTEOUSNESS;BECAUSE JESUS IS WALKING WITH YOU, “HE WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU NOR FORSAKE YOU!! WE ARE THE ONES WHO WALK AWAY FROM HIM..WE CHOOSE;OUR CHOICE;YOUR CHOICE!!

magictink: Those things that exist, do so whether you believe in them or not.

Seeing isn’t believing, believing is seeing.

So you say, but you have been unable to provide ANY evidence this is actually the case. Restating the same thing over and over is not proof.

I am not arguing, but merely asking questions. So far none of you have been willing to answer them.

go to http://www.answersingenesis.org.It’s more a creation vs. evolution thing but still they have interesting stuff.

askegg, I was wondering if all this information we’ve put up for you has helped? Let us know

“…have a GOOD relationship with him”

So you can have a BAD relationship with an ALL LOVING god?

Seeing isn’t believing, believing is seeing.

Talk about timing, thanks orion, that is His Holy Spirit! Praying and moving on, et tu

thanx for the posts. ima commit suicide now because you all depress me.

Evil ALWAYS seeks to discredit God and His Word.

Seeing isn’t believing, believing is seeing.

GOD IS REAL PS GO TO CHURCH

Which church? which god?

I believe in whats in my heart and yes God is there

believe and pray read a day

“golf claps”?

What’s ‘golf claps’?

can you prove that God DOESN’T exist?

hey gods ral he seant jesus to die 4 our sins

There you go again, Orion. Threatening me with your all loving god.

There is only one true God, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. All who worship and follow Him are in the right “church”

umm.. God is Sexy. What else do you want. Say prayers (reasonable ones) and you will find god in everything good you see. My sandwich also tastes yummy.

oops! I can’t believe I misspelled “emphasis” LOL!

im done talkin to you too, ASKEGG caus orions right .read the BIBLE and maybe you will learn SOMTHIN!

proving god defeats the whole purpose of faith.

There is only one I AM, God, Lord, He, Him, all one in the same.

go on google and type chat with god.com and there you find he is as he answers you

If we ALL were quiet, the very stones would cry out His existence!

look around you how were humans made and don’t tell me by monkeys because then monkeys now can’t turn into humans. Look at the air we breath their so many toxics in our air but it’s porpotional for us to breathe healthy air and how can a woman carry a baby in her womb who made this world It couldn’t form by itself why can’t scientist made blood, human beings(without sex,and water? answer me that

And with that, I’m locking this…it’s run it’s course :) Start up a new one, as it’s been a long (and interesting) discussion.

I HAVE read the bible - that is WHY I am an atheist.

Welll, “It’s like the wind, I can’t see it but I feel it”

You can’t prove God is there. It isn’t possible. But He is.

Seeing isn’t believing, believing is seeing.

Oops double posts

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION!!! no you cannot logically, scientifically, etc etc prove there is a God. The whole point of religion is to blindly accept and give faith and you will be rewarded for that in the afterlife. No more, no less.

There is no other book on earth that has had the same meaning for 4500 years, that it has never changed, that it was written over a period of 1500 years, and is still the best seller of all time. The Bible proves God was and is and is to come. It is about one life and everything around Him: Christ. The Bible proves itself to be of God.

What kind of proof do you need? Specifically, what type of proof would it take for you to say, “OK – I guess God DOES exist!”? The proof has to be compatible with the subject matter. I can’t scientifically prove to you that my sandwich was delicious or that my mom loves me (although it was and she does). What type of proof are you looking for?

besides 2 men lose everything in a tornado. 1 man shuns God and blames him for his misfortune. and the other prays for God’s guidance and thakns him for his protection. WHo do you thinks going to bounce back quicker

I’m not saying that God doesn’t exist. But Then Again.. I never said HE did either. So.. I stay at no religion. I refer to it as Brain Wash, just to keep us all in line.

golf claps

Okay, alright, well done, that was a nice 1-year belated discussion everyone. And I think we’ve gotten a lot accomplished here…

looks around

Hang on… its around here somewhere… I think… okay maybe not…

God exists because there’s no other explanation on who created the universe or who decided that the big bang should happen.

shakes head

…this is sooo utterly hilarious.

Imagine if you will a person putting an alarm clock in a paper bad. The alarm clock is not put together, but left unassembled. Then the person shakes the paper bag. How many times will he have to shake the bag until the alarm clock goes together and is able to tell time and will sound the alarm?

Now, how much simpler is the alarm clock to the highly comples body that God created?

Only an Intelligent Designer could have made our bodies, the animals, trees, stars, air…

Look…Andrew, if you want to continue looking for every little reason to hate God you’ll be able to find millions of them and then when you are done making them up you can listen to those who hate Him and get all new reasons to hate Him some more!

It all boils down to one thing which I said in the very beginning…nobody can prove to someone else that God exists. Reason? Because God is personal. If you are a ‘truth-seeker’ then you will find Him, but if you are waiting for someone to prove His existance to you, it’ll never happen. It is all up to you.

GOD is real!

you just have to have faith:)

pezkez: Some religions are about brain washing, many prescribe to rituals and customs that the Bible says you shouldnt get involved in.

magictink: Those things that exist, do so whether you believe in them or not.

*‘sigh’ even after a year the score remains…

0 - Proof captainassassin exists 0 - Proof captainassassin doesn’t exist*

Oh, how snappy… and incorrect…

Can you see the wind? No, but you know it is there and you see the effects. That’s what God is like

well if there isnt a God out there, who made the seas, the stars, or the beautiful painted sunsets? God is real. do not doubt him.

There is love. So, there is God.

Greetings fellow user, You may be having this problem for the folowing reasons, also I hope you enjoy my help, and rate my advice, Thank you very much, and enjoy the help below! -Agnosticism (from the Greek a, meaning “without” and gnosis, “knowledge”, translating to unknowable) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding metaphysics, afterlife or the existence of God, god(s), or deities—is unknown or (possibly) inherently unknowable.

Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism.

Demographic research services[1] normally list agnostics alongside categories such as atheist and non-religious, although this is misleading, since religious people can be agnostic (indicating a lack of absolute certainty, therefore treating their religion as a faith).

Contents [hide] 1 History of the term 2 Qualifying agnosticism 3 Philosophical opinions 3.1 Thomas Henry Huxley 3.2 Robert G. Ingersoll 3.3 Bertrand Russell 4 Notes 5 References 6 See also 7 External links

[edit] History of the term “Agnostic” was introduced by Thomas Henry Huxley in 1869 to describe his philosophy. The term agnostic is also used to describe those who do not absolutely commit themselves about the existence of deities as well as about other matters of religion.

Early Christian church leaders used the Greek word gnosis (knowledge) to describe “spiritual knowledge”. Agnosticism is not to be confused with religious views opposing the doctrine of gnosis and Gnosticism— these are religious concepts that are not generally related to agnosticism.

[edit] Qualifying agnosticism Critics of the term “agnostic” claim that there is nothing distinctive in being agnostic because even many theists do not claim to know with certainty that a god exists—only that they believe it to be true. Under this asserted distinction between the words “belief” and “knowledge,” agnosticism has recently started suffering from terminological ambiguity. While critics maintain the distinction is not contrived; others reject the distinction as trifling. By contrast, compare:

“I believe God(s) exist(s)” means that “I know God(s) exist(s)”. “I believe God(s) exist(s)” can still mean “I don’t know if God(s) exist(s)”. If this distinction is accepted, the term agnostic becomes orthogonal to theism without further qualifiers, and many qualifiers become contradictory unless the distinction is accepted. If this distinction is ultimately accepted by the larger public, the group formerly described by the term will again find themselves without a label, because the qualifiers provided would be inappropriate for their philosophy.

Recently suggested variations include:

Strong agnosticism (also called hard agnosticism, closed agnosticism, strict agnosticism, absolute agnosticism)—the view that the question of the existence or nonexistence of god(s) are unknowable by nature or that human beings are ill-equipped to judge the evidence. Weak agnosticism (also called soft agnosticism, open agnosticism, empirical agnosticism, temporal agnosticism)—the view that the existence or nonexistence of God(s) is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable, therefore one will withhold judgment until/if more evidence is available. Apathetic agnosticism—the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of God(s), but since any God(s) that may exist appear unconcerned for the universe or the welfare of its inhabitants, the question is largely academic anyway. Non-practicing agnosticism—the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of God(s), and that it’s meaningless to care. Ignosticism—the view that the concept of God(s) as a being is meaningless because it has no verifiable consequences, therefore it cannot be usefully discussed as having existence or nonexistence. Model agnosticism—the view that philosophical and metaphysical questions are not ultimately verifiable but that a model of malleable assumption should be built upon rational thought. This branch of agnosticism does not focus on a deity’s existence. Agnostic theism (also called religious agnosticism)—the view of those who do not claim to know existence of God(s), but still believe in such an existence. (See Knowledge vs. Beliefs) Agnostic spiritualism—the view that there may or may not be a God(s), while maintaining a general personal belief in a spiritual aspect of reality, particularly without distinct religious basis, or adherence to any established doctrine or dogma. Relative agnosticism—similar to Agnostic spiritualism, but with the added view that if it was empirically proven that God(s) do or do not exist, it would not affect the beliefs of the Relative Agnostic. Agnostic atheism—the view of those who do not know of the existence or nonexistence of god(s), and do not believe in god(s).[2]

[edit] Philosophical opinions Among the most famous agnostics (in the original sense) have been Thomas Henry Huxley, Robert G. Ingersoll and Bertrand Russell.

[edit] Thomas Henry Huxley Agnostic views are as old as philosophical skepticism, but the terms agnostic and agnosticism were created by Huxley to sum up his thoughts on contemporary developments of metaphysics about the “unconditioned” (Hamilton) and the “unknowable” (Herbert Spencer). It is important, therefore, to discover Huxley’s own views on the matter. Though Huxley began to use the term “agnostic” in 1869, his opinions had taken shape some time before that date. In a letter of September 23, 1860, to Charles Kingsley, Huxley discussed his views extensively:

I neither affirm nor deny the immortality of man. I see no reason for believing it, but, on the other hand, I have no means of disproving it. I have no a priori objections to the doctrine. No man who has to deal daily and hourly with nature can trouble himself about a priori difficulties. Give me such evidence as would justify me in believing in anything else, and I will believe that. Why should I not? It is not half so wonderful as the conservation of force or the indestructibility of matter. . . . It is no use to talk to me of analogies and probabilities. I know what I mean when I say I believe in the law of the inverse squares, and I will not rest my life and my hopes upon weaker convictions. . . . That my personality is the surest thing I know may be true. But the attempt to conceive what it is leads me into mere verbal subtleties. I have champed up all that chaff about the ego and the non-ego, noumena and phenomena, and all the rest of it, too often not to know that in attempting even to think of these questions, the human intellect flounders at once out of its depth. And again, to the same correspondent, May 6, 1863:

I have never had the least sympathy with the a priori reasons against orthodoxy, and I have by nature and disposition the greatest possible antipathy to all the atheistic and infidel school. Nevertheless I know that I am, in spite of myself, exactly what the Christian would call, and, so far as I can see, is justified in calling, atheist and infidel. I cannot see one shadow or tittle of evidence that the great unknown underlying the phenomenon of the universe stands to us in the relation of a Father [who] loves us and cares for us as Christianity asserts. So with regard to the other great Christian dogmas, immortality of soul and future state of rewards and punishments, what possible objection can I—who am compelled perforce to believe in the immortality of what we call Matter and Force, and in a very unmistakable present state of rewards and punishments for our deeds—have to these doctrines? Give me a scintilla of evidence, and I am ready to jump at them. Of the origin of the name agnostic to describe this attitude, Huxley gave the following account:[3]

When I reached intellectual maturity and began to ask myself whether I was an atheist, a theist, or a pantheist; a materialist or an idealist; Christian or a freethinker; I found that the more I learned and reflected, the less ready was the answer; until, at last, I came to the conclusion that I had neither art nor part with any of these denominations, except the last. The one thing in which most of these good people were agreed was the one thing in which I differed from them. They were quite sure they had attained a certain “gnosis,”–had, more or less successfully, solved the problem of existence; while I was quite sure I had not, and had a pretty strong conviction that the problem was insoluble. So I took thought, and invented what I conceived to be the appropriate title of “agnostic.” It came into my head as suggestively antithetic to the “gnostic” of Church history, who professed to know so much about the very things of which I was ignorant. To my great satisfaction the term took. Huxley’s agnosticism is believed to be a natural consequence of the intellectual and philosophical conditions of the 1860s, when clerical intolerance was trying to suppress scientific discoveries which appeared to clash with a literal reading of the Book of Genesis and other established Jewish and Christian doctrines. Agnosticism should not, however, be confused with natural theology, deism, pantheism, or other science positive forms of theism.

By way of clarification, Huxley states, “In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect, do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable” (Huxley, Agnosticism, 1889). While A. W. Momerie has noted that this is nothing but a definition of honesty, Huxley’s usual definition goes beyond mere honesty to insist that these metaphysical issues are fundamentally unknowable.

[edit] Robert G. Ingersoll An Illinois lawyer and politician who evolved into a well-known and sought-after orator in 19th century America, and who has been referred to as the “Great Agnostic.”

In an 1896 lecture titled Why I Am An Agnostic, Ingersoll related what led him to believe in agnosticism and articulated that belief with:

Is there a supernatural power—an arbitrary mind—an enthroned God—a supreme will that sways the tides and currents of the world—to which all causes bow? I do not deny. I do not know—but I do not believe. I believe that the natural is supreme—that from the infinite chain no link can be lost or broken—that there is no supernatural power that can answer prayer—no power that worship can persuade or change—no power that cares for man. I believe that with infinite arms Nature embraces the all—that there is no interference—no chance—that behind every event are the necessary and countless causes, and that beyond every event will be and must be the necessary and countless effects. Is there a God? I do not know. Is man immortal? I do not know. One thing I do know, and that is, that neither hope, nor fear, belief, nor denial, can change the fact. It is as it is, and it will be as it must be. In the conclusion of the speech he simply sums up the agnostic belief as:

We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know.

[edit] Bertrand Russell Bertrand Russell’s pamphlet, Why I Am Not a Christian based on a speech delivered in 1927 and later included in a book of the same title, is considered a classic statement of agnosticism. The essay briefly lays out Russell’s objections to some of the arguments for the existence of God before discussing his moral objections to Christian teachings. He then calls upon his readers to “stand on their own two feet and look fair and square at the world,” with a “fearless attitude and a free intelligence.”

In 1939, Russell gave a lecture on The existence and nature of God, in which he characterized himself as an agnostic. He said:

The existence and nature of God is a subject of which I can discuss only half. If one arrives at a negative conclusion concerning the first part of the question, the second part of the question does not arise; and my position, as you may have gathered, is a negative one on this matter.[4] However, later in the same lecture, discussing modern non-anthropomorphic concepts of God, Russell states:

That sort of God is, I think, not one that can actually be disproved, as I think the omnipotent and benevolent creator can.[5] In Russell’s 1947 pamphlet, Am I An Atheist Or An Agnostic? (subtitled A Plea For Tolerance In The Face Of New Dogmas), he ruminates on the problem of what to call himself:

As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one can prove that there is not a God. On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods. In his 1953 essay, What Is An Agnostic? Russell states:

An agnostic thinks it impossible to know the truth in matters such as God and the future life with which Christianity and other religions are concerned. Or, if not impossible, at least impossible at the present time. However, later in the essay, Russell says:

I think that if I heard a voice from the sky predicting all that was going to happen to me during the next twenty-four hours, including events that would have seemed highly improbable, and if all these events then produced to happen, I might perhaps be convinced at least of the existence of some superhuman intelligence. Note that he didn’t say “supreme” or “supernatural” intelligence, as these terms are metaphysically loaded.

[edit] Notes ^ http://adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html#Nonreligious ^ Cline, Austin. Atheism vs. Agnosticism: What’s the Difference? Are they Alternatives to Each Other?. Retrieved on 2006-09-24. ^ Huxley, Thomas. Collected Essays, 237-239. ISBN 1-85506-922-9.
^ Russell, Bertrand. Collected Papers, Vol 10, 255.
^ Collected Papers, Vol. 10, p.258

[edit] References Man’s Place In Nature, Thomas Huxley, ISBN 0-375-75847-X Why I Am Not a Christian, Bertrand Russell, ISBN 0-671-20323-1 Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion, David Hume, ISBN 0-14-044536-6 Language, Truth, and Logic, A.J. Ayer, ISBN 0-486-20010-8 Atheism, the Case Against God, George H. Smith, ISBN 0-87975-124-X CIA estimate of religious affiliation by country uses “other”, “none”, or “unspecified” as descriptive terms

[edit] See also Look up Agnosticism in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.Wikiquote has a collection of quotations related to: AgnosticismWikisource has an original article from the 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica about: AgnosticismAtheism Nihilism Existentialism God Rationalist movement Religion Religiosity Secularism Skepticism Ietsism Agnostic theism Russell’s teapot Theism Thomas Henry Huxley and agnosticism List of agnostics

[edit] External links Agnostic Discussion Forums: Gathering place for agnostics to share views. What Is An Agnostic? by Bertrand Russell, [1953]. Why I am Not a Christian by Bertrand Russell (March 6, 1927). Why I Am An Agnostic by Robert G. Ingersoll, [1896]. Dictionary of the History of Ideas: Agnosticism The Internet Infidels Discussion Forums(Worldwide) The Secular Web Some reflections and quotes about agnosticism Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry Agnosticism - from ReligiousTolerance.org Agnostic Universe What do Agnostics Believe? - A Jewish perspective -Hope my advice help you, Don’t forget to rate =)

     -Phil2611

I remember a very interesting study. A group was interested in discovering what effect studying science had on the religious views college students. New freshmen were given surveys to gauge their religious views. Then after taking biology, physics, and chemistry the students were given the same survey. The interesting thing was that religious students became more religious after studying science while non-religious became more sure that God and religion were not real.

I had what some people would call a psychic experience in high school. There was a girl I saw every day; she was the student cashier in the lunch room. Back then a hot lunch with milk was $.65 and I always paid with a dollar. She remembered me and would ring me up and get out my $.35 change when she saw me in the line. In the middle of the night I awoke thinking of her; I thought it odd but I went back to sleep. The next day I learned that she died in her sleep. At first I didn’t want to tell anyone because I figured they wouldn’t believe me and that they would think that it was awfull because I was making up stories about a girl who just died. When I did tell a few people I discovered exactly the opposite; not only did people believe me; they invested in my story. My best friend’s religion was Eckenkar and when he and his parents heard my story they explained my experience in terms of their religion; other people with different cosmologies told me other explinations that reinforced their worldview. There were three points that occured to me that they should have considered:

1. It was a pure coincidence that I awoke thinking of her the night she died. Stranger things have happened.

2. I could be lying (I was telling the truth but nobody had any way of being sure; especially not sure enough to incorporate into their worldview)

3. I may have awoken thinking of her other times as well but she didn’t die those times so it was quickly forgotten.

My “psychic” experience taught me that people constantly look for evidence to reinforce their worldview. The worldview they have becomes the set of premises for everything. In the college student example religious college students might see the hand of God in biology, chemistry, and physics while non-religious students see a self-organizing orderly system that requires no outside influence to continue.

Poeple who find evidence of God in the cosmos are simply trying to find evidence of what they already believe.

After my “psychic” experience I learned that humans are not very dependable in interpreting reality; we all have our assumptions that color our interpretation. We see what we want to see. The study of the way studying science effected the religious views of students was another excample of how our worldview changes how we view everything.

“Evolution, in what you say you believe, says that we come from apes and them go through this cycles and all these processes and then it is that we became humans, if that is so, why do we born naturally humans and don’t go through that process?”

Doesn’t sound as though you were taught about evolution by anyone who knew anything about it. Individuals don’t go through evolutionary change. The changes are between generations. You are not the same as your parents. They are not the same as their parents. Apes are not the same as their parents, etc. Go back far enough and you find the same parents. We are the distant cousins of apes, and the very distant cousins of hummingbirds, roses, and seaweed.

“My point is that you have to believe in what scientists say, you have to have faith.” No you don’t. If you can muster the evidence you are welcome to challenge anything any scientist says. Just try that at church!

“Nobody is wrong to believe in what they believe.” Oh really? What about those who believe God wants them to fly airliners into skyscrapers, and will reward them with 72 virgins in Paradise?

I know a way to prove god a very easy way all you have to do is play the ouija board at night and when someone comes up just mention god and see what happens then and tell if you lived

ok, here’s how I think, this unevurse was created by God, ok if people think that the unevurse was already excisting, how did it exsist? just like that?? If God created the unevurse then we shouldn’t see him!! cause he would be bigger than that!! maybe he shines more than the sun that our eyes can pop!! how were Adam and Eve born?? I think that God created them, cause it’s not normal to just find someone in the middle of nowhere!! where is heaven? it’s somewhere outside the univurse (maybe), a place that only God knows (same as hell) God loves everyone on this planet, just like a mother when she loves her baby that she can’t live without him, when a mother tells her child to do something, and he doesn’t do it, how does she feel? same with God, he created you, and he wants you to pray for him when you need him, how do you think he would feel when you actually don’t believe he exsists?!! think about it!! can you create a human? if God was a human, then who had him?!!! and you don’t have to ask if God exsists or not! just pray your prayers, go to church, and God will be proud that one of his creatures is remembering him.

Can you see the wind ? No but you see the effects of it blowing through leaves of trees and you can hear it and feel it too. the wind is the perfect example of MY GOD. I cant see him but I feel him I hear him because he speaks to me . he healed me when no one else could help me. he healed my grandma. she literally had no heart beat when we were at the hospital and the doctor said she was dead but she was talking to me as plan as day. no one can convience me he isnt real. I feel him working in me. there’s no other feeling like it in the world. it makes you cry and you have no control but to love him and say yes to his mighty power. you believe wut you want but I know god is real.

jamdead2all, please do not allow other’s words affect you in a negative way. Look to the Lord and He will fill you with His peace and love.

He is the only way; follow HIm.

I am very thankful for the Word of God, His Holy Book, the Bible. The Bible was written by Godly men inspired by God Himself…it all fits so perfectly together, but only those who are filled with the Holy Spirit will know this.

For those who just read the Bible to find fault, you’ll never understand it nor God…

u CANT prove GOD exists!! and you cant prove god DOESNT exist…

its FAITH…whether you believe god exists or not is all upto u!

Life’s a test…I’ve said this like 1000 timesoverexaggerating=P…there’s a reason why we CANT see god…if we COULD see god then there wouldnt be a problem with which religion to follow…whatever you do is ALL upto u!

sigh …this is like beating a dead horse with ANOTHER dead horse.

Even after a year, and the thread reanimated, the score remains…

0 - Proof God exists 0 - Proof God doesn’t exist

I offer this story to you. It is true. My brother Lance and his friend Glenn were driving from Florida to California. During the time they were gone, I was sitting on our porch on a nice, balmy evening and suddenly, I felt very troubled about my brother. I started praying and suddenly, I could see a dark road in the middle of nowhere and it was pouring rain. I saw my brother’s car without its windshield wipers working and the car had veered into the other lane of traffic. Coming straight at the car was an 18 wheeler. I prayed like I had never prayed, until I felt peace in my spirit. I didn’t tell anyone, just thanked the Lord for alerting me to Lance being in trouble. About 4 days later, Lance called to say he and Glenn had arrived in LA safe and sound. Then he told me that the trip was freaky and scary. This is what he told me. “Glenn was driving and we were in Arizona or one of those western states. Anyway, it started to pour rain, it was like 10 at night in the middle of nowhere, so no place to pull off. Then the windshield wipers quit. So I open my window and reach around and manually try to get the wipers to work. It helped, but didn’t do much good. Suddenly, the wipers just kicked in - just in time for us to see we were in the wrong lane and a truck was headed right for us. Two seconds later and we would have been road kill.” There was no way for me to know what had happened to them, nor for them to know about what the Lord had shown me to pray for. I call it a miracle and am so thankful for His love and for saving my brother and Glenn’s lives that night. No scriptures, as you asked.

One other thing. I was watching a show about the universe and the guy on the show said that the chances of the exact order of the universe and the planets and human life occuring from evolution was about 10 billion to the 23rd power. This guy was a scientist. Again, no scripture. I believe we were created, that the universe was created and there is a God who put it all together. My proof is my brother’s life, my own when I was in danger and almost killed. No scripture - and a scientist who cannot find proof that evolution brought about the order of we humans or the order of the Universe. Maybe you want to believe that everything is fate or karma, but there are too many what if’s that go with those - and that I cannot answer all of the why’s of life - why do good people die, why are children murdered, etc. I don’t think we were created to answer everything. I am thankful to not have that responsiblity - and I don’t believe my faith is a crutch. It is my strength.

hey,

when you follow a religion(im muslim:))…u just listen to your heart…the doors will open up for you and the path will be straight…I dunno bout other religions much, but islam really makes you feel like that…like…like…u can turn to god for ANYTHING…and believe it or not your wish always comes true…sooner or later and also it depends on working hard for THAT wish^^…god is the ONLY one who loves you no matter what(OMGG im totally crying right now) and then when you do sumthing bad( depending on where your faith level is at that moment), you can feel that god is disappoinnted with u…I mean can you imagine someone who loves you more than anyone cud eva, being disappointed in u…it makes you feel like your worthless…lol…

anyway whoops completley off topic but…asking if you can “prove god” is just the devil whispering in your ear trying to pull you away from what the world really has to offer…questions lead to more questions and more questions which leads to confusion and soon you dont want to know or believe ANYTHING

anyway if you have any questions feel free to let me know I totally LOVE religious questionshappy

talk soon peace;) xoxo

ignore all of that. I always had trouble believing god was real I still do but someone told me this and they meant it and I could tell with all their heart that they beleieved what they said I know that sounds corny but its true they said theres no way to prove god is real, but how do you know god is real? by faith.

“You think we are perfect? We do not have the speed of a cheater, of the sight or an eagle, or the smell of a dog. We cannot fly, or breath underwater. We fit our niche in the web of life very well, but we are far from perfect”.

That would depend on what you consider perfect. I think if we are fitting our niche, then maybe we are “perfect” for that niche.

Ok, Orion. You don’t choose to believe. I do. It is my faith that gets me through my day, faith that the Lord has His hand on my son in Iraq. I can’t answer all of your questions - bad things happen to good people. And no, the abusers I had were not priests. We were not created to handle all of the things that life throws at us. You may believe you are on your own and that fate is whatever life throws at you. I choose to believe in my own frailty as a human. God loves you whether you believe in Him or not and you do have the choice to believe or not.

my moms friend died while in surgery and then was shocked back to life and lived to tell of Heaven. the book 90 minutes in heaven is a real and TRUE book. some people living today have gone to Heaven. God is real.

In reply to your question, I pose one to you. If we humans evolved and were not created, then why did the human race suddenly stop evolving? Why aren’t we continuing to evolve into even species or sub species? My answer to you is the proof of God is in the perfection of the human body and how it works, that animals also aren not continuing to evolve - again, if it’s evolution, why the stopping point? Also, there is scientific proof that around the time Jesus was crucified, strong seizmatic activity did occur - events which are documented in the Bible. I stand on my belief that God did create man, that His son did die on the cross for our sins and rose from the dead and that nature, humans, animals - we are all proof that we were created, not evovled from the primordial ooze. I also know that the human traits I want to change in myself I cannot change on my own, and yet, when I give control of them to the Lord, He changes me, calms my temper that runs in the family, has given me the ability to forgive the 3 young men who sexually abused me for a year as a young child, has kept me from becoming bitter and hateful with these men - taught me how to let go of the anger and trust in His grace, His ability to help me let it go and acutally feel not only forgiveness towards these guys that shattered my life at age 9, but feel mercy for them too, as they have expressed such strong guilt and shame about all of it. I have peace about those events in my life. I am not exceptionally good, or somehow more forgiving than anyone else. And if anyone has a right to hold anger or hatred for despricalbe acts, I do - but I didn’t want to walk around that way. My human emotions didn’t change because I “willed” them to. I gave the anger and bitterness and all of the other things I felt over to the Lord and trusted that, in time, He would heal my inner child, my psyche, my trust - so many areas. And He has healed them. We humans are not made to stand as an island with all of the answers. We need our Creator’s grace, His omnipotent wisdom in our lives. Anyone who has faced an uncertain event - cancer, the death of a loved one, loss of a job, etc - feels fear of the unknown. In these areas, I can only say, “I do not know what the future holds, but I do know WHO holds the future.”

Anyway, there is absolutely no way anybody can prove God exists (or not) to a person who doesn’t want to know Him…so you see, it is pointless to try.

Tell ya what, when and IF you do decide to find the Lord, you can ask me, K? Okay then…

Mark my words (or maybe I should say; His words) askegg, some day (very soon) you will regret saying that

People going to the Lake of Fire will not ‘burn forever’. Check out what the Bible says:

The wages of sin is death, not eternal punishing. Romans 6:23, NIV. “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

The wicked will perish. Psalm 37:20, NIV. “But the wicked will perish: The Lord’s enemies will be like the beauty of the fields, they will vanish—vanish like smoke.”

The wicked will be burned up and nothing will remain. Malachi 4:1, NIV. “Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire, says the Lord Almighty. Not a root or a branch will be left to them.”

Sodom and Gomorrah suffered eternal fire but they are not burning today. Jude 7 “In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.”

The fire will be unquenchable, but when there is nothing left to burn it will go out. Matthew 3:12, NIV. “His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will clear His threshing floor, gathering the wheat into His barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Jeremiah 17:27, NIV says, “But if you do not obey Me to keep the Sabbath day holy by not carrying any load as you come through the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day, then I will kindle an unquenchable fire in the gates of Jerusalem that will consume her fortresses.”

The entire earth will be cleansed by fire. I Peter 3:10, RSV. “And then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.”

Who is destroyed in the lake of fire? Revelation 20:15, NIV. “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”

Hell is an event not a place. It’s in the Bible, Revelation 20:9, NIV. “But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.”

The wicked will be DESTROYED. If you gave the wicked another thousand years to change, they still would not. If you put a wicked person in heaven he’d beg God to destroy him because he wouldn’t like it there.

I hope this has shed some light on this topic. God bless you.

Prove God exsist. Well first off no one can prove it to you if you dontwant to believe. Thas just human nature. were not Volcun. Secondly I do believe in someform of intellegent desines. and that there is a cosmic or highter force of intellegents. The question that I here is why would God make all this and not let his presants be known? well that answer anging is in human nature. 1 looks at a beautiful sunset and sees Gods work, another sees the light bonsing off the atmosphere at an angle cauesing the colors. either way its still beautiful some say that matmatics is the langauge in wich god created the universe. as in God said “let there be light” wich caused the chemical composistion necesary to caues light in each fashion. Another unmesurable exhibit is expireance. I’m not a christien but I’ve been touched by God in many ways. the thing is God dosent exsist becaues you believe in him, He exsist cause he believes in you. I do think that seince will one day find the only answer to all thoes questions that just caues more questions is Gods work

I’ve been asking myself the same question ,is there really a god ? if god does exist then why did he creates this unperfect world if he is so perfect … since the beginning of the human race survival for the fittest is already around , killings to survive … from animals to human kind … so is there really a god ?

curly I just tried sending you funmail, but I guess you are too young, so I am left with public communication.

Being Christian means we put God first, people second, and our selves last. In you comment you say: “… but thats not what im about. im about living a good life, and accepting my higher power as my savior, my master …”

Can you see there is too much imsifences on “I” “me”? If you put God first it should be “Jesus” “God” do you see what I’m trying to say?

Christians put Christ first not self. I, too, am wanting to live right, to live a good life in Christ. When you say “accepting “my” higher powers as “my” saviour…what does that really mean? Are you trust in yourself, not God? Is your faith based on Jesus Christ?

“In the Bible it says: ‘ Genesis 1:1, NIV. ‘In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.’” + many other biblical quotes.

And what makes the bible true? We have many holy texts, please provide evidence that yours in the inerrant word of god.

“askegg, I could go on and on because the Holy word of God, His Love-letter to His children, the Holy Bible says much about the creation of the World.”

Actually, it says very little. Genesis amounts to “In there beginning there was nothing, then god proofed it all into existence.” Ain’t that grand!

askegg said: ‘ No one can prove there is not a god, just as they cannot prove there is not a teapot in orbit’ ‘no one can prove with absolute certainty anything at all’.

Ok, if you believe the statement you made then why did you ask me to ‘Then please provide evidence that the god you believe in was the one responsible.’

Because 99.9999% certainty is pretty good.

“askegg, as a believer in our Creator, Lord Jesus Christ, I believe His word, the Holy Bible. Christians believe there is a Creator by faith.’

I know you believe that - I did to once. Problem is it is JUST a belief and cannot be backed with evidence (and on most cases even coherent logic). Objectively there is no reason to believe in Jesus over Vishnu or any other alternate god. Think about it.

“When you study the human body you will see there is no other explanation of how we came to exist than thru an intelligence; God Almighty. AMEN!”

If all complex things require a creator/designer, then god must also require a designer. Surely he is even more complex and awesome. Waving your hand in the air and saying “but god was always there” does not make it true - how could you tell the difference between a universe that was always here (and more probable because it’s simpler) and a universe created by an omnipresent being (please provide evidence god is actually omnipresent).

“Please do not be blinded by Satan and his lies. Open your heart to God today and receive Him into your heart.”

Satan doesn’t exist. If he did, god would love him just as much as he loves everything else and forgive him - yes? Why does god continue the charade? What is your answer to this conundrum?

Orion, askegg said ‘Tell me how you can tell the difference between an eternal universe verses one made by a god. Then please provide evidence that the god you believe in was the one responsible.’

BUT…everything that you just stated is based on your bible. Which technicaly is not a fact because that might be totaly different in another bible/religion.

The bottom line is that religions exist in hundreds and they are like rival gangs one has to be right and better that another. I think that god is your faith like your faith can be a pencil or a ring. You depend on your faith and you feel like you can accomplish more by it.

askegg,

You have proven to all that you are an atheist and a bitter one at that. What do you expect to accomplish with your comments of disrespect toward God the Creator? Don’t you realize that Christians will be offended by your attacks on Jesus and His Holy Word, the Bible? So, if you are trying to gain converts into atheistism it won’t work.

Any true follower of God won’t give Him up to follow another spirit. If the spirit is not God then who do you think is the other? There are only two spirits; Good and evil, God and Satan.

When you decide not to believe in God, then by default you choose Satan.

You are on your own now Bub, because I’m done talking with you too. If you want to keep your mind shut like a steal trap then so be it. It’s your choice (freedom to choose by God).

I would NOT want to be in your shoes when Jesus returns!

im not going to hell ASKEGG and there is one hell one HEAVEN and one GOD and now you really did it sayin that I was going to hell which im not and please stop sayin this crap or else I’ll start arguin back!

Perhaps you are headed for Allah’s hell, or any one of the other god’s who love to punish unbelievers? Maybe there is only one god, and he really is fussy about what people eat, wear, and say. Perhaps he really wants you to pray 5 times a day and face Mecca. Maybe you should abstain from eating pork, just in case. Or stop eating during daylight hours for a month.

Modern Christianity has almost managed to strip away the barbaric acts and attitudes of the bible leaving “be nice to each other”, which is a great idea. But it still manages to hang onto to “believe in me or face eternal damnation”.

Teachel - you can always uncheck the box that says “Email me when this topic gets updated.” If you don’t want to take part in these discussion - then don’t. Don’t whinge because people disagree.

Let me get this straight.

You believe your all power god is coming to wipe out the entire world and judge us all with his unconditional love, casting sinners and disbelievers into hell for eternity. Probably within your lifetime no doubt.

Sound to me like an apocalyptic death cult - and I want no part of it.

You are so into this ‘hate God’ thing that you are allowing it to blind you to what’s really happening around you and in our world.

Why don’t you give it a rest (your hatred for God) and take some time to reconnect to the events.

Bedtime for sure!

You are so far out in left field you don’t know which end is up!

I am not “cornered” by you or anybody else, but if it makes you feel better I’ll allow you to think that.

If you go back and reread my comments you’ll see my answers to your inquires. There is no reason to re answer when you have failed to understand. If you cannot understand my answers, I’ll gladly make them simpler for you.

The NWO is very much happening and for you (or anybody for that matter) not to see it (blinders) it is disheartening. It is ‘in your face’ information and only those who are seeking answers to what’s going on in our world will see it. Too bad though, I thought maybe you were more ‘in tune’ more on-the-ball with what’s going on around you. Oh well, very sad.

On the contrary, I don’t feel helpless nor chaotic . . . as you surmised. It is liberating to know and understand our world and what’s going on so I can be prepared when it all goes down, which it will and soon. Then what will you do when it does? Hold up your hands and shout “the sky is falling, the sky is falling?” By then it’ll be too late.

I’d rather be me than someone who tosses this off as “a conspiracy theory on steroids.”

I pray earnestly that you come to your senses before it is too late for you.

Bedtime for Bonzo.

Hey fuzz ball, take a look at this bit of info then tell me what you think about our world and God!

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=4PpMdTmVMpo

AND I have answered your nieve questions, you just don’t let it sink in

“Look…Andrew, if you want to continue looking for every little reason to hate God you’ll be able to find millions of them and then when you are done making them up you can listen to those who hate Him and get all new reasons to hate Him some more”

I hate god as much as I hate Santa Claus, which is not at all. How could you hate something that doesn’t exist? What I do hate is dishonesty (especially when people are dishonest with themselves) and wilful ignorance.

“…nobody can prove to someone else that God exists. Reason? Because God is personal.”

…and back to my first comment - almost ever religion that ever was uses personal feelings to justify belief in whatever god takes their fancy. So the thought of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent being who will look after when you die makes you feel good - great! Doesn’t make it true though.

It is interesting to note that you have not actually answered any of the questions I raise, or even attempt to address them. I wonder why that is? Perhaps it’s because deep down you know the answers and are fully aware of their implications. Your entire fragile belief system is prone to total collapse by the merest hint of logic, evidence, or proof of any kind. Lest your world come tumbling down you must protect the warm and fuzzy feeling you get at all costs.

Fine, just don’t expect me to share you delusion. I once did and now I am free from the insane ramblings of ignorant men in a the desert of another country 2,000 years ago. They were had even less idea about how the universe works than our lest educated people today, but they “knew” all about prophecy, signs from god, miracles and messiahs.

I guess since we have now come full circle we can cease this discussion.

“Thomas,”

My name is Andrew, but I don’t expect the facts to get in your way. Unless you are being clever and branding me with as “doubting Thomas”.

“I am sorry that you feel hatred toward our Creator, God Almighty, but you do have Him wrong and you’ve twisted scripture to fit your anger and hatred in Him”

How should I interpret “stone them to death”? It seems pretty straight forward to me.

“God did not create evil. He created every being and blessed them with freedom of choice. “

Apparently god created EVERYTHING, which would include evil. If he did not directly create evil, he did so via freewill with full knowledge (being omniscient is a b*tch). Anyway, why is freewill more important than our eternal souls. Moreover, to an ALL KNOWING god we are nothing but the simplest of machines - trivial to predict. Yet god went ahead and created evil and free will - where is the love?

“Lucifer was the highest ranking angel in heaven, but grew jealous, full of vanity and anger. He wanted to be Jesus. He wanted to be better than his Creator”

Then why did god create Lucifer?

“God can most assuredly remove every bit of sin that earth and it’s inhabitance suffer from daily, but then if He did He would have robots; following His every whim.”

Your god is either powerless to stop it, didn’t know it was going to happen, or doesn’t care. Which is it?

“There is only ONE truth; ONE God.”

So you say. Got any proof? Maybe Lucifer and Yahweh are two god battling for our souls? How would you know? Besides, you almost have three gods in one with the trinity, or is it one god in three - I get confused.

“This guy said these blasphemous things against God and made Him out to be a sadistic, murderous, villain who derives great pleasure in our suffering and pain!”

“This guy” is me.

If god did indeed create everything, then he created evil. If he knows everything, then he willingly sends billions of people to hell for not believing in him - how vain - one of the seven deadly sins no doubt!

“If those who have not chosen God before probation closes will be lost for all eternity and destroyed”

All loving?

“The reason is because God is pure light, pure perfection, pure love “

Then why did he create pure evil? Is it not in his power to remove evil from the universe? Why is free will more important than our eternal souls?

“It takes faith to believe in Him.”

FAITH is believe without evidence (or in some cases to spite it). Why shouldn’t I have faith in Allah, Vishnu, or Xenu?

Ok askegg, I watched the video you asked me to and frankly it made me sick.

This guy said these blasphemous things against God and made Him out to be a sadistic, murderous, villain who derives great pleasure in our suffering and pain!

This person portrayed God in the most demeaning way possible using His Holy Bible, His Holy Words against HIM! Thomas (?) took those Bible verses out of context and twisted their meaning to convince all who read his poisonous words that God was horrible when God is pure love.

If he had read the Bible with an open heart seeking God and His wisdom then he could never had said these lies about God. It is very apparent that Thomas was never converted, never was a Christian, but follows a different spirit.

Do NOT listen to me, Do NOT listen to this Thomas or anybody else. Study the Bible for yourself. But before you do you must first place yourself in God’s hands so He can teach you by the Holy Spirit.

If you are a truth-seeker you will find Him. If you want to find fault, as did Thomas then you will; just as Thomas did by twisting God’s words and making Him out to be a monster!

Be true to your own heart. Seek His face. Don’t stop until you know who He is. He lives inside us all and is knocking on your heart’s door. If you open it He will come in and save you, but you have to desire it more than anything.

Time on this planet is coming to an end. If those who have not chosen God before probation closes will be lost for all eternity and destroyed. The ones who have delayed their search for Him and lived a life of carefree indulgences will choose to follow the deceiver by default.

You may ask, ‘why does God destroy those who refuse to follow Him.’ The reason is because God is pure light, pure perfection, pure love . . . and when He comes to take His children to heaven, those who have chosen not to follow Him and accept Him as their God, will automatically be destroyed with the brightness of His being because sin cannot live with pure goodness.

Don’t be one of them. Study as you’ve never studied before. Seek Him while He can still be found. Time is quickly coming to an end as we know it.

There are a hundred or maybe even a thousand (or more) non-Christian to one true Christian in these last days. That is why it is so very, very important that you seek Him for yourself, not letting anybody tell you what to believe or persuade you into their point of view or belief.

I will pray for you to know God. Pray on your knees, pouring out your heart to Him. Ask Him for His forgiveness and ask Him to be your King. Ask Him to lead and guide you, and He will. All you have to do is ask, believe, and claim, then follow Him.

God bless you.

PS. Ask, Believe, Claim are the ABC’s of faith. It takes faith to believe in Him.

How can a god be “personal” if he created everything, watches over everything, is IN everything, and is working to an ultimate plan.

You have no idea of my history - I suggest you watch this: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=2HWVkS2g7xo

If you still think I did not try to “have a personal relationship with Jesus”, then you are guilty of the false Scotsman fallacy.

If your asking how effective your arguments to prove the existence of god have been I must say - “Not at all”.

I am glad to discuss the points you raise, but only if you are going to be honest about the arguments presented. If you cannot determine there is a god using logic, rational thinking, or (heaven forbid) evidence, then admit it.

You can certainly retreat to “it’s just a matter of faith”, but there are reasons to dismiss this as well.

“… how in the world can you think Godis ‘sexy’ ??? That to me is almost blaspheme (sic)”

Thought crime? Blasphemy (note the correct spelling) is a victimless crime.

“imagine if you told tha world that the computer that am using came to existence on its own!do you think even a 3 year old wud believe U?the most complex thing is the human brain that created this piece of technology..n if this brain wasnt engineered then Hu did it?”

Let’s use your logic and continue on that train. If the human brain is SO complex it MUST have been designed, then surely the designer MUST BE even more complex and require a designer himself? Where does it end? You could wave your hands in the air and say that “god was always there”, but that makes as much sense as “the human brain was always there”. Why complicate the matter further by adding an infinite regression god to the equation?

“ok, 4 all those who dont believe, u’ll be sorry”

Ohhh - I am so scared of you “all loving” god.

“I hope God takes pity on u,”

The god of Abraham won’t take pity - unbelievers are destined for an eternity in hell for the mere crime of disbelief in the face of non existent evidence.

“what about the wind? when you can prove the wind doesnt exist”

Yes you can. You can physically feel it You can measure it speed and direction. You can see it’s effects on everything around it. You can capture it in a jar and run tests on its composition.

“you may be able 2 prove that God doesnt exsists”

Sure, that’s easy - there is no evidence whatsoever that any god created everything from nothing, or that an invisible, all powerful man watches everything you do, or you will live forever after you die.

“ … because God exsists point blank.”

You confuse belief with knowledge.

“all you people who dont believe are in 4 a shock when you die, just warning u.”

Wish I could say the same for you, but when you die you stop working. The only way you can live forever is through your children and by the mark you leave in the world.

I always wonder why people bring this up. Physicallly, no, I cannot prove he exists, just as you spiritually cannot prove he does not. For the person who believes in God, sees his handiwork in everything around him, and does not need to physically touch him. I do not need to use any bible verse or scripture to show you that. The fact that you believe in him internally is no that suprising. Western, as well as eastern religions have a mindset that says God lives within us, so feeling him in us, or feeling that he lives in each of us is not such a stretch. According to the Bible, our bodies are supposed to be vessels for him, anyway.

onilink222 said: “Answered by onilink222 on Jul 04, 2007, 01:08PM Add me as a friend | Send me Fun Mail | 4 answers. umm.. God is Sexy. What else do you want. Say prayers (reasonable ones) and you will find god in everything good you see. My sandwich also tastes yummy.”

I just wanted to say that God is our Creator, our Father, Lifegiver. . . how in the world can you think Godis “sexy” ??? That to me is almost blaspheme.

God kept Himself pure. He never had sex. He came here with only one thing on His heart; He came to save His children from their sins.

Please THINK about what you say about our Creator and do not lower His greatness to your level.

A gentleman named Thomas Huxley came up with the idea that ultimate truths (such as the literal existance of God) are unknowable/unprovable because of our own limitations. He called this idea agnosticism.

Your god is more like Eastern religions. In Judeo/Christian/Islam man is divorced from God because of sin and must seek God outside one’s self. In Eastern religions god is in everyone and we must awaken to the god within.

I don’t believe in a literal god. I sometimes view god as a metaphor. From my viewpoint Eastern religions are somewhat more attractive to me since the metaphor of and internal god works better than an external one.

denisemc, God was not created, He IS the Creator. It all started with Him. God has always been and will forever live throughout eternity.

You either believe or not. Believing takes faith. If you don’t have it, you don’t have God.

I hope this helps

8ball: God is not a “myth” He is real, as real as the stars and the moon (which He created). Just because someone does not believe in Him does not mean He isn’t real. He is real even though you choose not to believe in Him.

“Proof is all around us. Proof is in every butterfly, every orchid, every example of flora and fauna that exists now or has ever existed on this Earth”

OR

Proof is all around us. Proof is in every salmonella bacteria , every cancerous growth, every example of disease and pain that exists now or has ever existed on this Earth.

Gotta take the good with the bad - right?

“If you take every step of the debate from the big bang on, the scientific explanation is ‘we dont know. If you include an outside force (God) into the equation it makes perfect sense”

Sure, but you should be honest and ask where did god come from. Waving your hand in the air and saying “god was always there” is pretty poor. If the universe is So complex it requires a creator, then surely god must require a creator cause he’s even more awesome and complex. Where do you draw the line? How do you escape from this infinite regression? It’s turtles all the way down!

A few years back I asked the same question you did. And this is what I did. I pretty much prayed, ‘God if youre real then reveal yourself to me.’ I just waited…Not even a month later I was learning a lot of really cool stuff like how the world began and moral law…For example…Picture looking down at our universe, and imagine erasing everything one at a time, til you get to the very last thing you see…Now erase that. Where did it come from? did it come from nothing??? or did it come from something?…The Big Boom or did something create it??? If you read in the bible youll also learn about all the prophecies. And still today they are still happening. I’ll try to remember some of them off the top of my head…such as Jesus said that when he comes back again to take us to heaven that everyone will see Him. And we always think, Well how could everyone in the world see him at the same time??? THink about the technology that is out there today…We have internet and television. As soon as something is happening somewhere in the world everyone knows about it!! Its crazy! Also think of this too…Whenever people read the bible they think that it just happened one event right after the other. But actually the bible is based off of different events over thousands of years in the making. and they were on scrolls not just in books in so many different places all over the world. And guess what these events were about??…God…One being. Not of many gods but just one being…THese stories were all about the same thing…God…and how he sent his Son to save us. Oh yeah and another cool fact! Do you know the story about Noah’s Ark? if you dont a good movie that raps it up for you is Evan Almighty hahaa its not exactly what the bible says but it gets the just of it. Well today if you go up to the top of a mountain and dig youll find fossils but not of mammals but of fish. And I know youll say O but that was millions of years ago…Actually I dont believe that the world is that old…I believe its only thousands of years old… You know how you can look deep in a cave and find those deep humps and scientists say that it take thousands and thousands of years to form those things(sorry forgot the word)…Well in a broken down underground subway(I think thats what theyre called) in the carts those same huge humps are growing there. and Im pretty sure thousands of years ago subways didnt exist. I hope I make since of all this… sorry if I dont…Im trying. But there is so much more to learn about our world and how God designed it and has every play in it. I definitely believe with all my heart mind and soul there is a God. ANd he loves us more than anything he has ever created…even for the ones who doesnt believe in him. Him bringing his son to earth to die for us just shows how much he loves us and how he would do anything to have us with him.

A. Skegg: Did you see the video I asked if I could send you the link? That same Christ introduces Himself to you every second of every day. And you do get to anything you like.

God waters all seed that is intended for His Glory.

If someone were to anoint the door frame to your house with oil and pray that God would protect you from all wickedness, that you would be delivered from questionable faith and by doing so in Jesus Name how would you know they didn’t?

No person on this planet can prove to someone else that God exists. It is for each person to seek Him if they want to find Him.

If you really desire to know if God is real, do the work yourself. Don’t try to get others to do it for you, because it just doesn’t work that way.

It does no good to argue back and forth with those who like to argue … to show others what they admiringly believe is their keen wit and intelligence. But what really is (sadly) boastful pride and self adoration.

God knows who His children are and those who do not believe in Him. All God asks Christians to do is tell others about Him and if they do not accept Him, then to shake the dust off our feet and move on.

I have found time after time that trying to tell people about God who are not the least bit interested in Him is a big waste of time. So Christians, what do you say we shake the dust off our feet and move on to those who are TRULY searching for the Lord.

I will pray for you askegg and the rest of you who just want to argue…but my time is needed elsewhere…

Okey Dokey…looks like this post is almost a year old. LOL! Looks like I’m late again.

From my perspective, nobody can prove to someone else that God exists. Reason? Because God is personal. If you are a “truth-seeker” then you will find Him, but if you are waiting for someone to prove His existance to you, it’ll never happen.

He is knocking on your heart’s door. If you open it and ask Him to come in, He will. And then you’ll have your proof. God bless you.

“There is no other book on earth that has had the same meaning for 4500 years, that it has never changed, t”

The Muslims claim the Quran has not changed, but it’s not nearly as old. There are also much older texts in existence than the bible, or is the fact it is apparently unchanging that makes it true?

Anyway - which version of the bible is unchanging? The Amplified Bible, Bible in Basic, English, Children’s Bible , Contemporary English Version, God’s Word, King James Version, Message Bible, Net Bible, New American Bible (Catholic), New English Translation, New International Version, New International Reader’s Version, New King James Version, New Living Translation New Revised Standard Version, Revised Standard Version, Young’s Literal Translation, World English Bible (Hebrew Names Version), or the Wycliffe New Testament version?

“that it was written over a period of 1500 years,”

So it’s true because much of it was written years after the event? How could this be an accurate record?

“ and is still the best seller of all time. “

Popularity does not mean true. In any case, the bible is mostly given away rather than sold. There is one is almost every hotel I visit, and they have all been donated.

“The Bible proves God was and is and is to come.”

I asked you what proves the god, and you answered the bible. I ask you what proves the bible and you answer god. See a problem here?

“It is about one life and everything around Him: Christ.”

Over half the book has absolutely nothing to do with Christ, and the NT does not deal only with his life. Tell me again how “its all about Jesus”?

“The Bible proves itself to be of God.”

..and god proves himself via the bible? Intellectual black holes of this sort are fast draining the light from our world.

“Much prophecy was written hundreds of years before the event”

OR the character and myth of Jesus was created to fulfil earlier prophecies. Which is the more likely scenario?

“…the blood of Christ still covers all unrighteousness.”

Eww, gross. Told you Christianity was a bloody death cult.

“Those who refuse, exemplify their unworthiness.”

All other religions make the same baseless claims.

“I know the end and it is glorious!”

Yeah - Jesus rides into town after the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse and kills everyone. Those who are not worthy are tortured for eternity in hell. Ahh - the burning souls your all loving god throws into the pits of despair warm my heart.

this is really long! wow!!! okay personally, I dont care who you believe in, okay, as long as you beieve in something and have something/someone to pray to. me, I am christian, I put my faith in God, and I know some people would argue that my faith isnt true because if it were, I would try to convert others to christianity, but thats not what im about. im about living a good life, and accepting my higher power as my savior, my master. to accept him as a teacher, so I can learn to be a good person and share being a good person and living a good life.

so I only have 8 words, other than those said above, to say to you:

Can you prove that he does not exsist?

The Bible says that God uses the foolish of things of this world to confound the wise. Who is more wise than those looking for “proof” of how life began, the end of the universe, or “proof” that God exists. The wise are confounded or confused because they use the carnal mind and God is not carnal, but Spiritual. That’ all there is to it. If you really want the answers then seek agape’.

only fools dont belive in god. and those who are full of themselves. got is real do you really think this world started with a bang do you really belive we are here because of evolution and ancitry developement no. we are all created with thought and individualism.

“So it’s true because much of it was written years after the event? How could this be an accurate record?”

Much prophecy was written hundreds of years before the event!

The whole Book is surrounded by Christ’s life. It is not a bunch of stories, it is the story of Christ. What is hidden in the Old Testament is revealed in the New.

You see the passion I have for others to know Him? If not, the blood of Christ still covers all unrighteousness.

Those who refuse, exemplify their unworthiness.

I know those who choose to go around and around here have a passion to make sure the only God is known to all who come by for a visit.

I have seen the light and it shines bright.

I know the end and it is glorious!

Is that the ONLY argument you’ve got? And for a thread that’s almost a year old…

The score remains…

0 - Proof God exists 0 - Proof God doesn’t exist

lilt201091 stfu he is so real I mean everytime dan smokes pot they talk and yeah I agree he is not real you will never see him its to do with do you want something to believe in I mean if so believe that you can get a g/f

‘Being Christian means we put God first, people second, and our selves last’

askegg said: “Ignoring how you determine what any individual considers to god’s will, the traits of altruism and selfless acts is a noble one. .”

There is only One God. People worship many gods, money, food, buddah…but they are false. The only one true God is the Creator, Jesus Christ. I say this by faith in Him and His Holy Bible and personal experiences with Him.

askegg said: “Many people manage these things without believing in a supernatural power - take the two richest people in the world as good examples of this”

Yes, egg I agree that there are many ‘well-meaning’ people in the world, many ‘do-gooders’ but just being a giving person does not mean they’ll be in heaven. God asks us to keep His laws and follow Him. If people give and do good, but do not have faith to follow God’s laws..they will not be in heaven.

‘God was not created, He IS the Creator. It all started with Him. God has always been and will forever live throughout eternity’

askegg said “Tell me how you can tell the difference between an eternal universe verses one made by a god. Then please provide evidence that the god you believe in was the one responsible.”

In the Bible it says: “ Genesis 1:1, NIV. “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”

and…”Psalm 19:1, NIV. “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands.”

and…” Romans 1:20, NIV. “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.”

and…”Psalm 33:6,9, NIV. “By the word of the Lord were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth. For He spoke, and it came to be; He commanded, and it stood firm.”

and…God created the world in six literal days. It’s in the Bible, Exodus 20:11, NIV. “For in six days the Lord made the heaven and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but He rested the seventh-day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.”

and…Colossians 1:16, NIV. “For by Him [the Son] all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him.” John 1:3, NIV. “Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.”

and…Isaiah 45:18, NIV. “For this is what the Lord says—He who created the heavens, He is God; He who fashioned and made the earth, He founded it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—He says: ‘I am the Lord, and there is no other.”

askegg, I could go on and on because the Holy word of God, His Love-letter to His children, the Holy Bible says much about the creation of the World.

askegg said: “ No one can prove there is not a god, just as they cannot prove there is not a teapot in orbit” “no one can prove with absolute certainty anything at all”.

Ok, if you believe the statement you made then why did you ask me to “Then please provide evidence that the god you believe in was the one responsible.”

askegg, as a believer in our Creator, Lord Jesus Christ, I believe His word, the Holy Bible. Christians believe there is a Creator by faith.

When you study the human body you will see there is no other explanation of how we came to exist than thru an intelligence; God Almighty. AMEN!

Please do not be blinded by Satan and his lies. Open your heart to God today and receive Him into your heart.

Whose existence?

Yahweh, Allah, Vishnu, Xenu, or Zeus, etc?
Perhaps the voice you hear is just in your head?

I see you are not willing to even attempt an answer to any of my questions. I guess the stark light of reality crumbles your beliefs. The slightest element of evidence required for all other endeavours in life are toxic to faith.

There is a positive test for you. A physical challenge if you will. Take a pocket watch. Gather all the necessary components, springs etc. Put them into a box with a closed lid. Now, shake them around and see how long it takes for the watch to work in perfect order and on time. The point is, that the watch much like the world we live in has a “designer”. We all didn’t evolve from apes or a pool of lightning struck sludge millions of years ago. We, ourselves and all other forms of life were created by God. Plant life, snow flakes, etcetera have been made by a Designer. Much like a watch or a building has a desginer. Man in his constant quest to live his own way chooses to ignore and disobey the One who made them and loves them. Everyone has an eternal spirit within and when the appointed time comes God will reveal Himself in an unmistakable way. We just have to be willing to hear His call. Usually without great fanfare but in the quiteness of your heart. If you seek Him with all your heart He will reveal Himself to you. Hope this helps. If you are wondering, yes I am a Christian.

If you take every step of the debate from the big bang on, the scientific explanation is “we dont know. If you include an outside force (God) into the equation it makes perfect sense. But… Our intellectual brothers would have to concede that there is someone or something out there that actually does know what it is doing. Instead of polluting and destroying everything it touches. Since they believe we are most intellectually advanced beings out there, that is just absurd.

Proof is all around us. Proof is in every butterfly, every orchid, every example of flora and fauna that exists now or has ever existed on this Earth. Evolutionists have spoiled the concept of ‘proof’ with their defiant uninformed heart-and-soul dive into Darwin’s Theory. They forever marred the credibility of science through their “Educated Ignorance”. Science is a discipline of observation and duplication; nothing more. They removed it from a respected art form and reduced it to little more than a tool for speculation, by cramming it down everyone’s throat on the basis of observation alone. Because they have taken the discipline of science, which is a valid means to gain knowledge, and perverted its purpose, by using observation only, and calling that Science, and using the legal system as legitimate proof that God does not exist: they have forever removed the credibility of the word “proof”. Because of these ‘educated idiots’ we can only show ‘evidence’. Proof has been proven to be unreliable.

When anyone asks a question like this, inevitably there will be some who try writing a thesis and I doubt if this is what you are looking for as an answer. The answer is simply NO. God cannot be proven scientifically and you can’t intellectually force scientists to recognize God. Neither can scientists prove God doesn’t exist. It’s impossible to prove a negative. However here’s a question for you to ponder; “why is there anything at all and not simply nothing?” Science can’t answer that. If you have the necessary knowledge and intelligence, I suggest you read the book by Hans Kung called, “Does God Exist”. It’s a difficult read and isn’t meant to be read by the uneducated laity. You also will not be able to read it in a few days and comprehend everything you’ve read but I believe the book will answer all of your questions.

“God was not created, He IS the Creator. It all started with Him. God has always been and will forever live throughout eternity”

Tell me how you can tell the difference between an eternal universe verses one made by a god. Then please provide evidence that the god you believe in was the one responsible.

“Can you prove that he does not exsist?” (sic)

No one can prove there is not a god, just as they cannot prove there is not a teapot in orbit around the sun near Jupiter or any other notion that crosses your mind.

On the flip side, no one can prove with absolute certainty anything at all. There is a possibility that gravity will reverse itself tomorrow morning, but the odds (given past experience) seem extraordinarily small.

“I dont care who you believe in, okay, as long as you beieve in something and have something/someone to pray to..”

Let me rephrase that slightly - “As long as we pray to something you don’t mind”. What if I choose to pray to nothing at all?

“ I am christian, I put my faith in God,”

Meaning you put your faith in the Christian god over all the other possible gods to worship.

“Being Christian means we put God first, people second, and our selves last”

Ignoring how you determine what any individual considers to god’s will, the traits of altruism and selfless acts is a noble one. Many people manage these things without believing in a supernatural power - take the two richest people in the world as good examples of this.

not 1 person can prove that God is real or not real. He is simply a belief to put us at ease if a loved one has passed away. We know that He will do His best to take care of them. each person needs to believe for themselves. it is not a matter of real or not real it is a matter or belief or not belief.

simply, you can’t prove god exists, you can’t prove god does not exist. ‘coolcatcarly’, to be blunt, why would I want to believe in a ‘god’ who kills people just because they don’t follow a religion. didn’t this ‘god’ allow free choice in humans? isn’t ot slightly hypocritical then that he would kill somone for allowing this use of free choice? ‘markanderson’, there are so many other explanations for how the universe was created, how people came into existence, evolution, and all that jazz. religion is man made and im a cynical cow

Nothing can be proven either way. Darwin saw the finches of the Galapagos and wrote a book about how life ‘evolved’ from non-life. For decades science proved Darwin was right. Now that same science has proved him wrong. All we can do is give evidence. In science a major test of evidence being correct or not is the test of time.

For 4,000 years more or less, the evidence of God’s existence, has been accepted in the religious writings of the world. In it is stated that life was ‘created’ whole and intact, with everything provided to procreate accordingly. For the entire 4,000 years this tenet has been intact and unchanged. This in itself is quite a test of validity.

    The sciences that have set out to disprove the existence of God, by showing that life on earth today is the result of slow, steady changes over millions of years from inorganic (non-living) elements; have in fact disproved their own “Theory”.  The fossil evidence of the Cambrian “explosion” (of Canada and China and others) shows fully developed animals representing fifty phyla; (more phyla than are available today) all with fully formed and functioning body parts, and  some with fully functioning eyes.  Immediately under this Cambrian explosion is fossil evidence of one-celled animals.  There is absolutely no evidence of intermediate life forms leading up to these Cambrian fossils.

The prominent British evolutionist Richard Dawkins, who studied the Cambrian fossils, stated that they seemed to be planted there without any evolutionary history. Enough evidence was amassed, to show that life did not evolve slowly, and the original Darwinian theory of evolution was abandoned by all but a few die hard scientists for a new ‘concept’ or theory called Punctuated Equilibrium. PE as it is called says that for a very long time nothing happened to the species of earth, they remained essentially unchanged, evolution as Darwin explained it did not occur, then for some currently unexplainable reason, old species gave way to new species that were whole and intact, with everything provided to procreate accordingly. This is exactly how the ‘word of God’ said it happened. In less than two hundred years the ‘science’ explanation of how life got here on earth has been abandoned and the Biblical explanation has been accepted, but given a different (“scientific”) name.

From a purely scientific point of view the religious explanation has so far withstood the test of time, while the scientific explanation has not. Therefore the evidence for the existence of God is better than the alternatives shown.

There is NO way that you can prove that there is a God. But I know that I believe that there is a God. There is not way that I can even try to explain it without uing the Bible.

Yes, actually you CAN see the wind…just not with the naked eye. Like a scent humans can’t detect, but dogs can. Everything around us is made up of ATOMS, but even if you look at atoms with a powerful microscope, matter takes up a very small amount of space, and that matter has a habit of disappearing and re-appearing. At the time when the Bible was written, people belived in all sorts of things, which over time have been shown to be completely misguided. So if history is anything to go by, much of what we belive now, in 100-1000 years will be laughed about. Much like the fairy tales written in the bible, and the divisions of human beliefs about who’s right & who is wrong - who’s going to hell & who won’t…it’s pathetic & just causes more death & destruction than anything else on this planet…oh apart from man himself, who apparently is in GODS own image. We all know what is right & what is wrong, but how do you explain all the evil that comes from WITHIN church institutions?? You can read all about that too. Humans pollute, war against one another, etc, etc. If GOD is anything, he’s probably a Dolphin looking character, shaking its pointy nose at us all!!! Sun,Water, Gravity & the Elements…our true creators.

Every Christians answer… ask some of your paedophile Priests what EVIL is. By the way GOD didn’t write the bible!!! Humans did!!! Nice fairy tales though. Oh I am sooo evil, I can feel the urges overcoming me now. Funny…I don’t smoke, drink or take drugs…I teach children non-violent self defence, help people where I can, yes…I’m suuure goin to hell!! I just won’t be apart of something that causes more hatred & war than anything else on this planet…but you can amblessed…your my hero. I’m sure Jesus was a nice fella, but sorry…Mary & Joseph were his parents…not some imaginary figure. YOU NEED SPERM TO HAVE BABIES!!! Back then if you said the Earth was flat, you’d be nailed to a cross too. But you can believe something thats 2000 years old…you obviously need something to believe in, since your life is so EMPTY without it.

The correct answer is no. Any other response is ludicrous. Faith is just as worthless. If I suddenly had faith that my house was sitting above a gold deposit, the chances it is would be unchanged. Humans created gods. Any person praying to Allah, God, Zeus or the Flying Spaghetti Monster is wrong or misguided.

All this doesn’t mean there are no gods, there is a possibility of anything. If there are gods, they have shown no evidence for their existence.

If you’re looking for evidence of one, all you have are books written by humans about a God or gods. Otherwise you can only assume there aren’t any.

I asked the same exact question in my mother’s church, well the one she attends. It was a while back so i forgot most of what they said but i know that to God is real. You know this by FAITH. You’re supposed to believe in him, because that same way he believes in you. [[melthecynic]] i’m not saying your wrong because everybody has their different beliefs, but at that same point you are no one to say about those who believe in God. Evolution, in what you say you believe, says that we come from apes and them go through this cycles and all these processes and then it is that we became humans, if that is so, why do we born naturally humans and don’t go through that process? My point is that you have to believe in what scientists say, you have to have faith. Such as there are us who have faith in God. Nobody is wrong to believe in what they believe. You have your own freedom of choice. And people do not die because they sin. It just means that it was their time. There are millions of religious people whom have died before sinners, so your comment just doesn’t make sense. I hope i helped you in any way. I have a wonderful relationship with my mother and i believe that God has lead my way to that. My mother is a christian woman and she’s been leading me to her beliefs and so far they make sense. Take care and i hope you answer all doubts. LOTS OF LUCK, GOD BLESS <3

when you look at yourself in the mirror you see gods creation when you see different people on the street you see god when you see the animals that roam the earth you see god! when you make a choice in life that does not sit right and you feel that choice turning inside your feeling god! when you hear your higher self either affirming or disagreeing with a situation in your life you are connecting with the soul that speaks to god! x x x x x x x x

When I was a young child, I looked in the sky and seemed to have had a comfort and assurance to what all I’d heard in Sunday School and Church was true. I gave my life over to God, his son and holy spirit. I live my life according to the word, through adversity, calamity, pain, sorrow and all the other misery in this life. Several years later, I had a serious surgery, and died 2 times within a week. I have memories of things I saw and heard on “the other side”, which is not exactly what I’ve heard others with the same experience tell. However, what I did see and hear is not earthly nor human and what people do tell about the experience is their personal human outlook. From that point on, my faith is so strong, I never wonder if there really isn’t a God. T each his own. Some other humans believe me, some don’t. They call those like me names, laugh, joke around… So what. If you don’t want to believe and live your life as such, you will be the one to deal with whatever comes your way, not me. Some neighbors were talking about a poor man across town, who doesn’t have a phone, electricity, water, checking account… so in reality, they cannot prove he exists.Do you think he does? If someone told you a house was haunted, you aren’t going to believe it until you get in there and see for yourself, are you? You might not believe in a God until you get involved with him and other followers, then you will know, HE IS THERE!

You can’t prove a negative, i.e. that God doesn’t exist and God cannot be put to scientific test. If he could he wouldn’t be God would he? But here’s a better question for all of you skeptics to ponder; “Why is there something instead of just nothing”?

I do not believe God can be proven to exist, except by Descartes reasoning: I know that I exist, since I must exist to be able to think. (That’s the origin of “I think, therefore I am.”)

If I exist, why? Ultimately, there must be a reason that creation exists. That implies a creator.

Now, if the creator and creation exist, then history seems consistent, unless God is a liar (and I for sure don’t want to go there..). Next, use C.S. Lewis’s argument: if a caring, creative God did exist, how would he act? The Bible is just the right sort of history to tell the story of such a God. And, if the Bible is true, the Catholic Church, which reaches back to that history, is also true. And, then, all the rest follows.

But note: this “proof” relies at various points on a faith response. At some point, you must postulate God (or the logical equivalent) or deny God, and build your life on the result. Can you prove God? I don’t think it is easy or quick. But it’s a lot harder to consistently deny God.

Before I start, You CAN”T prove GOD! You are supposed to trust him and just believe he’s there. It’s easier to do when you are with a group of people who love GOD too! Trust me it’s not easy believing in something thats not there, i’ve been there, but then i started praying, asking for guidance, yah know stuff you can’t talk about with other people. The thing is you just have to KNOW GODS there, it’s confusing and on earth we may never understand, but are we really supposed to have all the answers??

Sorry - I must have missed the answer to “who created Lucifer”, or “how should I interpret ‘stone them to death’”. Seems the only answers you have are “god did it” and “it’s a personal thing”.

When cornered the true Christian comes out with vitriol.

The NWO is a conspiracy theory on steroids. So you feel helpless. So everything seems chaotic or against you. So things don’t seem to make sense. So what? Whenever billions of people gather on one planet, all trying to grapple with survival and the meaning of life things tend to get a little crazy. Get over it.

This is an old question…Wow, and people are still answering it, or trying. So, here’s my 2 cents worth… There is no way that anyone can prove there is a God and there’s no way that anyone can prove there isn’t a God.

Yeah funadvice, what you are talking about is ‘sun worship’ which many pagans did long ago. The papal power allowed pagans to join the church by marching them thru the river and announcing that now they were Christians on the other side.

The papal power and Emperor Constantine changed the day of worship in 321 AD from Sabbath, Saturday to the first day of the week, Sunday to accommodate the pagan’s sun worship.

Satan has always had counterfeits for everything of God’s; Sunday is a man-made law not Gods law. “If you love Me, keep My Commandments”

God is not the sun, funadvice, He is the Creator of all and everything. We are His children and He loves us all and He desires that we live thru out eternity with Him.

Earth is like a school where we show whom we follow; God or Satan. God knows what each one of us thinks and does, so does our guardian angels. They write down everything we say and do. This record will be replayed at the judgment when God will decide where you belong; either in heaven or be destroyed in hell fire.

Those who go to the Lake of Fire will not burn eternally like some religions teach, but will be completely destroyed. Those who go to heaven will spend eternity learning from Jesus and the angels and living in the presence of God! What a wonderful day that will be!

If you have any doubt about God and His existence, please open your heart and seek Him, He will fill you with His peace and love. If you are earnest God will open your eyes and show you His truths. After that the Bible will be understood.

Your prayers and His word will draw you closer to Him. God will open your mind and you will see that you were living in a box before trapped by Satan. God sets you free!

Jesus is worth it. He is worth your time to find Him. Ask Jesus to show Himself to you, but when you do you have to be 100% earnest. He will answer all earnest prayers.

God bless you and your search.

WELL I THINK THAT GOD IS NOT A MAN BUT THE SON YOU KNOW THE

BIG BALL IN THE SKY

1. because everyone says that god is everywhere THE SUN SHINES EVERYWHERE ITS EVERYWHERE
2. because everyone says that god is the center of the world THE SUN IS IN THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE
3. because everyone says that god gives life THE SUN GROWS OUR FOOD FOR US TO LIVE
4. because everyone says that heaven is bright WELL IM SURE THE SUN IS PRETTY BRIGHT
5. because everyone says that when god comes back the sky is going to light up, there is going to be a big bang in the sky and the earth is going to shake and WALLLAHH you have god WELL THATS WHAT SCIENTISTS SAY WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE ASTEROID THATS GOING TO WIPE OUT THE WORLD AND THAT PRETTY MUCH COMES FROM THE SUN

but I really hope god is not the sun because thats just dumb preying to the sun???

the faith give you all the proof you want and do not be blind god is everywhere and anywhere and in every person even you that don’t believe in him ,look around and you will se